120 gallon tank in 2nd floor apartment

oshanickreef · 08/26/2014, 05:15 PM

So i am buying an apartment. the building is two floors (2 separate apartments) and i will be living on the second floor. the building was built in the mid 1950s and the floor joists are 2 x 8 inches with some electrical and plumbing holes (im not sure how many... but that is what my neighbor below me said). anyways i want to put a 120 there with a sump (probably 50 gals max). the dimensions ate 48Long x 20High x 28Depth. I love this tank, it is glass and has a steel stand. My floor joists are 16 inches on center and i will be putting the tank on a load bearing wall where the joists run perpendicular to the tank to cover as many joists as possible.

I made the mistake of bringing this up with my neighbor and he is kinda freaking out about it which is stressing me out. I can distribute the weight more by putting 2x6s down that are longer than the tank (up to 11 feet in length).

the tank should weigh a max of 1600 after everything (includes tank weight, stand weight, rock, saltwater, filtration stuff etc.

now for the responses on my situation. go! lol

thanks in advance.

oshanickreef · 08/26/2014, 05:18 PM

also i currently run a 60 cube with a 33 gallon sump... so that is 93 gallons which roughly weeighs 800 lbs... it sits on a 24 inch x 24 inch stand and i am positive that that is more weight per square foot than the thank im looking at buying... so i may be in a pickle

gbru316 · 08/26/2014, 05:39 PM

For absolute peace of mind, get a structural engineer to take a look. Don't trust a bunch of faux-experts on the net.

oshanickreef · 08/26/2014, 05:41 PM

haha i called 3 structural engineers and they all said that the weight limit is 70 lbs per square foot. the tank will probably put out 150 per square foot before i do any extra sheet under for more support

FDdragon · 08/26/2014, 06:07 PM

that is a lot of weight. being on top of a load bearing wall adds strength. having the joists spaced 16" o.c. also makes it stronger. the thing that sucks is that it is in such a small area.

the info the engineers said is probably for new construction...and who knows what your floors actually look like underneath. if you think about it, your floor already has the plywood to distribute weight. so adding another layer might not do as much as you hope it does. yes it will help some but have it extend a little past the dimensions of your stand.

those are my thoughts.

oshanickreef · 08/26/2014, 06:08 PM

ya i was going to have it extend out to double the width of the stand. paint it and make it look nice. it will also help with leaks cuz im going to seal it.

gbru316 · 08/27/2014, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nickstl

haha i called 3 structural engineers and they all said that the weight limit is 70 lbs per square foot. the tank will probably put out 150 per square foot before i do any extra sheet under for more support

They really need to personally look at your situation before they're able to give a recommendation.

Fwiw, your neighbor is right to be concerned. Many (most?) that put large tanks on floors above the basement end up building support in the basement to support the weight of the tank on the floor above.

If you went ahead with it and had a problem, you could be liable for damages and/or injury that results.

kw22 · 08/27/2014, 07:15 AM

I wouldn't do it.

Pife · 08/27/2014, 07:34 AM

I've seen 120's in house trailers. Just saying.

oshanickreef · 08/27/2014, 07:36 AM

im going to rip up the carpet and have someone come in and completely reinforce the flooring so i dont even have to worry about it... also then i am going to make a built in stand for this custom tank. its going to be really cool when all said and done.. and probably expensive. the things i do for this hobby!

scumbag_gli · 08/27/2014, 07:38 AM

Now Im all worried about my tank I just set up on my second floor loft...fuuuuudge

gbru316 · 08/27/2014, 07:50 AM

House trailers probably have a stronger floor, since they need to be moved and all.

It's your call. I wouldn't do it without professional advice, but if you're comfortable with the possible outcomes, go for it.

tzylak · 08/27/2014, 08:54 AM

Hmm, built in 50's, 2x8" joists. . . Any termites or dry rot?
Before doing too much planning or work consider doing a cheap test:
1 Get several of those cheap tubs (storage containers) or trash cans at Home Depot.
2 Place them where the tank is to be.
3 Fill them with water of comparable WEIGHT of the system (water + rocks + etc.). Yeah, 1600 is about right.
4 Measure the distance from floor to the ceiling in the MIDDLE of the room (before and after)
If it sags more than half an inch then that might be your best answer.
If pursuing with the tank, consider adjustable leveling devices for the tank, even when full, as the floor might progressively sag in the first several weeks.
This might be obvious but an additional support of 2x6" that's laying flat won't do much good. -It has to be 2" flat and 6" vertical . . .
Project CONFIDENCE and some scientific backing (the test and/or expert opinion) to your neighbor to soothe him, otherwise he might be your biggest problem. . . :-).
Good luck to you!!!!
Tom

Shawn O · 08/27/2014, 09:19 AM

Would your neighbor object to you paying to have the walls and ceiling of their apartment (under your tank) beefed up to hold the weight? Possibly in the basement (if existing) below that as well?

Not quite the same scenario but, my brother bought his house (circa 1910) and had to place two lally columns (with a couple 2x8s on top, run perpendicular to the floor joists) in his basement to support his 1300lb fire-proof gun safe in his dining room. When we were moving it in we could feel the floor sagging as we went across it with the safe on a appliance dolly. We felt a whole lot better once it was on the supported area.

You may be best off waiting on using such a big tank until you can buy a first floor unit that you can easily support from beneath.

tzylak · 08/27/2014, 09:21 AM

Oops, forgot.
Part 2 of the test is to get your family into the middle of the room and jump together. See how much the water sloshes. If it is reasonable then invite the neighbor to see for himself.
-One time a while back, during a New Year party, the water was splashing out of my 20g tank onto the floor. . .

oshanickreef · 08/27/2014, 09:23 AM

ya this is all so crazy... im goign to beef up the floor regardless... we will see how this pans out

Shawn O · 08/27/2014, 09:32 AM

At the very least you could build a raised platform below the tank area out of 2x8s (with the joists perpendicular to the floor joists below it) and lag it to the wall studs on any side that touches the wall. Top it with a couple layers of 3/4" plywood as well. It could become an architectural feature of the room, as sunken living rooms became. Just a step up from the rest of the room. Anyway, just a thought that it may help you.

oshanickreef · 08/27/2014, 09:34 AM

yes thanks... i want to do this without messing with anythign in the neighbors place below ... but im starting to think that may not be an option...

Jimbo530 · 08/27/2014, 10:42 AM

as far as reinforcing walls and putting in supports this can be time consuming and expensive possible but i would not bother on a rented property. you could also build a stepped stair design stand to spread the wait over more floor space. myself i would avoid this whole thing and find another apartment before setting up the aquarium. good luck

08/26/2014, 05:15 PM	#1
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	120 gallon tank in 2nd floor apartment So i am buying an apartment. the building is two floors (2 separate apartments) and i will be living on the second floor. the building was built in the mid 1950s and the floor joists are 2 x 8 inches with some electrical and plumbing holes (im not sure how many... but that is what my neighbor below me said). anyways i want to put a 120 there with a sump (probably 50 gals max). the dimensions ate 48Long x 20High x 28Depth. I love this tank, it is glass and has a steel stand. My floor joists are 16 inches on center and i will be putting the tank on a load bearing wall where the joists run perpendicular to the tank to cover as many joists as possible. I made the mistake of bringing this up with my neighbor and he is kinda freaking out about it which is stressing me out. I can distribute the weight more by putting 2x6s down that are longer than the tank (up to 11 feet in length). the tank should weigh a max of 1600 after everything (includes tank weight, stand weight, rock, saltwater, filtration stuff etc. now for the responses on my situation. go! lol thanks in advance. __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/26/2014, 05:18 PM	#2
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	also i currently run a 60 cube with a 33 gallon sump... so that is 93 gallons which roughly weeighs 800 lbs... it sits on a 24 inch x 24 inch stand and i am positive that that is more weight per square foot than the thank im looking at buying... so i may be in a pickle __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/26/2014, 05:41 PM	#4
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	haha i called 3 structural engineers and they all said that the weight limit is 70 lbs per square foot. the tank will probably put out 150 per square foot before i do any extra sheet under for more support __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/26/2014, 06:08 PM	#6
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	ya i was going to have it extend out to double the width of the stand. paint it and make it look nice. it will also help with leaks cuz im going to seal it. __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/27/2014, 07:15 AM	#8
kw22 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Éire (Republic of Ireland) Posts: 435	I wouldn't do it. __________________ If you judge a fish by its ability to climb a tree,it will spend its whole life thinking that it is stupid. Current Tank Info: All freshwater at the moment.Hoping to set up a marine tank in the future.

08/26/2014, 05:39 PM	#3
gbru316 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lancaster,PA Posts: 1,720	For absolute peace of mind, get a structural engineer to take a look. Don't trust a bunch of faux-experts on the net.

08/26/2014, 06:07 PM	#5
FDdragon Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2013 Posts: 85	that is a lot of weight. being on top of a load bearing wall adds strength. having the joists spaced 16" o.c. also makes it stronger. the thing that sucks is that it is in such a small area. the info the engineers said is probably for new construction...and who knows what your floors actually look like underneath. if you think about it, your floor already has the plywood to distribute weight. so adding another layer might not do as much as you hope it does. yes it will help some but have it extend a little past the dimensions of your stand. those are my thoughts.

08/27/2014, 07:34 AM	#9
Pife Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Posts: 7,408	I've seen 120's in house trailers. Just saying. __________________ Brandon I'm not saying let's get rid of all the stupid people.* I'm just saying let's remove all the warning labels and let the problem work itself out. Current Tank Info: 150g DT plumbed to an 80g frag tank and 220g sump in the basement. ~6-MP40s ~ 12 ATI powered t5s ~ Reefbrites and Radions supplementing ~ Custom GEO Skimmer ~ GEO CA Reactor 6x24~ Iwaki 70 Return ~

08/27/2014, 07:36 AM	#10
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	im going to rip up the carpet and have someone come in and completely reinforce the flooring so i dont even have to worry about it... also then i am going to make a built in stand for this custom tank. its going to be really cool when all said and done.. and probably expensive. the things i do for this hobby! __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/27/2014, 07:38 AM	#11
scumbag_gli Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: CLE & AKR, Ohio Posts: 231	Now Im all worried about my tank I just set up on my second floor loft...fuuuuudge __________________ Hello, my name is bruce. Actually its Derek, enjoy my stupid antics. Current Tank Info: 180 Gal Display. Fish Room under construction.

08/27/2014, 07:50 AM	#12
gbru316 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Lancaster,PA Posts: 1,720	House trailers probably have a stronger floor, since they need to be moved and all. It's your call. I wouldn't do it without professional advice, but if you're comfortable with the possible outcomes, go for it.

08/27/2014, 08:54 AM	#13
tzylak Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 457	Hmm, built in 50's, 2x8" joists. . . Any termites or dry rot? Before doing too much planning or work consider doing a cheap test: 1 Get several of those cheap tubs (storage containers) or trash cans at Home Depot. 2 Place them where the tank is to be. 3 Fill them with water of comparable WEIGHT of the system (water + rocks + etc.). Yeah, 1600 is about right. 4 Measure the distance from floor to the ceiling in the MIDDLE of the room (before and after) If it sags more than half an inch then that might be your best answer. If pursuing with the tank, consider adjustable leveling devices for the tank, even when full, as the floor might progressively sag in the first several weeks. This might be obvious but an additional support of 2x6" that's laying flat won't do much good. -It has to be 2" flat and 6" vertical . . . Project CONFIDENCE and some scientific backing (the test and/or expert opinion) to your neighbor to soothe him, otherwise he might be your biggest problem. . . :-). Good luck to you!!!! Tom

08/27/2014, 09:19 AM	#14
Shawn O Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 1,474	Would your neighbor object to you paying to have the walls and ceiling of their apartment (under your tank) beefed up to hold the weight? Possibly in the basement (if existing) below that as well? Not quite the same scenario but, my brother bought his house (circa 1910) and had to place two lally columns (with a couple 2x8s on top, run perpendicular to the floor joists) in his basement to support his 1300lb fire-proof gun safe in his dining room. When we were moving it in we could feel the floor sagging as we went across it with the safe on a appliance dolly. We felt a whole lot better once it was on the supported area. You may be best off waiting on using such a big tank until you can buy a first floor unit that you can easily support from beneath.

08/27/2014, 09:21 AM	#15
tzylak Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Oceanside, CA Posts: 457	Oops, forgot. Part 2 of the test is to get your family into the middle of the room and jump together. See how much the water sloshes. If it is reasonable then invite the neighbor to see for himself. -One time a while back, during a New Year party, the water was splashing out of my 20g tank onto the floor. . .

08/27/2014, 09:23 AM	#16
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	ya this is all so crazy... im goign to beef up the floor regardless... we will see how this pans out __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/27/2014, 09:32 AM	#17
Shawn O Registered Member Join Date: May 2014 Location: People's Communist Republic of Massachusetts Posts: 1,474	At the very least you could build a raised platform below the tank area out of 2x8s (with the joists perpendicular to the floor joists below it) and lag it to the wall studs on any side that touches the wall. Top it with a couple layers of 3/4" plywood as well. It could become an architectural feature of the room, as sunken living rooms became. Just a step up from the rest of the room. Anyway, just a thought that it may help you.

08/27/2014, 09:34 AM	#18
oshanickreef Registered Member Join Date: May 2013 Location: Saint Louis, MO Posts: 2,367	yes thanks... i want to do this without messing with anythign in the neighbors place below ... but im starting to think that may not be an option... __________________ Mixed Peaceful Reef :) ~140 Gallons of Water Non-agro fish Instagram: Oshanickreef

08/27/2014, 10:42 AM	#19
Jimbo530 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2014 Posts: 23	as far as reinforcing walls and putting in supports this can be time consuming and expensive possible but i would not bother on a rented property. you could also build a stepped stair design stand to spread the wait over more floor space. myself i would avoid this whole thing and find another apartment before setting up the aquarium. good luck