Nitrate wont lower no matter what i do

d2mooch · 09/07/2014, 05:09 PM

I have had a tank running for about a year now recently starting having problems with my nitrates. I have read very many post on here to see if there was anything that I thought I was doing wrong, but cant find an exact answer. Hoping someone can help me out.

I have a 55gallon saltwater FOWLR tank with 2 clown fish, 1 blue damsel, 1hawkfish, and a snowflake eel all of them are juvenile. For a cleaner crew i have 5 turbo snails, 5 red legged hermit crabs, 1 pincushion urchin and a serpent starfish. I feed all of them every other day and only rotating with pellets and brine shrimp. The eel gets jumbo krill and silversides.

Currently i am running a Fluval 406 canister, and reef-octopus hang on skimmer. Along with 2 wave makers, cant remember the exact size but have excellent circulation. The tank has roughly 60lbs of live sand and 60lbs of man made and natural live rock.As and extra filter there is a handfull of macro algae.

Everything with my tank has been perfect since I set it up but recently my nitrates have been ranging from 80ppm to 110ppm. All my other levels are perfect. I have been doing normal water changes(25% weekly) and monthly cleanings of the protein skimmer, canister along with cleaning the inside of the glass. There is good water circulation threw my liverock, with very little, if any dead spots. I have been consulting my LFS on lowing the nitrates, ive tried almost every filter and nothing is seeming to work. IS there anything that I am missing or havent done? And yes i you two different test kits for my nitrates.

KAMIKAZE0214 · 09/07/2014, 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2mooch

I have had a tank running for about a year now recently starting having problems with my nitrates. I have read very many post on here to see if there was anything that I thought I was doing wrong, but cant find an exact answer. Hoping someone can help me out.

I have a 55gallon saltwater FOWLR tank with 2 clown fish, 1 blue damsel, 1hawkfish, and a snowflake eel all of them are juvenile. For a cleaner crew i have 5 turbo snails, 5 red legged hermit crabs, 1 pincushion urchin and a serpent starfish. I feed all of them every other day and only rotating with pellets and brine shrimp. The eel gets jumbo krill and silversides.

Currently i am running a Fluval 406 canister, and reef-octopus hang on skimmer. Along with 2 wave makers, cant remember the exact size but have excellent circulation. The tank has roughly 60lbs of live sand and 60lbs of man made and natural live rock.As and extra filter there is a handfull of macro algae.

Everything with my tank has been perfect since I set it up but recently my nitrates have been ranging from 80ppm to 110ppm. All my other levels are perfect. I have been doing normal water changes(25% weekly) and monthly cleanings of the protein skimmer, canister along with cleaning the inside of the glass. There is good water circulation threw my liverock, with very little, if any dead spots. I have been consulting my LFS on lowing the nitrates, ive tried almost every filter and nothing is seeming to work. IS there anything that I am missing or havent done? And yes i you two different test kits for my nitrates.

What substrate on the bottom? Could have rotting material there. Could be something getting trapped in your canister filter (should probably clean every 3-7 days). Could be your water changes just can't keep up with the amount of waste.

Nitrates are only taken care of by export, either through dosing (encouraging bacteria that use nitrate), larger water changes, deep sand bed, or some sort of algae.

I went with dosing. Good luck!

Fallling · 09/07/2014, 05:30 PM

Couple of things come to my mind. Have you tested the water you're doing water changes with? If the water is 0 nitrate and you perform several large water changes over the course of a week or 2, that will bring it back down. Are you experiencing any algae problems? If you're not, it could very well be a bad test kit, especially if it just started happening. Finally, what are you running in the canister filter? If there's foam blocks or other mechanical filters, that could be trapping detritus and causing problems if not cleaned at least 1x week.

One method to bring nitrates down is with carbon dosing via vinegar or vodka, but sounds like you have something else going on that should be addressed first.

d2mooch · 09/07/2014, 05:47 PM

The tank has a fine sand bed that ranges anywhere for 4inches in depth to about 2 inches.There is also a little crushed coral, I know that can be part of the problem and slowing taking it out.

As for the canister i am running 2 carbon filters, 2 di-nitrate, 2 sea-gel, and 1 puregon(cant remember exact spelling)

I know that using just tap water is not good for changes but I let it set out for 2 days before i put it in the tank. I have tested the tap water and it is showing 5ppm of nitrates. I have read about the vodka method and very hesitant about it. Some sites says it has be very precise, unless you have had success with it?

I havent had any algae problems any form of algae that starts to grow on the glass the snails get to it right away.

Fallling · 09/07/2014, 06:11 PM

Have you had the nitrate verified with another test kit? Since it's FOWLR, nitrate isn't nearly a big concern as with a reef, so some people use tap water without issue for FOWLR. Even with 5 ppm in tap, it should be ok for FOWLR since you don't have algae problem. You mentioned this is recent... what were you typically getting for nitrates before, and how long has it been like this? With the deep sand bed, it could possible that as you're taking it out, things are getting stirred up and releasing into the water column. When did you start removing it? Maybe there's a correlation between the high nitrates and starting to remove the sand bed. If that's the case, several good size water changes are the best bet.

I'd look into vinegar dosing. As with everything, starting slowly is usually safest. I'm about to start myself because I feed very heavily due to nps and would like to reduce nitrates about 5 ppm so I can keep them more about 2 ppm.

This is good read for vinegar dosing.

http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/116-vinegar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium

d2mooch · 09/07/2014, 06:26 PM

I normally only take out about a cup of the crushed coral every time i do a water change. I mainly suck it up through a siphon so i dont have very much being released back into the tank. The test kit seems to be fine, i just recently tested the tap water and only read 5ppm. I believe it started 2 months ago, i was away a few weeks and my wife was taking care of the feeding.

I have seen alot of post saying that its not as bad at nitrite and ammonia, but i am trading my clownfish for a blue spot puffer and fuzzy dwarf lionfish. Just would like to get that under control before they come in.

Aquarist007 · 09/07/2014, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2mooch

Everything with my tank has been perfect since I set it up but recently my nitrates have been ranging from 80ppm to 110ppm. All my other levels are perfect. I have been doing normal water changes(25% weekly) and monthly cleanings of the protein skimmer, canister along with cleaning the inside of the glass. There is good water circulation threw my liverock, with very little, if any dead spots. I have been consulting my LFS on lowing the nitrates, ive tried almost every filter and nothing is seeming to work. IS there anything that I am missing or havent done? And yes i you two different test kits for my nitrates.

Have you measured the the nitrate level before and after you do a water change
If your nitrates are at a 100 and you change 25% then they should drop to 75.
This is a good test for your kits

I would ditch the pellets and just feed whole sea food : mysis raw shrimp clams ect.
I would suggest a series of 50 per cent water changes and measure your phosphates also.
If you have phosphates also then initiate carbon dosing...vinegar or vodka

Aquarist007 · 09/07/2014, 06:54 PM

Here is an excellent thread on carbon dosing

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2134105

Aquarist007 · 09/07/2014, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2mooch

I normally only take out about a cup of the crushed coral every time i do a water change. I mainly suck it up through a siphon so i dont have very much being released back into the tank. The test kit seems to be fine, i just recently tested the tap water and only read 5ppm. I believe it started 2 months ago, i was away a few weeks and my wife was taking care of the feeding.

I have seen alot of post saying that its not as bad at nitrite and ammonia, but i am trading my clownfish for a blue spot puffer and fuzzy dwarf lionfish. Just would like to get that under control before they come in.

You are correct with regards to fish however nitrates can affect inverts which would make some guys on here question the validity of his nitrate levels

d2mooch · 09/07/2014, 06:58 PM

I have tried with the mysis shrimp for a while and none of my fish will take them for some reason. The seem to go crazy over the pellets the best. I understand they arent the greatest for them so i rotate with brine shrimp and small krill.

As for phosphates they are at 0 every time i have tested them. I have tested my water after ive done a change and there wasnt much of a change. I am planning on doing a 50% change tomorrow in hope that will work better than doing frequent 25% changes.

Aquarist007 · 09/07/2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2mooch

I have tried with the mysis shrimp for a while and none of my fish will take them for some reason. The seem to go crazy over the pellets the best. I understand they arent the greatest for them so i rotate with brine shrimp and small krill.

As for phosphates they are at 0 every time i have tested them. I have tested my water after ive done a change and there wasnt much of a change. I am planning on doing a 50% change tomorrow in hope that will work better than doing frequent 25% changes.

Probably you are importing the nitrates as quick as you reduce them. This is why I suggested you do a before and immediately after nitrate measurement
What test kits are you using for nitrates and phosphates?

d2mooch · 09/07/2014, 07:18 PM

I have been using the API Saltwater test kits. Recently realized on these forums these test seem to be very inaccurate.

Aquarist007 · 09/07/2014, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by d2mooch

I have been using the API Saltwater test kits. Recently realized on these forums these test seem to be very inaccurate.

I would suggest you switch to Salifert for nitrates and phosphates. I'd remeasure with these test kits before doing the big water changes. Sometimes big water changes can be more disruptful to the system then good

Triggerfish · 10/02/2014, 01:47 PM

see here:
http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420

09/07/2014, 05:09 PM	#1
d2mooch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	Nitrate wont lower no matter what i do I have had a tank running for about a year now recently starting having problems with my nitrates. I have read very many post on here to see if there was anything that I thought I was doing wrong, but cant find an exact answer. Hoping someone can help me out. I have a 55gallon saltwater FOWLR tank with 2 clown fish, 1 blue damsel, 1hawkfish, and a snowflake eel all of them are juvenile. For a cleaner crew i have 5 turbo snails, 5 red legged hermit crabs, 1 pincushion urchin and a serpent starfish. I feed all of them every other day and only rotating with pellets and brine shrimp. The eel gets jumbo krill and silversides. Currently i am running a Fluval 406 canister, and reef-octopus hang on skimmer. Along with 2 wave makers, cant remember the exact size but have excellent circulation. The tank has roughly 60lbs of live sand and 60lbs of man made and natural live rock.As and extra filter there is a handfull of macro algae. Everything with my tank has been perfect since I set it up but recently my nitrates have been ranging from 80ppm to 110ppm. All my other levels are perfect. I have been doing normal water changes(25% weekly) and monthly cleanings of the protein skimmer, canister along with cleaning the inside of the glass. There is good water circulation threw my liverock, with very little, if any dead spots. I have been consulting my LFS on lowing the nitrates, ive tried almost every filter and nothing is seeming to work. IS there anything that I am missing or havent done? And yes i you two different test kits for my nitrates.

09/07/2014, 05:30 PM	#3
Fallling Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 455	Couple of things come to my mind. Have you tested the water you're doing water changes with? If the water is 0 nitrate and you perform several large water changes over the course of a week or 2, that will bring it back down. Are you experiencing any algae problems? If you're not, it could very well be a bad test kit, especially if it just started happening. Finally, what are you running in the canister filter? If there's foam blocks or other mechanical filters, that could be trapping detritus and causing problems if not cleaned at least 1x week. One method to bring nitrates down is with carbon dosing via vinegar or vodka, but sounds like you have something else going on that should be addressed first. __________________ A really expensive cat TV. Current Tank Info: 40"L x 24"W x 30"H 125 gallon mixed reef \| 40 gallon sump \| Pacific Sun Pandora S T5 / LED \| RLSS R8-I protein skimmer

09/07/2014, 06:11 PM	#5
Fallling Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 455	Have you had the nitrate verified with another test kit? Since it's FOWLR, nitrate isn't nearly a big concern as with a reef, so some people use tap water without issue for FOWLR. Even with 5 ppm in tap, it should be ok for FOWLR since you don't have algae problem. You mentioned this is recent... what were you typically getting for nitrates before, and how long has it been like this? With the deep sand bed, it could possible that as you're taking it out, things are getting stirred up and releasing into the water column. When did you start removing it? Maybe there's a correlation between the high nitrates and starting to remove the sand bed. If that's the case, several good size water changes are the best bet. I'd look into vinegar dosing. As with everything, starting slowly is usually safest. I'm about to start myself because I feed very heavily due to nps and would like to reduce nitrates about 5 ppm so I can keep them more about 2 ppm. This is good read for vinegar dosing. http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/116-vinegar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium __________________ A really expensive cat TV. Current Tank Info: 40"L x 24"W x 30"H 125 gallon mixed reef \| 40 gallon sump \| Pacific Sun Pandora S T5 / LED \| RLSS R8-I protein skimmer

09/07/2014, 06:54 PM	#8
Aquarist007 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Hamilton, Canada Posts: 28,240 Blog Entries: 1	Here is an excellent thread on carbon dosing http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2134105 __________________ I prefer my substrates stirred but not shaken Current Tank Info: 150gal long mixed reef, 90gal sump, 60 gal refugium with 200 lbs live rock

10/02/2014, 01:47 PM	#14
Triggerfish Registered Member Join Date: Dec 1999 Location: Boston, MA Posts: 3,391	see here: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1977420 __________________ 150g Bow: YWG,Flurry clowns, LMB, yellow tail, chalk bass, Bangaii ,powder brown. Current Tank Info: 110g mixed reef

09/07/2014, 05:47 PM	#4
d2mooch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	The tank has a fine sand bed that ranges anywhere for 4inches in depth to about 2 inches.There is also a little crushed coral, I know that can be part of the problem and slowing taking it out. As for the canister i am running 2 carbon filters, 2 di-nitrate, 2 sea-gel, and 1 puregon(cant remember exact spelling) I know that using just tap water is not good for changes but I let it set out for 2 days before i put it in the tank. I have tested the tap water and it is showing 5ppm of nitrates. I have read about the vodka method and very hesitant about it. Some sites says it has be very precise, unless you have had success with it? I havent had any algae problems any form of algae that starts to grow on the glass the snails get to it right away.

09/07/2014, 06:26 PM	#6
d2mooch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	I normally only take out about a cup of the crushed coral every time i do a water change. I mainly suck it up through a siphon so i dont have very much being released back into the tank. The test kit seems to be fine, i just recently tested the tap water and only read 5ppm. I believe it started 2 months ago, i was away a few weeks and my wife was taking care of the feeding. I have seen alot of post saying that its not as bad at nitrite and ammonia, but i am trading my clownfish for a blue spot puffer and fuzzy dwarf lionfish. Just would like to get that under control before they come in.

09/07/2014, 06:58 PM	#10
d2mooch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	I have tried with the mysis shrimp for a while and none of my fish will take them for some reason. The seem to go crazy over the pellets the best. I understand they arent the greatest for them so i rotate with brine shrimp and small krill. As for phosphates they are at 0 every time i have tested them. I have tested my water after ive done a change and there wasnt much of a change. I am planning on doing a 50% change tomorrow in hope that will work better than doing frequent 25% changes.

09/07/2014, 07:18 PM	#12
d2mooch Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 9	I have been using the API Saltwater test kits. Recently realized on these forums these test seem to be very inaccurate.