Lighting questions

Amethyst · 08/16/2014, 01:36 PM

I have a small reef setup (20g long tank) that currently has 2 mushroom corals, a couple of pieces of Hollywood stunner chalice coral, a piece of montipora, a candy cane coral, and one that I forgot the name for but is branched, with pinkish polyps and bright orange mouths. All are quite small still, as I've been adding them over the last few months. I also have several varieties of macroalgae, live rock and live sand, and a bunch of several types of snails as clean-up crew. Eventually I may add a small fish or two.

I have been temporarily lighting the tank with the hoods from two 10g tanks with power compacts - mix of 50/50 bulbs and 6500-6700 bulbs. I am in the process of building a hood with a more permanent lighting setup, but before I start building I have questions.

My original plan was to use a total of 8 cfl bulbs, 10 - 15 watts each. To that end, I bought 2 three-bulb sockets and 1 two-bulb socket at my local hardware store, with the plan to put blue bulbs in two, 50/50 bulbs in 2 and 6500-6700 bulbs in 2, wired so that I could turn on the two blue first, then the 50/50, then the others and then reverse for turn off, so that it would simulate the natural daylight cycle in intensity and spectrum through the day. However, I can't find any all actinic blue bulbs that screw into regular sockets. Hence my first question:

Blue vs actinic blue - is there a difference? Is it just a matter of the blue color that penetrates farther into the water than the other parts of the spectrum, or is there something special about "actinic" lights other than the color? For instance, are the blue leds they sell for "glofish" tanks the same as the blue LEDs labeled "actinic" that are sold for reef tanks?

Second, the guy at the hardware store was concerned about the heat output of 8 bulbs. If I use LEDs for the blue and only 6 other bulbs I assume that will help cut down on heat. I also have heard that aluminum somehow disperses heat, as well as reflecting the light. If I use some thin aluminum reflectors, will that help? Will moving the lights farther from the water to help with heat defeat the purpose of having the wattage and spectrum I'm creating? Will I still need some type of fan or chiller? (By the way, I live in the northwest, and it usually doesn't go above 80F, so I don't have to worry much about ambient temps raising water temps, although we do have the occasional heat waves where temps go into the mid 80s or higher. Last week it was in the upper 80s to low 90s for a few days, and all of my tank thermometers were showing water temps in the low 80s, but that is unusual.)

Finally, what is PAR, and how does one measure it? I noticed someone using a light meter to measure PAR in another post. Is there any other way to estimate PAR?

I'm also considering moving the whole setup to my 29g tank, which would mean the light will have more water to penetrate, although the width/depth measurements would be the same.

Any and all feedback/advice/information graciously accepted. Thanks in advance.

Amethyst · 08/20/2014, 04:14 AM

OK, so maybe my post was too long and nobody read it all, so here's the shorter version:

Are "actinic" LED bulbs different in some significant way from the blue LED bulbs sold as "glofish" lights or "moonlight" lights?

What is PAR (does it stand for something?) and is there a way to measure it without a light meter, or some way to adequately estimate it?

alton · 08/20/2014, 06:05 AM

Take your CFL stuff back and go in a different direction. Replacement lamps every 8 months will kill your pocket book

DDon · 08/20/2014, 06:51 AM

Actually did read your original post and started a response but for some reason didn't post.
Anyhow...
PAR is photosynthetically Active Radiation and you really need a meter to measure it. I believe you can get a sensor and use a multi meter. Never measured it myself but would be nice. Don't think you can really estimate unless you are comparing like systems.

I think you struggle to find the correct bulbs or get an adequate amount of light for corals using compact fluorescent bulbs. I have used power compacts but never the spiral cfl bulbs used for house lighting.

Hudzon · 08/20/2014, 12:07 PM

Please do yourself a big, big favor and go a different route, @ only 30" X 12" you can easily find a used 24" T5HO setup on the cheap heck you could even go new and get a Aqua Japan 4X 24"Inch T5HO for around $80.00
Than you can easily get tried and true bulbs for it such as ATI Blue+ Coral+ AquaBlue Special

Amethyst · 08/22/2014, 12:54 AM

Thanks for the input. I guess I hadn't really realized that if I am using 8 bulbs, at roughly $10 each, I could probably buy a decent light for the cost of one set of replacement bulbs. Duh. I do like DIY stuff though, so often the first thing I think of is how can I make this from what I have or can get inexpensively?

I actually have, at the moment, two 30" light strips like those Aqueon makes that aren't working. Perhaps I could retrofit each of those to hold 2 T5 HO bulbs each? But wouldn't the cost of replacing those bulbs be as much or more than the cfls? Would 4 T5 HO bulbs be enough light? How long do the HO bulbs last, on average?

I know LEDs are more expensive upfront, but do they last long enough to make it cost effective in the long run?

Also, I'm in the process of tearing down a 29g tank, and have thought of moving the reef to that tank - would the extra depth make enough of a difference in lighting that I would need something different if I do move to the 29g?

Ztrain · 08/23/2014, 07:15 PM

Yes Blue is 470nm, Royal Blue is 450nm, and Actinic is around 420nm. It all depends on what your corals and photosynthetic residence are looking for. Warm white LEDs such as 6500k and lower are great for grow lights for planted aquariums and growing algae. Reefs generally have stuff that's more attuned for deeper water that has filtered out all the red light and your looking for a 10k+ ish white.

GroktheCube · 08/23/2014, 07:22 PM

If you're into DIY and you're considering LED anyway, look into DIY LEDs. Far less expensive and usually better results than expensive off-the-shelf fixtures.

Amethyst · 08/23/2014, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GroktheCube

If you're into DIY and you're considering LED anyway, look into DIY LEDs. Far less expensive and usually better results than expensive off-the-shelf fixtures.

Sounds like a good option. However, I don't know how watts in LED compares to watts in fluorescent, so I don't know what I need in the way of total wattage of LEDs. I know I need a combo of the bright white high K and the blues. Any suggestions on total wattage?

I've noticed lately that the stores are carrying LED bulbs that screw into regular sockets. Some are shaped like regular bulbs, some are that shape on one dimension, but flat, maybe 1/2" or so top to bottom. Since I already bought the hardware for an 8-bulb hood, could I use that type of LED? I suppose at least partly that depends on what kind of color spectrum I can find in the LED bulbs. Seems like if I could find what I need, the bulbs that are shaped like regular bulbs only squashed would be a good choice because they would take up less room vertically. Any ideas about this?

08/16/2014, 01:36 PM	#1
Amethyst Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Near Seattle Posts: 63	Lighting questions I have a small reef setup (20g long tank) that currently has 2 mushroom corals, a couple of pieces of Hollywood stunner chalice coral, a piece of montipora, a candy cane coral, and one that I forgot the name for but is branched, with pinkish polyps and bright orange mouths. All are quite small still, as I've been adding them over the last few months. I also have several varieties of macroalgae, live rock and live sand, and a bunch of several types of snails as clean-up crew. Eventually I may add a small fish or two. I have been temporarily lighting the tank with the hoods from two 10g tanks with power compacts - mix of 50/50 bulbs and 6500-6700 bulbs. I am in the process of building a hood with a more permanent lighting setup, but before I start building I have questions. My original plan was to use a total of 8 cfl bulbs, 10 - 15 watts each. To that end, I bought 2 three-bulb sockets and 1 two-bulb socket at my local hardware store, with the plan to put blue bulbs in two, 50/50 bulbs in 2 and 6500-6700 bulbs in 2, wired so that I could turn on the two blue first, then the 50/50, then the others and then reverse for turn off, so that it would simulate the natural daylight cycle in intensity and spectrum through the day. However, I can't find any all actinic blue bulbs that screw into regular sockets. Hence my first question: Blue vs actinic blue - is there a difference? Is it just a matter of the blue color that penetrates farther into the water than the other parts of the spectrum, or is there something special about "actinic" lights other than the color? For instance, are the blue leds they sell for "glofish" tanks the same as the blue LEDs labeled "actinic" that are sold for reef tanks? Second, the guy at the hardware store was concerned about the heat output of 8 bulbs. If I use LEDs for the blue and only 6 other bulbs I assume that will help cut down on heat. I also have heard that aluminum somehow disperses heat, as well as reflecting the light. If I use some thin aluminum reflectors, will that help? Will moving the lights farther from the water to help with heat defeat the purpose of having the wattage and spectrum I'm creating? Will I still need some type of fan or chiller? (By the way, I live in the northwest, and it usually doesn't go above 80F, so I don't have to worry much about ambient temps raising water temps, although we do have the occasional heat waves where temps go into the mid 80s or higher. Last week it was in the upper 80s to low 90s for a few days, and all of my tank thermometers were showing water temps in the low 80s, but that is unusual.) Finally, what is PAR, and how does one measure it? I noticed someone using a light meter to measure PAR in another post. Is there any other way to estimate PAR? I'm also considering moving the whole setup to my 29g tank, which would mean the light will have more water to penetrate, although the width/depth measurements would be the same. Any and all feedback/advice/information graciously accepted. Thanks in advance.

08/22/2014, 12:54 AM	#6
Amethyst Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Near Seattle Posts: 63	Thanks for the input. I guess I hadn't really realized that if I am using 8 bulbs, at roughly $10 each, I could probably buy a decent light for the cost of one set of replacement bulbs. Duh. I do like DIY stuff though, so often the first thing I think of is how can I make this from what I have or can get inexpensively? I actually have, at the moment, two 30" light strips like those Aqueon makes that aren't working. Perhaps I could retrofit each of those to hold 2 T5 HO bulbs each? But wouldn't the cost of replacing those bulbs be as much or more than the cfls? Would 4 T5 HO bulbs be enough light? How long do the HO bulbs last, on average? I know LEDs are more expensive upfront, but do they last long enough to make it cost effective in the long run? Also, I'm in the process of tearing down a 29g tank, and have thought of moving the reef to that tank - would the extra depth make enough of a difference in lighting that I would need something different if I do move to the 29g? Last edited by Amethyst; 08/22/2014 at 01:00 AM.

08/20/2014, 04:14 AM	#2
Amethyst Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Near Seattle Posts: 63	OK, so maybe my post was too long and nobody read it all, so here's the shorter version: Are "actinic" LED bulbs different in some significant way from the blue LED bulbs sold as "glofish" lights or "moonlight" lights? What is PAR (does it stand for something?) and is there a way to measure it without a light meter, or some way to adequately estimate it?

08/20/2014, 06:05 AM	#3
alton Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Zuehl, Texas Posts: 4,460	Take your CFL stuff back and go in a different direction. Replacement lamps every 8 months will kill your pocket book

08/20/2014, 06:51 AM	#4
DDon Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Location: Brentwood,CA Posts: 776	Actually did read your original post and started a response but for some reason didn't post. Anyhow... PAR is photosynthetically Active Radiation and you really need a meter to measure it. I believe you can get a sensor and use a multi meter. Never measured it myself but would be nice. Don't think you can really estimate unless you are comparing like systems. I think you struggle to find the correct bulbs or get an adequate amount of light for corals using compact fluorescent bulbs. I have used power compacts but never the spiral cfl bulbs used for house lighting.

08/20/2014, 12:07 PM	#5
Hudzon Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 267	Please do yourself a big, big favor and go a different route, @ only 30" X 12" you can easily find a used 24" T5HO setup on the cheap heck you could even go new and get a Aqua Japan 4X 24"Inch T5HO for around $80.00 Than you can easily get tried and true bulbs for it such as ATI Blue+ Coral+ AquaBlue Special

08/23/2014, 07:15 PM	#7
Ztrain Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2014 Posts: 327	Yes Blue is 470nm, Royal Blue is 450nm, and Actinic is around 420nm. It all depends on what your corals and photosynthetic residence are looking for. Warm white LEDs such as 6500k and lower are great for grow lights for planted aquariums and growing algae. Reefs generally have stuff that's more attuned for deeper water that has filtered out all the red light and your looking for a 10k+ ish white.

08/23/2014, 07:22 PM	#8
GroktheCube Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Posts: 2,063	If you're into DIY and you're considering LED anyway, look into DIY LEDs. Far less expensive and usually better results than expensive off-the-shelf fixtures.