150 gallon tank + shaky floor = Very Nervous! HELP?

mustangtodd97 · 09/15/2014, 06:33 AM

My friend recently aquired a 150 gallon salt water aquaruim to replace his 55 gallon biocube, which will be going to me. We set the 150 tank up in his house yesterday on the main floor, very near, above, and parallel to 1 of 2 steel i-beams that run near the center of his home. The tank is sitting on a hardwood floor. When you jump slightly in the center of the room the tank is in, you can see it causes significant waves in the tank water (kinda like a trampoline effect, most flex in center of room). Obviously this is not a good sign! Floor jacks are not an option because he has a fully finished basement below. The main concern is the tank cracking or breaking over time due to this situation... Has anyone else experienced this? I'd like to hear all sides... Possible solutions, survivals, and catastrophes. Thanks you!

DrBoxedWine · 09/15/2014, 07:13 AM

Can u make the tank perpendicular to the beams? Do you have any structural engineer friends who will work for beer?

DrBoxedWine · 09/15/2014, 07:14 AM

I'm not an engineer so take this with a grain of salt, but i'd be concerned as well... That's a lot of weight on one beam

ca1ore · 09/15/2014, 08:16 AM

Not sure you are going to get much useful advice from an online forum, no matter how experienced the replies. If your friend is really nervous then get a structural engineer in to provide an informed opinion. I assume the tank is against the room wall, but is it a weight bearing wall? If it is not, I'd not put a big tank there.

Sk8r · 09/15/2014, 08:31 AM

A simple fix might entail going into the ceiling of the finished basement and providing some bracing, such as nailing short stubs between the floor joists in that area, and bolting some reinforcement to the joists the thing may be sitting on. The i-beams are not going to let it collapse, but the waviness is a bit worrisome. Replacing some ceiling tiles is not half as troublesome as dealing with a tank leak. I don't think a fix will be expensive, but it certainly might need a skilled carpenter---I've seen houses with quaking floors---had one, and a library on that second floor, with exactly that kind of I-beam support; but if you have people holding a party up there, or just walking back and forth, a live weight of water could pose, as you fear, a problem. The fix should not need too much money, but probably undertaking it now would be a good thing.

SGT_York · 09/15/2014, 10:23 AM

Vibrations will be normal, shaking not so.

Again no engineer will be able to help much without looking at the drawings.

Concern with the tank, tank's don't fail, stands fail which is realized by the cracking of the tank. Provided you have a good overbuilt stand the stand will just "bounce" off the hardwood the tank will be fine, if your stand isn't the greatest then the floor will complicate the issue.

Possible solutions:
engineered approach to redesign the supports, could be one to four grand.
Move the tank near the basement support columns, free $$$.
improve the stand, possibly steel ~<1K

Steel by nature will flex it should not bounce.

DrBoxedWine · 09/15/2014, 11:46 AM

Yeah if that's the only spot it can go, get an engineer out there to have a look. We can all sit here and speculate all day, but a trained person needs to have a look. I had an engineer come out and I was very surprised at how big of a tank he said we could safely have. Please of mind is very nice when you have 150 gallons of saltwater sitting in your house.

gone fishin · 09/15/2014, 11:50 AM

Since the basement is finished why not put it there. No worries then.

bigswaug · 09/15/2014, 09:04 PM

Fwiw... I set up a 150 from a 65 and then thought about the weight after. the tank is also running across a 2x6 joist. ok. there is also a step down from upstairs right next to tank. so after it was set up, every time I came downstairs and stepped on floor next to tank I got a ripple. I started to worry... a lot. I started to research weight loads of joists and floors, look up methods and all that. I ended up going in basement and moving drop ceiling and seen that the joist that runs parallel underneath tank was bowing about 1/2". I then used a floor jack to relieve pressure on joist pushing up with a 4x4 beam. I proceeded to "sister" 5 inch strips of plywood to each side of joist held with 5/8" bolts all the way down joist.. also added more cross bracing.. that helped a lot. I eventually added a temporary pole just to make sure. basement is finished but had to only remove one ceiling tile. I put a 45 lb plate underneath it to disperse weight. lmk if u want pics.

DrBoxedWine · 09/15/2014, 10:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigswaug

Fwiw... I set up a 150 from a 65 and then thought about the weight after. the tank is also running across a 2x6 joist. ok. there is also a step down from upstairs right next to tank. so after it was set up, every time I came downstairs and stepped on floor next to tank I got a ripple. I started to worry... a lot. I started to research weight loads of joists and floors, look up methods and all that. I ended up going in basement and moving drop ceiling and seen that the joist that runs parallel underneath tank was bowing about 1/2". I then used a floor jack to relieve pressure on joist pushing up with a 4x4 beam. I proceeded to "sister" 5 inch strips of plywood to each side of joist held with 5/8" bolts all the way down joist.. also added more cross bracing.. that helped a lot. I eventually added a temporary pole just to make sure. basement is finished but had to only remove one ceiling tile. I put a 45 lb plate underneath it to disperse weight. lmk if u want pics.

I'd be interested in seeing a picture of this if you have it!

bigswaug · 09/16/2014, 08:30 AM

Sure.. I'll get those up soon

bigswaug · 09/23/2014, 06:08 AM

Alright so Im sorry for the delay.. I bought a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood, had them rip it into 7" strips. I used liquid nails to attach sheets to joist and clamped in place. I had to mod a few spots for cords etc running thru joist. I used 5/8" bolts and used 2 at each end and 1 every 8 inches down the board. I also cut some more cross bracing and added for extra support. This whole time I had a floor jack pushing up pressure to joist with a 4x4 to straighten joist because it was sagging a bit. I only added the pole a couple months later because even though floor was considerably stiffer, there was a stairway right next to tank and steppen on the floor off of steps right next to tank so took extreme measure to be sure. Hope this helps!

Bryopsis · 09/23/2014, 06:20 AM

Leave the floorjack there!
Put a couple hanging plants on it or something lol...

DrBoxedWine · 09/24/2014, 06:43 AM

Looks good, Thanks for uploading those!

bigswaug · 09/24/2014, 09:47 AM

No problem

09/15/2014, 06:33 AM	#1
mustangtodd97 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 1	150 gallon tank + shaky floor = Very Nervous! HELP? My friend recently aquired a 150 gallon salt water aquaruim to replace his 55 gallon biocube, which will be going to me. We set the 150 tank up in his house yesterday on the main floor, very near, above, and parallel to 1 of 2 steel i-beams that run near the center of his home. The tank is sitting on a hardwood floor. When you jump slightly in the center of the room the tank is in, you can see it causes significant waves in the tank water (kinda like a trampoline effect, most flex in center of room). Obviously this is not a good sign! Floor jacks are not an option because he has a fully finished basement below. The main concern is the tank cracking or breaking over time due to this situation... Has anyone else experienced this? I'd like to hear all sides... Possible solutions, survivals, and catastrophes. Thanks you! Last edited by mustangtodd97; 09/15/2014 at 06:49 AM.

09/15/2014, 08:16 AM	#4
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	Not sure you are going to get much useful advice from an online forum, no matter how experienced the replies. If your friend is really nervous then get a structural engineer in to provide an informed opinion. I assume the tank is against the room wall, but is it a weight bearing wall? If it is not, I'd not put a big tank there. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

09/15/2014, 08:31 AM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	A simple fix might entail going into the ceiling of the finished basement and providing some bracing, such as nailing short stubs between the floor joists in that area, and bolting some reinforcement to the joists the thing may be sitting on. The i-beams are not going to let it collapse, but the waviness is a bit worrisome. Replacing some ceiling tiles is not half as troublesome as dealing with a tank leak. I don't think a fix will be expensive, but it certainly might need a skilled carpenter---I've seen houses with quaking floors---had one, and a library on that second floor, with exactly that kind of I-beam support; but if you have people holding a party up there, or just walking back and forth, a live weight of water could pose, as you fear, a problem. The fix should not need too much money, but probably undertaking it now would be a good thing. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

09/15/2014, 11:50 AM	#8
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	Since the basement is finished why not put it there. No worries then. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

09/16/2014, 08:30 AM	#11
bigswaug Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 115	Sure.. I'll get those up soon __________________ OCD powerhead tweaker... Ive had it just right about a thousand times..... Current Tank Info: 150g rimless

09/15/2014, 07:13 AM	#2
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	Can u make the tank perpendicular to the beams? Do you have any structural engineer friends who will work for beer?

09/15/2014, 07:14 AM	#3
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	I'm not an engineer so take this with a grain of salt, but i'd be concerned as well... That's a lot of weight on one beam

09/15/2014, 10:23 AM	#6
SGT_York Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2012 Location: Washington State Posts: 1,746	Vibrations will be normal, shaking not so. Again no engineer will be able to help much without looking at the drawings. Concern with the tank, tank's don't fail, stands fail which is realized by the cracking of the tank. Provided you have a good overbuilt stand the stand will just "bounce" off the hardwood the tank will be fine, if your stand isn't the greatest then the floor will complicate the issue. Possible solutions: engineered approach to redesign the supports, could be one to four grand. Move the tank near the basement support columns, free $$$. improve the stand, possibly steel ~<1K Steel by nature will flex it should not bounce.

09/15/2014, 11:46 AM	#7
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	Yeah if that's the only spot it can go, get an engineer out there to have a look. We can all sit here and speculate all day, but a trained person needs to have a look. I had an engineer come out and I was very surprised at how big of a tank he said we could safely have. Please of mind is very nice when you have 150 gallons of saltwater sitting in your house.

09/15/2014, 09:04 PM	#9
bigswaug Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 115	Fwiw... I set up a 150 from a 65 and then thought about the weight after. the tank is also running across a 2x6 joist. ok. there is also a step down from upstairs right next to tank. so after it was set up, every time I came downstairs and stepped on floor next to tank I got a ripple. I started to worry... a lot. I started to research weight loads of joists and floors, look up methods and all that. I ended up going in basement and moving drop ceiling and seen that the joist that runs parallel underneath tank was bowing about 1/2". I then used a floor jack to relieve pressure on joist pushing up with a 4x4 beam. I proceeded to "sister" 5 inch strips of plywood to each side of joist held with 5/8" bolts all the way down joist.. also added more cross bracing.. that helped a lot. I eventually added a temporary pole just to make sure. basement is finished but had to only remove one ceiling tile. I put a 45 lb plate underneath it to disperse weight. lmk if u want pics.

09/23/2014, 06:08 AM	#12
bigswaug Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 115	Alright so Im sorry for the delay.. I bought a 4x8 sheet of 3/4" plywood, had them rip it into 7" strips. I used liquid nails to attach sheets to joist and clamped in place. I had to mod a few spots for cords etc running thru joist. I used 5/8" bolts and used 2 at each end and 1 every 8 inches down the board. I also cut some more cross bracing and added for extra support. This whole time I had a floor jack pushing up pressure to joist with a 4x4 to straighten joist because it was sagging a bit. I only added the pole a couple months later because even though floor was considerably stiffer, there was a stairway right next to tank and steppen on the floor off of steps right next to tank so took extreme measure to be sure. Hope this helps! __________________ OCD powerhead tweaker... Ive had it just right about a thousand times..... Current Tank Info: 150g rimless

09/23/2014, 06:20 AM	#13
Bryopsis Registered Member. Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 275	Leave the floorjack there! Put a couple hanging plants on it or something lol...

09/24/2014, 06:43 AM	#14
DrBoxedWine Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: Denver, CO Posts: 899	Looks good, Thanks for uploading those!

09/24/2014, 09:47 AM	#15
bigswaug Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Location: Canton, MI Posts: 115	No problem __________________ OCD powerhead tweaker... Ive had it just right about a thousand times..... Current Tank Info: 150g rimless