Hello everyone, I'm new to the hobby, while my dad is experienced, we have problem

DamonJ · 11/14/2014, 11:54 AM

Hello everyone, I'm new to the hobby, while my dad is experienced, he advised me to learn, read from forum about my 20g saltwater tank. I have cycled the tank over 4 weeks now, and readings are good, all within range (ph=8, am=0, no2=0, no3=5 ppm) today. I have a green tip torch coral, a diamond sifting goby in sand, one clown, two spotted cardinal, peppermint shrimp, and 2 clams, 10 blue leg crab, snails all added this week. I was told to add all together from online retailer, and start monitoring the readings every week, and a 5 gallon water change also.

I think I have a oxygen problem. all the fish were gasping for air yesterday, and swimming on top of tank. so my dad added a airstone last night, and they are all acting normal again. I have a EHEIM skim350 skimmer and fluval 206. is there enough flow for oxygen transfer in my 20g tank?

Sugar Magnolia · 11/14/2014, 03:55 PM

This thread has been moved to the current forum.

Airborne12B · 11/14/2014, 04:32 PM

When they gasp for air, are they doing anything else strange? For instance, is it swimming normally with labored breathing, or is it near the top of the water with it's head vertical? The reason I ask is it might not be as simple as aerating the water. Let's figure out why they're doing it, not just how to make them stop. In the meantime, while aerating be sure not to stir up anything on the bottom. I would recommend placing the air stone near the mid level of the tank if possible. Stirring anything up can a) make it worse b) create a new problem with an already stressed fish, and c) make it harder to diagnose.

Nina51 · 11/14/2014, 04:57 PM

air stones create a lot of salt creep and you will constantly be wiping up around the top of your tank and maybe even the wall behind it. you're better off to get a small power head, mount it a few inches below the water line and point it toward the top to get surface agitation. it sounds like you don't have a lot of water movement right now.

Sk8r · 11/14/2014, 06:05 PM

Your sandsifter probably should go back to the store: the type needs a larger tank, and it may starve, because it depends less on fishfood than on sifting garbage from a lot of sand. If he'll eat fishfood, that's ok, but if you don't see him eating it, be thinking about trading him for credit.

Your others are ok, but you do need a very strong light, about 10000k, for that torch coral, plus weekly water changes of 10%.

Jeff210 · 11/14/2014, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nina51

you're better off to get a small power head, mount it a few inches below the water line and point it toward the top to get surface agitation. it sounds like you don't have a lot of water movement right now.

What Nina said...

thegrun · 11/14/2014, 07:40 PM

You have added too much livestock all at once, the tank isn't mature enough to handle all that bio-load.

gbru316 · 11/14/2014, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Your others are ok, but you do need a very strong light, about 10000k, .

The color temperature of a light has absolutely nothing to do with the "strength" of the light. I get that this is the "beginner" forum and the details are diluted as needed, but if one goes to a store, they'll find 10,0000k lights that range from near unusable (single strip, low power LEDs) to overkill (400w metal halides).

IMO, a better way to recommend lighting to a beginner is by type. For instance, "a 4 bulb, 24 inch T-5 fixture" or "a 150w metal halide."

Mykro · 11/14/2014, 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Your sandsifter probably should go back to the store: the type needs a larger tank, and it may starve, because it depends less on fishfood than on sifting garbage from a lot of sand. If he'll eat fishfood, that's ok, but if you don't see him eating it, be thinking about trading him for credit.

Your others are ok, but you do need a very strong light, about 10000k, for that torch coral, plus weekly water changes of 10%.

Always good advice from this guy... +1

jinks · 11/14/2014, 09:46 PM

A real skimmer will replace that air stone and do something productive for your tank. Put a good powerhead in there and youll be in better shape too. Doesnt look like those really turn over that much water.

bundybear1981 · 11/15/2014, 01:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mykro

Always good advice from this guy... +1

Just in case you didn't know, Sk8r is a lady

She is most certainly a wealth of information.

pyithar · 11/15/2014, 04:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bundybear1981

Just in case you didn't know, Sk8r is a lady

She is most certainly a wealth of information.

oh good to know. i also thought Sk8r is a guy. whenever i see that name, i imagine a young adult male with a skateboard in my mind.

Nina51 · 11/15/2014, 06:58 AM

now you can start imagining a graceful female figure sk8r.

Teenreefer15 · 11/15/2014, 10:01 AM

I don't think your tank can handle the BIO load that your giving it. Maybe you can choose your least favorites and bring them back the store.

Sk8r · 11/15/2014, 12:28 PM

10000 k would a place to start for euphyllia [torch, hammer, frog], and would of course have to be suited to tank depth: it needs to be about 9" above water surface and in that size tank, 250 watt would mean keeping everything on the tank bottom. You MIGHT get by with a 6500k CFL floodlight in a shoplight clip, but I wouldn't bet on it thriving. Cheato will, however, on that lighting, and MAYBE softies would. There are just so many problems here at once it's hard to tell what to do first. Removing all inhabitants including corals and letting the tank recover might be the best, then add a small light and some hardy corals with a few crabs and gobies.

DamonJ · 11/15/2014, 04:09 PM

The fish are ok, I added a stone for two days, and adjusted the Eheim to point up to the surface. all good for now, I put another thread out there about my next steps with protein skimmers, reactors, and sumps.... thanks for the info....

Sk8r · 11/15/2014, 05:53 PM

GOod that the oxygen is increasing. What you've got is a nano tank, ie, quite small. I've run a successful tank with no more than a Penguiin filter (it was a 30 long) but it did have a lot of hair algae, and only housed a couple of small gobies and some mushrooms.

garyinco · 11/15/2014, 08:46 PM

The Eheim skimming device you mention is not what most people think of as a skimmer. It certainly will help the surface of the water free of a film.

What most consider to be a skimmer is something that injects air bubbles into a column of water and forces a foam at the top. The foam eventually spills over into some sort of collection area to be discarded at your convenience.The foam is very concentrated in organic proteins. Poop, pee and other waste elements. Think of the dingy foam you occasionally see washed on a lake shore or in nooks and crannies on a fast moving stream. Protein skimmers are very handy and popular in the saltwater hobby.

It is certainly possible to run a tank without one. It takes more attention and maintenance without one though. A major side benefit is when you inject all that air into the device you're also saturating the water with oxygen.

I would like to know which online retailer suggested adding all that stock at once on such a new tank.

Look for a small powerhead pump. You LFSs should stock a number of them and they are very inexpensive. The maxijets are popular, the MJ series by a company named Cobalt Aquatics are better. I would put a powerhead in there before you do anything else.

Later, look for a true protein skimmer. If you are close to some urban area then Craigslist is a good source for used ones. Get that powerhead now though! You and everything in the tank will appreciate it.

Teenreefer15 · 11/15/2014, 09:08 PM

That eheim is a surface skimmer not a protein skimmer. I'd recommend you get a reef octopus HOB or an aqua remora skimmer unless you have a sump.

11/14/2014, 11:54 AM	#1
DamonJ Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5	Hello everyone, I'm new to the hobby, while my dad is experienced, we have problem Hello everyone, I'm new to the hobby, while my dad is experienced, he advised me to learn, read from forum about my 20g saltwater tank. I have cycled the tank over 4 weeks now, and readings are good, all within range (ph=8, am=0, no2=0, no3=5 ppm) today. I have a green tip torch coral, a diamond sifting goby in sand, one clown, two spotted cardinal, peppermint shrimp, and 2 clams, 10 blue leg crab, snails all added this week. I was told to add all together from online retailer, and start monitoring the readings every week, and a 5 gallon water change also. I think I have a oxygen problem. all the fish were gasping for air yesterday, and swimming on top of tank. so my dad added a airstone last night, and they are all acting normal again. I have a EHEIM skim350 skimmer and fluval 206. is there enough flow for oxygen transfer in my 20g tank? Last edited by DamonJ; 11/14/2014 at 11:56 AM. Reason: wrong spot, need to put in the new area

11/14/2014, 03:55 PM	#2
Sugar Magnolia Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Northern VA Posts: 17,691	This thread has been moved to the current forum. __________________ Adrienne The only thing to fear is fear itself....and spiders.

11/14/2014, 04:32 PM	#3
Airborne12B Certified Soul Eater Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Texas Posts: 171	When they gasp for air, are they doing anything else strange? For instance, is it swimming normally with labored breathing, or is it near the top of the water with it's head vertical? The reason I ask is it might not be as simple as aerating the water. Let's figure out why they're doing it, not just how to make them stop. In the meantime, while aerating be sure not to stir up anything on the bottom. I would recommend placing the air stone near the mid level of the tank if possible. Stirring anything up can a) make it worse b) create a new problem with an already stressed fish, and c) make it harder to diagnose. __________________ "Self quotation is the ultimate form of narcissism" -Me Current Tank Info: 79 gal reef, and 150 gal that's not set up ATM.

11/14/2014, 04:57 PM	#4
Nina51 biggliest cofveve champ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 5th floor, Illinois, gewgaw expert Posts: 3,506	air stones create a lot of salt creep and you will constantly be wiping up around the top of your tank and maybe even the wall behind it. you're better off to get a small power head, mount it a few inches below the water line and point it toward the top to get surface agitation. it sounds like you don't have a lot of water movement right now. __________________ of all the things i've lost, i miss my gary the most. Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine into your brain, and that is where crappy ideas come from. Current Tank Info: i gave my reef away and i feel like a bird out of a cage!!

11/14/2014, 06:05 PM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Your sandsifter probably should go back to the store: the type needs a larger tank, and it may starve, because it depends less on fishfood than on sifting garbage from a lot of sand. If he'll eat fishfood, that's ok, but if you don't see him eating it, be thinking about trading him for credit. Your others are ok, but you do need a very strong light, about 10000k, for that torch coral, plus weekly water changes of 10%. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/14/2014, 07:40 PM	#7
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	You have added too much livestock all at once, the tank isn't mature enough to handle all that bio-load.

11/14/2014, 09:46 PM	#10
jinks Registered Member Join Date: May 2010 Posts: 581	A real skimmer will replace that air stone and do something productive for your tank. Put a good powerhead in there and youll be in better shape too. Doesnt look like those really turn over that much water.

11/15/2014, 06:58 AM	#13
Nina51 biggliest cofveve champ Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: 5th floor, Illinois, gewgaw expert Posts: 3,506	now you can start imagining a graceful female figure sk8r. __________________ of all the things i've lost, i miss my gary the most. Never hold your farts in. They travel up your spine into your brain, and that is where crappy ideas come from. Current Tank Info: i gave my reef away and i feel like a bird out of a cage!!

11/15/2014, 10:01 AM	#14
Teenreefer15 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 479	I don't think your tank can handle the BIO load that your giving it. Maybe you can choose your least favorites and bring them back the store.

11/15/2014, 12:28 PM	#15
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	10000 k would a place to start for euphyllia [torch, hammer, frog], and would of course have to be suited to tank depth: it needs to be about 9" above water surface and in that size tank, 250 watt would mean keeping everything on the tank bottom. You MIGHT get by with a 6500k CFL floodlight in a shoplight clip, but I wouldn't bet on it thriving. Cheato will, however, on that lighting, and MAYBE softies would. There are just so many problems here at once it's hard to tell what to do first. Removing all inhabitants including corals and letting the tank recover might be the best, then add a small light and some hardy corals with a few crabs and gobies. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/15/2014, 04:09 PM	#16
DamonJ Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2014 Posts: 5	The fish are ok, I added a stone for two days, and adjusted the Eheim to point up to the surface. all good for now, I put another thread out there about my next steps with protein skimmers, reactors, and sumps.... thanks for the info....

11/15/2014, 05:53 PM	#17
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	GOod that the oxygen is increasing. What you've got is a nano tank, ie, quite small. I've run a successful tank with no more than a Penguiin filter (it was a 30 long) but it did have a lot of hair algae, and only housed a couple of small gobies and some mushrooms. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

11/15/2014, 08:46 PM	#18
garyinco Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Posts: 431	The Eheim skimming device you mention is not what most people think of as a skimmer. It certainly will help the surface of the water free of a film. What most consider to be a skimmer is something that injects air bubbles into a column of water and forces a foam at the top. The foam eventually spills over into some sort of collection area to be discarded at your convenience.The foam is very concentrated in organic proteins. Poop, pee and other waste elements. Think of the dingy foam you occasionally see washed on a lake shore or in nooks and crannies on a fast moving stream. Protein skimmers are very handy and popular in the saltwater hobby. It is certainly possible to run a tank without one. It takes more attention and maintenance without one though. A major side benefit is when you inject all that air into the device you're also saturating the water with oxygen. I would like to know which online retailer suggested adding all that stock at once on such a new tank. Look for a small powerhead pump. You LFSs should stock a number of them and they are very inexpensive. The maxijets are popular, the MJ series by a company named Cobalt Aquatics are better. I would put a powerhead in there before you do anything else. Later, look for a true protein skimmer. If you are close to some urban area then Craigslist is a good source for used ones. Get that powerhead now though! You and everything in the tank will appreciate it.

11/15/2014, 09:08 PM	#19
Teenreefer15 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Location: New Jersey Posts: 479	That eheim is a surface skimmer not a protein skimmer. I'd recommend you get a reef octopus HOB or an aqua remora skimmer unless you have a sump.