Favia slowly showing guts from mouth

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 06:33 AM

Hello,

So basically I have a mixed reef tank I setup at the beginning of this year.

Size ~80 gal with 15 gal sump/refugium
Nitrates 0,
Phosphates ~0,
CA, Little on the high side
Salinity 1.025
Temp 25.7 C

My inhabitants are about half SPS Acropora on the left side of the tank and on the right in the back I have a beautiful red/green/purple favia. Its about 10 inches across at the widest point.

All of my corals are doing quite well with good polyp extension and coloration. The issue is my favia has started putting out its guts a couple polyps a day starting from the right side of the colony and slowly working its way to the left. I have tried and tried to find pics like it with no success. Its like a little ball of ramen noodles that is maybe 1 cm across coming from the mouth. It doesnt extend them but just holds the ball at the mouth.

Being my first favia Im quite frustrated as it is supposed to be an easy coral and so far seems to be the most finicky. The colors were lightening up in patches so I thought it was getting too much light so I put some screen over it to shade it which has helped in that regard.

I feed Arctipods and Oyster feast in the mornings to my tank. My lighting is two radion lights set around 20k. My photo period is about 12 hours total with the intensity peaking in the middle for about 6 hours. The other 6 hours is the blues progressing from low par to high and vice versa.

So anyways anyone have some insight on what is going on here? It has covered about half the coral so far. I can try and get a pic of it later today. Should I dip it asap? I'd rather not touch the thing unless I know it is already stressed.

Thanks!

Reef Bass · 09/30/2014, 07:30 AM

Welcome to ReefCentral!

I like favias and have had some for a while. Yours sounds like a beauty.

What you are describing doesn't sound like anything I've experienced. Many polyps are extending little noodle balls on your favia? Do they retract the noodles eventually?

A picture could help. A focused farther away shot is better than a blurry close up.

Two other water parameters that I find important with stony corals (like favia) are alkalinity and magnesium. I suggest testing those. With an established tank and a love of stony corals, alk, ca and mag are the three items I test for regularly.

Dipping is generally an anti-parasite or disfecting move. I'm not clear those are called for yet. I would say your favia is likely already stressed and as such additional stresses should be avoided unless necessary.

How is the flow over it? Being part of an sps tank, it could be easy to over light and over flow it. My favias are in darker slower water in my mostly sps tank.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 08:02 AM

=========
Here is some additional info for you coral detectives out there..

The coral was introduced to my tank about a month ago. I dipped in Seachem Reef Dip prior to adding it to the tank as per instructions. As for fish I have a tang, lawn mower blenny, chromis and have not observed anyone picking on it. As to near by other corals. There is an encrusting montipora about an inch away below it, a Red Ball Sponge which is healthy about 6 inches from it and a Raspberry Stylophora also about 6 inches from it. None of these are showing any stress. The gut showing started on the side the sponge is on. The gut showing started about 3 weeks ago around the time it just began showing a little color stress from the lights. Shading it does seem to help a bit.

For water flow the tank has two MP10w on a 20 second alternating long pulse. They are in the upper middle sides. The favia is out of their blast and gets more of a medium alternating current in the back flow.

So what I am wondering is.. Do favia tend to do this under stress or is this just a normal acclimation thing? Or is this something bizarre and I'm dealing with a possible virus or something?

Here are the pics (Sorry the colors are all blue because of my lights but the main focus here is the white balls.) Also to note is in a straight line right down the middle you can see a brighter tone which is from the light stress I believe.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reef Bass

Welcome to ReefCentral!

I like favias and have had some for a while. Yours sounds like a beauty.

(The red does seem to be turning more purple the longer its in the tank so it might become a little more plain)

What you are describing doesn't sound like anything I've experienced. Many polyps are extending little noodle balls on your favia? Do they retract the noodles eventually?

(Sometime I think it is but then the next day it seems a little worse)

A picture could help. A focused farther away shot is better than a blurry close up.

(Tried to give a variety though the colors are all wrong)

Two other water parameters that I find important with stony corals (like favia) are alkalinity and magnesium. I suggest testing those. With an established tank and a love of stony corals, alk, ca and mag are the three items I test for regularly.

(I'll dig around and see if I have the tests for these two)

Dipping is generally an anti-parasite or dissecting move. I'm not clear those are called for yet. I would say your favia is likely already stressed and as such additional stresses should be avoided unless necessary.

How is the flow over it? Being part of an sps tank, it could be easy to over light and over flow it. My favias are in darker slower water in my mostly sps tank.

(I have read this, I really don't think flow is the issue on this one. Ironically the side the guts started showing from is slightly shaded by my hang on the back overflow. So far adding more shade has helped with the bleaching but not the guts...)

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 10:50 AM

Well according to my Alk test kit which I find really frustrating to match the color looks like Im coming in right arount 2.2 might be pushing higher though to 2.6 if Im not reading it right. Tends more to blue than yellow anyways.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 11:45 AM

Ok just finished some more tests
Mg: 1020ppm
Ca: 415ppm

Im going to try my more accurate Alk test kit.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 11:58 AM

Woah more accurate Alk test shows 6.0 which is pretty low. Looks like Ill research that route further. I should say the first test kit I had was a cheaper one which 2.2 was about the middle of their ok zone. The second test is usually the 7-8.5 # people report. Thanks.

Reef Frog · 09/30/2014, 01:52 PM

I would definitely get ALK & Mg up. I can confirm having a problem with a prism brain when my Ca & Mg dropped due to an unchecked doser issue, but mine was a coloration issue only & now is recovering.

I don't know the answer but a few thoughts to consider:
-Possible food regurgitation or waste? This will usually blow away with a few squirts of a turkey baster.
-This is a wild guess but was wondering if it's a beginning of a spawning event. I was thinking this as the objects looked round to me. Just not sure but might be worth looking into.
-I didn't see classic signs of decline like tissue recession & bleaching. I agree a dip wouldn't be called for unless you strongly suspect parasites.

Good luck. Hope you keep us posted on this as I don't think this is a common condition.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 01:56 PM

Appreciate it.. I did consider it being waste and yesterday I gave it a couple gentle puffs with the turkey baster and I am pretty sure this is attached to the coral itself. Today the little balls have gotten smaller so I am hoping the shade + Mg + a very small dose of Baking Soda to the tank is having a positive effect. I plan on doing a single bucket water change tonight and then tomorrow Ill check my PH, Alk and Mg levels again.

kurt_n · 09/30/2014, 02:10 PM

Those are mesenterial filaments - definitely not waste. You're right... in normal words, it's puking its guts out.

Since you got the coral 4 weeks ago, and it started doing this about 3 weeks ago, I'd peg it to something in your tank stressing it out. It's not a normal acclimation thing... it's stress. I'm not an expert, but I've never seen stress from lighting (too much) cause this type of response. I'd say it's something chemical.

Is that Stylophora upstream from the Favia? I mean... is the current in your tank flowing from the Stylophora to the Favia? If so, you might try moving it away from the Stylo (or vice versa) and see if that doesn't help. I remember when I had a Stylo, I read about them being one of the more aleopathic corals - it can use chemical means to protect itself. Perhaps it's throwing off some "stink" (for lack of a better term) and it's flowing across the Favia. Just a thought.

I don't think it's a virus/bacteria thing. I think it's more that it doesn't like the water parameters, for whatever reason. I agree your Mag is definitely off (shoot for around 3x your calcium reading). 6.0 dkH for alkalinity - while low - isn't so low that I'd expect it to cause issues.

Do sponges play the chemical attack game? I'm totally clueless about those, but I know some of the different ones can be nasty. Just mentioning that because that sponge looks pretty darn close also.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 02:33 PM

Ill continue to shoot for better levels on my Mg. Observing the currant it looks as if it is mainly down stream from the stylo. but. the side that is facing the stylo doesn't show any issues. One thing I did notice while watching the specs of stuff float through the water is they were blowing past a little quicker than I initially thought. So I moved the mp10 on the side forward an inch to slow things down back there. I think thats about all I want to try for the next day or two just so I can let things adjust. I'll follow up with the results for future reference for anyone else having the same issue.

Ricks_Reef · 09/30/2014, 04:25 PM

Im happy to report end of day for me that half the polyps with their guts out have sucked them back in already. I really appreciate the suggestions. I will hopefully post a fully recovered pic in about a week, maybe I can get the colors right then =).

aromano · 10/01/2014, 07:27 PM

don't discount the sponge as being a target of aggression . Sometimes instead of sweepers these guys attack with mesenteral filaments and digest their neighbors. If they are stressed from new tank for instance from my experience that increases tendencies to defend themselves.

Ricks_Reef · 10/02/2014, 11:56 AM

Agreed, Im not in a hurry to move the sponge though because it's base is glued to the rock that the Favia is sitting on so like how everything seems to go with reefing is one thing leads to another.

In the meantime though it has retracted about 75% of the filaments though and is looking happier in general. I'm really starting to think that majority of the stress was flow/light related. Slowly getting my water params to a more ideal range as well which is probably helping too.

There really isn't any stomach balls left on the thing.. more like little bits coming from the mouths for those that still have some so I think it's just a matter of time till it's all back to happy.

09/30/2014, 06:33 AM	#1
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Favia slowly showing guts from mouth Hello, So basically I have a mixed reef tank I setup at the beginning of this year. Size ~80 gal with 15 gal sump/refugium Nitrates 0, Phosphates ~0, CA, Little on the high side Salinity 1.025 Temp 25.7 C My inhabitants are about half SPS Acropora on the left side of the tank and on the right in the back I have a beautiful red/green/purple favia. Its about 10 inches across at the widest point. All of my corals are doing quite well with good polyp extension and coloration. The issue is my favia has started putting out its guts a couple polyps a day starting from the right side of the colony and slowly working its way to the left. I have tried and tried to find pics like it with no success. Its like a little ball of ramen noodles that is maybe 1 cm across coming from the mouth. It doesnt extend them but just holds the ball at the mouth. Being my first favia Im quite frustrated as it is supposed to be an easy coral and so far seems to be the most finicky. The colors were lightening up in patches so I thought it was getting too much light so I put some screen over it to shade it which has helped in that regard. I feed Arctipods and Oyster feast in the mornings to my tank. My lighting is two radion lights set around 20k. My photo period is about 12 hours total with the intensity peaking in the middle for about 6 hours. The other 6 hours is the blues progressing from low par to high and vice versa. So anyways anyone have some insight on what is going on here? It has covered about half the coral so far. I can try and get a pic of it later today. Should I dip it asap? I'd rather not touch the thing unless I know it is already stressed. Thanks!

09/30/2014, 07:30 AM	#2
Reef Bass colors and textures Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Petaluma CA Posts: 6,301	Welcome to ReefCentral! I like favias and have had some for a while. Yours sounds like a beauty. What you are describing doesn't sound like anything I've experienced. Many polyps are extending little noodle balls on your favia? Do they retract the noodles eventually? A picture could help. A focused farther away shot is better than a blurry close up. Two other water parameters that I find important with stony corals (like favia) are alkalinity and magnesium. I suggest testing those. With an established tank and a love of stony corals, alk, ca and mag are the three items I test for regularly. Dipping is generally an anti-parasite or disfecting move. I'm not clear those are called for yet. I would say your favia is likely already stressed and as such additional stresses should be avoided unless necessary. How is the flow over it? Being part of an sps tank, it could be easy to over light and over flow it. My favias are in darker slower water in my mostly sps tank. __________________ The human desires for instant gratification and immediate problem resolution cannot be satisfied with this hobby. Former president and co-president of the Wine Country Reefers. Current Tank Info: 60 gallons of Scleractinia and Zoanthidae lit w/ LEDs

09/30/2014, 08:02 AM	#3
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Additional Info ========= Here is some additional info for you coral detectives out there.. The coral was introduced to my tank about a month ago. I dipped in Seachem Reef Dip prior to adding it to the tank as per instructions. As for fish I have a tang, lawn mower blenny, chromis and have not observed anyone picking on it. As to near by other corals. There is an encrusting montipora about an inch away below it, a Red Ball Sponge which is healthy about 6 inches from it and a Raspberry Stylophora also about 6 inches from it. None of these are showing any stress. The gut showing started on the side the sponge is on. The gut showing started about 3 weeks ago around the time it just began showing a little color stress from the lights. Shading it does seem to help a bit. For water flow the tank has two MP10w on a 20 second alternating long pulse. They are in the upper middle sides. The favia is out of their blast and gets more of a medium alternating current in the back flow. So what I am wondering is.. Do favia tend to do this under stress or is this just a normal acclimation thing? Or is this something bizarre and I'm dealing with a possible virus or something? Here are the pics (Sorry the colors are all blue because of my lights but the main focus here is the white balls.) Also to note is in a straight line right down the middle you can see a brighter tone which is from the light stress I believe. Last edited by Ricks_Reef; 09/30/2014 at 08:19 AM. Reason: Adding Pics

09/30/2014, 10:50 AM	#5
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Well according to my Alk test kit which I find really frustrating to match the color looks like Im coming in right arount 2.2 might be pushing higher though to 2.6 if Im not reading it right. Tends more to blue than yellow anyways.

09/30/2014, 11:45 AM	#6
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Ok just finished some more tests Mg: 1020ppm Ca: 415ppm Im going to try my more accurate Alk test kit.

09/30/2014, 11:58 AM	#7
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Woah more accurate Alk test shows 6.0 which is pretty low. Looks like Ill research that route further. I should say the first test kit I had was a cheaper one which 2.2 was about the middle of their ok zone. The second test is usually the 7-8.5 # people report. Thanks.

09/30/2014, 01:52 PM	#8
Reef Frog Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,121	I would definitely get ALK & Mg up. I can confirm having a problem with a prism brain when my Ca & Mg dropped due to an unchecked doser issue, but mine was a coloration issue only & now is recovering. I don't know the answer but a few thoughts to consider: -Possible food regurgitation or waste? This will usually blow away with a few squirts of a turkey baster. -This is a wild guess but was wondering if it's a beginning of a spawning event. I was thinking this as the objects looked round to me. Just not sure but might be worth looking into. -I didn't see classic signs of decline like tissue recession & bleaching. I agree a dip wouldn't be called for unless you strongly suspect parasites. Good luck. Hope you keep us posted on this as I don't think this is a common condition.

09/30/2014, 01:56 PM	#9
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Appreciate it.. I did consider it being waste and yesterday I gave it a couple gentle puffs with the turkey baster and I am pretty sure this is attached to the coral itself. Today the little balls have gotten smaller so I am hoping the shade + Mg + a very small dose of Baking Soda to the tank is having a positive effect. I plan on doing a single bucket water change tonight and then tomorrow Ill check my PH, Alk and Mg levels again.

09/30/2014, 02:10 PM	#10
kurt_n Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: WA Posts: 2,592	Those are mesenterial filaments - definitely not waste. You're right... in normal words, it's puking its guts out. Since you got the coral 4 weeks ago, and it started doing this about 3 weeks ago, I'd peg it to something in your tank stressing it out. It's not a normal acclimation thing... it's stress. I'm not an expert, but I've never seen stress from lighting (too much) cause this type of response. I'd say it's something chemical. Is that Stylophora upstream from the Favia? I mean... is the current in your tank flowing from the Stylophora to the Favia? If so, you might try moving it away from the Stylo (or vice versa) and see if that doesn't help. I remember when I had a Stylo, I read about them being one of the more aleopathic corals - it can use chemical means to protect itself. Perhaps it's throwing off some "stink" (for lack of a better term) and it's flowing across the Favia. Just a thought. I don't think it's a virus/bacteria thing. I think it's more that it doesn't like the water parameters, for whatever reason. I agree your Mag is definitely off (shoot for around 3x your calcium reading). 6.0 dkH for alkalinity - while low - isn't so low that I'd expect it to cause issues. Do sponges play the chemical attack game? I'm totally clueless about those, but I know some of the different ones can be nasty. Just mentioning that because that sponge looks pretty darn close also.

09/30/2014, 02:33 PM	#11
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Ill continue to shoot for better levels on my Mg. Observing the currant it looks as if it is mainly down stream from the stylo. but. the side that is facing the stylo doesn't show any issues. One thing I did notice while watching the specs of stuff float through the water is they were blowing past a little quicker than I initially thought. So I moved the mp10 on the side forward an inch to slow things down back there. I think thats about all I want to try for the next day or two just so I can let things adjust. I'll follow up with the results for future reference for anyone else having the same issue.

09/30/2014, 04:25 PM	#12
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Im happy to report end of day for me that half the polyps with their guts out have sucked them back in already. I really appreciate the suggestions. I will hopefully post a fully recovered pic in about a week, maybe I can get the colors right then =).

10/01/2014, 07:27 PM	#13
aromano Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2011 Posts: 316	don't discount the sponge as being a target of aggression . Sometimes instead of sweepers these guys attack with mesenteral filaments and digest their neighbors. If they are stressed from new tank for instance from my experience that increases tendencies to defend themselves.

10/02/2014, 11:56 AM	#14
Ricks_Reef Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 31	Agreed, Im not in a hurry to move the sponge though because it's base is glued to the rock that the Favia is sitting on so like how everything seems to go with reefing is one thing leads to another. In the meantime though it has retracted about 75% of the filaments though and is looking happier in general. I'm really starting to think that majority of the stress was flow/light related. Slowly getting my water params to a more ideal range as well which is probably helping too. There really isn't any stomach balls left on the thing.. more like little bits coming from the mouths for those that still have some so I think it's just a matter of time till it's all back to happy.