Resilient Live Rock? (threw it out 3 years ago) - Pic

[Brisc0]

Hey all, I am in the process of starting up a 40G Innovative Marine system but have been in this hobby a long time (with some breaks along the way). I will post a build thread at some point but if interested you can also find my current/past systems on my blog at http://reef.bushwilliams.com/ all of those were posted here at some point but its been going on 12 years for a few of them.

So, after my 2011 40G breeder failed, I tossed three five gallon buckets of Live Rock under the deck. In a nutshell I broke that system down after fighting Cirolanid Isopods, rampant hydroids, nuisance algae, and poor coral performance. All of my problems came in on the live rock. Apparently I dumped the buckets of rock under the deck with my brute trashcans, 40g breeder, sump, and stand. Kind of like a little graveyard for my old system.

So here is the interesting part (finally). I took the buckets of rock up to the garage, dumped about 2 inches of leaves off the top of the bucket (they sat down there for 3 years) and pulled out the rock. To my surprise, several pieces still had a briny smell to them and were sporting what looked like green coraline algae and a bit or purple. These have been outdoors, in buckets with no lids, and exposed to 110+ degree Arkansas Summers and double digit, Arkansas Winters. My first thought was that it was just stained but that unmistakable smell of the sea was heavy on those pieces that still supported what looks like green coraline. I also noticed that the Macro and Micro algae on some of the pieces were wet and translucent. Some even retained a hint of their old color which kind of concerned me. I find it extremely hard to believe that anything could be alive on this rock but my senses definitely tell me that its plausible. I had initially planned to get a bucket of RO/DI and a scrub brush and go to town on the rocks but given my discovery I broke out the power washer.

For two hours last night I blasted these rocks with the zero degree attachment on my washer. I blasted off tons of old coraline encrustation, old calcified hydroid or rock anemone tubes, aqua stick, macro and micro algae, dead sponge, coral, etc. Afterwards the rocks looked great but I was still surprised that the same few with that green coraline maintained their briny smell and green coloration.



Part of me is concerned about using this rock because it was so infested in my old system. However reason would have me put faith in the fact that I blasted the hell out of it with a power washer after which I visually inspected each piece and was satisfied that it cleaned up nice. There is also the fact that the rock has been out of water for three years. All of this plus the additional fact that its going into a new tank I decided to go for it. I am even a little hopeful that the brine scent is some indication of past life that will be beneficial in the cycle of the system and that if there is some crazy resilient species of coraline I can only benefit from it...

RIGHT?!

Not really asking anything here just looking for feedback from anyone who wants to discuss. Thanks and more posts to come.

[triggreef]

My suggestion would be to soak them in some fresh water with bleach. That will take out any questionable life. Non scented regular bleach. Then soak for a day in fresh water again, dump and refill again several times. Or toss them into a brook for a few days.

That is the only way I would re use any rock, or someone else's rock.

[whosurcaddie]

You shouldn't worry at all about using these pieces in a new setup. I have an old piece from a previous tank in my current setup that was outside for 4 years. Triggreef has it right though bleach the hell out of it and no life will remain.

[ca1ore]

Agreed. I recently rescued a bunch of rock that I tossed into my back woods five years ago. Power wash, soak in bleach, bake in the sun, soak in regular water ..... good to go!

[Brisc0]

I am actually hesitant to bleach it. I consider all of the systems where I dumped some "premium fiji/tonga/vanuatu/etc. live rock" into a tank and rolled with it. Yea it bit me once or twice but that stuff was air dropped and from the sea to my system in 5 days. In this case I assume that any surviving marine bacteria on the rock would help rather than hurt and its highly unlikely any organisms are still alive / able to reproduce. Maybe I am being somewhat naive about it but I think im going to start by adding it and seeing what happens. If it goes Jurassic Park on me and "life finds a way" its still a new system and I will nuke and pave it with bleach, if not maybe I will have something special I would have otherwise destroyed?

[Rutrag]

Originally Posted by Brisc0

I am actually hesitant to bleach it. I consider all of the systems where I dumped some "premium fiji/tonga/vanuatu/etc. live rock" into a tank and rolled with it. Yea it bit me once or twice but that stuff was air dropped and from the sea to my system in 5 days. In this case I assume that any surviving marine bacteria on the rock would help rather than hurt and its highly unlikely any organisms are still alive / able to reproduce. Maybe I am being somewhat naive about it but I think im going to start by adding it and seeing what happens. If it goes Jurassic Park on me and "life finds a way" its still a new system and I will nuke and pave it with bleach, if not maybe I will have something special I would have otherwise destroyed?

Not trying to be a jerk, but you're contradicting yourself. You said you had all kids of pests living in and on your rock in your old system, which is why you gave up. Then you say you believe some life may have survived in it, and you don't want to kill it with bleach.

If the rock was covered in leaves, that also leads me to believe that rainwater and any number of other organisms may have gotten into it as well that will at best be a nutrient source (i.e. Algae fertilizer) and at worst toxic to your new inhabitants.

I think you're best off bleaching the stuff from the get go to avoid future issues.

[Brisc0]

Not at all Rutrag I completely see your point. I am playing both sides of the argument as I haven't made up my mind yet. It's unanimous in this thread to bleach it. I was curious if I would get someone who said not to and posed a good reason.

[saf1]

I would just add them and cycle like normal. The cycle will be anywhere from 30 to 60 days anyway if not more. No reason to rush and I doubt anything major is left on those rocks. If nothing just put them out in the sun for a week or more and let nature take its course.

I would not use chemicals at all but that is just me.

[Savant]

seems like you have nothing to loose...if you see nasties dust off and nuk'em from orbit..it's the only way to be sure

[shesacharmer]

I'd give them an acid dip in white vinegar. I don't like using bleach.

[Mhay]

Originally Posted by shesacharmer

I'd give them an acid dip in white vinegar. I don't like using bleach.

I agree. Using bleach scares me. I vinegar washed mine and it worked great.

[Kairus]

Originally Posted by Mhay

I agree. Using bleach scares me. I vinegar washed mine and it worked great.

It shouldn't! Any regular old dechlorinator will take care of bleach no problem!

[coralsnaked]

Heat kills it all and leaves no residue except for the dead critters. Powerwash em. heat up good with hot water (outside for safety sake and don't inhale) and let cool and them power wash again.
Good to go.

[maddmaxx]

im with rutag on this with concerns about rain water. i would be concerned about high levels of phos leaching from the rock. you gotta think if leaves were able to pile up ontop of the rock inside the buckets, that water could easily get inside the bucket as well...

where i would be concerned is while the leaves decompose and then it rains getting into the bucket. youll have stagnant water with decaying leaves in it. then on hot summer days that shnasty water would then be absorbed by the rock and also evap. so you would have a continuous cycle of that rock absorbing all that nasty water locking it in every time it dries out...and this process was done countless times over 3yrs now..

[AcroporAddict]

You said it was under your deck. Over the time it was there, have you had pesticides or any other chemicals sprayed? Did you seal the deck with an oil based sealer, etc.? These would definitely be questions I would ask myself in addition to anything else I was concerned about.

[Fibinotchi]

Search cleaning live rock with muriatic acid. We did it and it worked good.

[Brisc0]

Originally Posted by AcroporAddict

You said it was under your deck. Over the time it was there, have you had pesticides or any other chemicals sprayed? Did you seal the deck with an oil based sealer, etc.? These would definitely be questions I would ask myself in addition to anything else I was concerned about.

Nope, nothing like that. I guess "the deck" is a poor description on my part. The deck in question is screened in with a roof on it. The buckets below definitely could have been misted in any one of a dozen mega storms we had in that three years but were generally dry and protected.

After the power washing the rocks all have that "out of the box" live rock smell (which used to be a good sign). Also there are a few hydroid coils on the rocks that the washer didn't blast off but no way those things survived 3 years in a bucket.

Think I'm going to go for it and keep an eye out for trouble.

[Bigfish246]

With all those problems, I would not even chance it. It may be overboard but I would do the whole song and dance. Boil them in water, bleach them, vinigar bathe, rinse or two them and dry dry dry! Then I would cycle them for a month just by themselves with NO water changes and see what pops up on the chem tests.

[Brisc0]

Okay, so I am capturing this discussion onto my blog @ https://reef.bushwilliams.com on the post: http://www.bushwilliams.com/40-gallo...ive-rock-thing so I can have a record of it when I am either kicking myself in the rear for not going with the majority or feeling good about going with my gut. But here is the thing and I am going to go all reef hugger / reef hippy on you for a minute here so bear with...

The life on these rocks three years ago ruined my tank. Or at least thats my story and im sticking to it. However, I know where these rocks have been (safely under my screen porch) and they have sat out long enough that nothing should be alive on them. I power washed them thoroughly. So much they all have the scent on the ocean coming out of them again. I realize that's part bacteria, part dead matter, likely some PO4 sources, etc. but in the end that's also thousands of years of life on the reef locked away at the core of those rocks. I am just not ready to nuke and pave that for the sake of doing it.

Its a new Innovative Marine 40G tank. I have the lights out and then little carbon/po4/filter pads that it came with installed until the cycle is complete. Once it is I will trash those pads and load up the media reactors. I intend to wait for a cycle, add some Garf Grunge and some life seeds from IPSF and then maybe in 12 weeks or so I will load up a shrimp and a fish.

If hydroids pop out of those rocks I am going to eat a boatload of crow and come back to let all of you know. In the meantime your continued opinions on this topic are always appreciated and I look forward to them.

Thanks,

Bush

[Cdogsailr]

Me, I'd ditch the rock and buy fresh. Why all the fuss, it's not a family heirloom?

[saf1]

Just let the tank cycle and mother nature will do her job. The rocks have been out for a long long time. You power washed them. They are clean within reason. You can probably add them, with substrate and quality water and start the cycle. We start talking about bleach, acid, boiling or anything else then there are other factors to be aware of and if not done so properly can actually hurt family members. This isn't to say it can't be done (because people here have done so).

A real tank cycle is going to take time anyway has it goes through the various stages and could very well take up to 90 days. If you try and rush the process even with quality rock chances are high you will fail. Anyone would fail mind you. No matter how boring the tank is just by looking at a empty box a process has started and you just have to wait it out.

On the other hand if 30 to 60 days you are finding your readings are not getting any better or you have stuff that doesn't make sense, well then it is cheaper and easier to remove the rock because nothing else is in there. Remember, it is a marathon and not a sprint

[whiteshark]

I'd get new rock. Start with all base rock if you are concerned about hitchhikers. Something about rock sitting out like that would make me really hesitant to ever use it again. I know others have with success, but is it really worth the hassle? I mean, after you bleach it or acid bath it it's basically base rock anyway...

One thing is for certain. There is NO WAY I would put it in the tank without bleach or an acid bath. There is no telling what's on that rock anymore from chemicals to critters.

[rounder45]

Originally Posted by Brisc0

Okay, so I am capturing this discussion onto my blog @ https://reef.bushwilliams.com on the post: http://www.bushwilliams.com/40-gallo...ive-rock-thing so I can have a record of it when I am either kicking myself in the rear for not going with the majority or feeling good about going with my gut. But here is the thing and I am going to go all reef hugger / reef hippy on you for a minute here so bear with...

The life on these rocks three years ago ruined my tank. Or at least thats my story and im sticking to it. However, I know where these rocks have been (safely under my screen porch) and they have sat out long enough that nothing should be alive on them. I power washed them thoroughly. So much they all have the scent on the ocean coming out of them again. I realize that's part bacteria, part dead matter, likely some PO4 sources, etc. but in the end that's also thousands of years of life on the reef locked away at the core of those rocks. I am just not ready to nuke and pave that for the sake of doing it.

Its a new Innovative Marine 40G tank. I have the lights out and then little carbon/po4/filter pads that it came with installed until the cycle is complete. Once it is I will trash those pads and load up the media reactors. I intend to wait for a cycle, add some Garf Grunge and some life seeds from IPSF and then maybe in 12 weeks or so I will load up a shrimp and a fish.

If hydroids pop out of those rocks I am going to eat a boatload of crow and come back to let all of you know. In the meantime your continued opinions on this topic are always appreciated and I look forward to them.

Thanks,

Bush

should be fine... personally I would have cycled in a rubbermaid for a month or two first. keep lights off and long cycle the rock(2 months). I would pull off all filtration as well. No point in limiting the bacteria from cleaning the dead life off the live rock.. carbon and PO4 control will limit bacterial growth by removing needed nutrients and that is not what you want...