Help!!! Worm Infestation Problem.

[ReeFreak1]

I added some live rock last year and received a hitchhiker worm, which mainly live in the sand bed and I cannot get rid of. I thought it was a good thing as it immediately wiped out detritus. I have recently discovered that it doesn't immediately eat detritus; it just stores it under the sand bed for later consumption. I also think this is the reason that caused my Nitrate to go haywire. Their number is now humongous as they appear like my backyard unmowered lawn.

I need help identifying its specie and getting a good advice finding an active predator to keep it under control. It looks like a hair worm with a long body and hair tentacles. It is red in color. The body is hidden inside the sand and the tentacles are waving inside the water and looking for food. They multiply rapidly so cleaning the sand bed did not work.

The best picture I could find is in this link:

http://i285.photobucket.com/albums/l.../wrongcopy.jpg

Mark

[ReeFreak1]

Anyone with experience?

[cloak]

It looks like a common spaghetti worm to me. My DSB was full of these things years ago. They're actually a great part of your CUC.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/rs/index.php

[Betta132]

Never heard of them just storing gunk and not eating it. Not sure why that is...

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by cloak

It looks like a common spaghetti worm to me. My DSB was full of these things years ago. They're actually a great part of your CUC.

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/rs/index.php

Good info cloak. I guess I don't mind them being part of the CUC, but the problem is in their feeding behavior. They trap food particles under the sand bed, which causes a severe case of uncontrollable Nitrate. So if I agitate the sand bed, I get a storm of detritus dust waving through the tank. I need to get rid of them because they do more harm than good to my tank. I need to know what eats them. I got a six line wrasse, but it shows no interest in them. I am tired of doing large water changes, which never seem to help anyway. Any other suggestions.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by Betta132

Never heard of them just storing gunk and not eating it. Not sure why that is...

My worms are genetically modified! LOL.

I am certain that they consume the gunk eventually Betta, but they just trap too much of it before it gets to the filter. Their population is so large now that no matter what touches the sand bed, it would disappear inside the sand in less than a minute! It sound like a dream come true for some, but the fact is, my nitrifying bacteria gets to the gunk before it is consumed by the worms!

[Betta132]

Hmm... perhaps an arrow crab? They're dangerous to small fish, though.
What about a larger hermit crab of some kind? Most of the thicker-clawed varieties are too slow to be interested in fish.
Maybe you could pull a couple of them out and drop them in midwater to see if any fish look interested.
If they're multiplying like that, you have too much gunk. Maybe feed less? Offer food in a more efficient way, like adding a tiny bit at a time so the fish can eat it before it hits the sand?
Add sand-burrowing snails to uproot them and compete with them for food?

On a different subject, what fish is that in your icon? It's pretty, from what I can see of it.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by Betta132

Hmm... perhaps an arrow crab? They're dangerous to small fish, though.
What about a larger hermit crab of some kind? Most of the thicker-clawed varieties are too slow to be interested in fish.
Maybe you could pull a couple of them out and drop them in midwater to see if any fish look interested.
If they're multiplying like that, you have too much gunk. Maybe feed less? Offer food in a more efficient way, like adding a tiny bit at a time so the fish can eat it before it hits the sand?
Add sand-burrowing snails to uproot them and compete with them for food?

On a different subject, what fish is that in your icon? It's pretty, from what I can see of it.

Wow you listed many ideas! I will go through in the same sequence you did.

Arrow Crab? Don't like to risk it. I currently have 4 small hermit crabs. They are not interested. I had a red hermit crab who overgrew to carry a 4" shell. I couldn't feed it enough. I don't know if it was interested in the worms, but I gave it away after loosing a threadfin butterfly and a small bubble tip anemone, which he devoured! He was literally chasing fish around and cutting chunks of my sea anemone. Every now and then a worm floats around due to sand agitation. All fish pick and spit even if they were hungry. I do feed slowly and my fish have a healthy appetite so the food rarely hits the sand, but if it does, a fish will find it within seconds and it will be consumed before the worms get a chance. I overfeed twice a day but the food will be consumed within seconds. The main problem I have is with fish feces that the Hippo Tang would not be interested in eating! I do have a whole bunch of snails, but I don't know what specie they are. The do burrow in the sand though, but no help.

The fish in my Avatar is my Blue face angel fish getting teeth whitening at my cleaner shrimp dental clinic. LOL.

[Betta132]

Hmm, so apparently they taste bad to fish...
Is manual removal an option? I know you have a lot, but perhaps you could get a pair of the long-handled tweezers they make for planting aquariums. Get a whole bunch out and then regularly yank a few, perhaps.
Or maybe there's some kind of whelk that will eat them.
Aha- get a pistol shrimp or two, tiger pistols, and give them gobies so they'll be encouraged to make large burrows. The pistols will probably shoot and kill the worms; mine killed bristleworms and fed them to his goby. At the very least, they'll move the sand around and maybe clear some areas of the worms.
Perhaps it would help to not feed the tank for a few days. Excluding things like anthias, most fish are fine if they go a few days without food. At least it might encourage them to eat the worms.

Could you post a couple pictures of the tank to see what we're dealing with?

[bvaughn7]

Does anyone have any bristle worms, spaghetti worms, and/or micro-brittle stars I can get? I can pay for the shipping! Seeding a new tank that I started from dry rock and sand.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by Betta132

Hmm, so apparently they taste bad to fish...
Is manual removal an option? I know you have a lot, but perhaps you could get a pair of the long-handled tweezers they make for planting aquariums. Get a whole bunch out and then regularly yank a few, perhaps.
Or maybe there's some kind of whelk that will eat them.
Aha- get a pistol shrimp or two, tiger pistols, and give them gobies so they'll be encouraged to make large burrows. The pistols will probably shoot and kill the worms; mine killed bristleworms and fed them to his goby. At the very least, they'll move the sand around and maybe clear some areas of the worms.
Perhaps it would help to not feed the tank for a few days. Excluding things like anthias, most fish are fine if they go a few days without food. At least it might encourage them to eat the worms.

Could you post a couple pictures of the tank to see what we're dealing with?

Thanks for the input Betta. There are way too many worms to be able to remove with tweezers some of which are too small to catch. I have an engineer Goby who is constantly bulldozing the sand around, but the worms quickly sink back into the sand. I have purchased a gravel cleaner and a Moon wrasse. I will let you know how it works.

[shrimphead]

I would say the detritus is building up at the bottom naturally, not by the worms.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by shrimphead

I would say the detritus is building up at the bottom naturally, not by the worms.

I have introduced the worms through live rock addition a year ago. Prior to that, I did not have the problem of detritus inside the sand. Anything organic that drops on the bottom of the tank would quickly be pulled down inside the sand by the worms. If I agitate the same area, I can pull the same peice right out of the sand. What I used to do in the past is use a hose to siphon a large amount of worms. Of course, I have to pull a large amount of sand along, which I have to cure with fresh water to wash the worms away. The detritus problem would then disappear for about two weeks until the worms multiply again. This procedure is stressful to the fish so I don't do it often and it certainly doesn't solve my problem. I need to find a predator to these worms.

[ReeFreak1]

So finally I was able to take some photos. These worms are all over the sand bed with very high concentration as you can note in the photos. If you can view this many worms in such a small area, can you imagine how many are in the whole sand bed?

[smb2415]

I wish I had a bunch of those! my sand bed is rather empty

[smb2415]

++2 Ive been looking for the same for awhile.. only place Ive found is in hawaii and is pretty costly for just a few worms

Originally Posted by bvaughn7

Does anyone have any bristle worms, spaghetti worms, and/or micro-brittle stars I can get? I can pay for the shipping! Seeding a new tank that I started from dry rock and sand.

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by smb2415

++2 Ive been looking for the same for awhile.. only place Ive found is in hawaii and is pretty costly for just a few worms

Trust me you don't want those. I have bristle worms and other organisms and I'm fine with those, but my hair worm specie is evil and it's destroying my tank.

[gogo7]

my dsb is full of them....
here's some pics



http://i917.photobucket.com/albums/a...827_210948.jpg

big fat pregnant worms.

[Betta132]

That is impressive.
I would definitely suggest you get something to stir up the sandbed. Maybe a fighter conch? That should upset them, and it might end up eating some of their food.
Or, hmm... it's a definite risk, but a green brittle star might eat them? Or some kind of large hermit crab, those are highly opportunistic but tend to be a bit too slow to get fish.
Your best bet is probably to find something that just eats EVERYTHING, and either hope it'll leave your fish alone or temporarily move them.

There's an idea. How many fish do you have? Would it be possible to move them to a rubbermaid container in order to not feed the tank for a while? Perhaps move them to the refugium?

[shrimphead]

I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing you but I would say your grain size of sand looks way too large for a deep sand bed and therefore maybe the detritus isn't getting processed.

[lagatbezan]

Maybe increase the water flow at the bottom of the tank so that there is more water movement and less waste collected on the sand. The best way to reduce their population is by reducing their food source. Also reduce feedings for your fish for a little while. Your fish would be fine and it will starve most of the worms.
Lastly I know prazipro has a effect of some tube worms. I don't know if it have any effect on the type you are dealing with. But you can always setup a bucket and do a little experiment.

[bills tank]

Ok heres a way to get rid of them I did this unintentionally in one of my other reefs . Get a sand sifting starfish and they will all b gone . My son wanted one for his tank and it cleared them out fast . Now that is a way to get rid of them but I have too say that those worms r probably not the problem with whats going on . My reef has tons of them and they dont cause any problems for me they r actually sold for top dollar as someone else has said they r a great part of the cuc . Im thinking there is a different reason your water chemistry is off ? Maybe the rock u got had something else in it that is dead decaying in it or was in it and u haven't been able to get your water back in check since or it can b a different underlined reason why your water quality is doing poorly ? Id say that the worms r probably not the reason for whats goin on as me and many people I know haven't had this happen and we all have tons of these worms in r reefs infact one friend I know has so many of these worms its like his sandbed is covered with shag carpet lol but he has no problems caused by the worms another suggestion is too get a tiger tail sea cucumber to help clean your sandbed they work great for keeping your sand clean . Sorry to disagree with the worms being the cause and you could b right about it but I just have never heard of it before or seen it myself hope my suggestions help . Good luck.

[cloak]

Originally Posted by shrimphead

I don't want to sound like I'm criticizing you but I would say your grain size of sand looks way too large for a deep sand bed and therefore maybe the detritus isn't getting processed.

I disagree. If the micro fauna has anything to do with keeping a sand bed healthy, you have to take into consideration that not all of these creatures prefer fine sand. By catering to this discrepancy & mixing up the grain size, everybody kind of finds their own little niche.

Like mentioned above though, I highly doubt these worms are responsible for the detritus buildup. My DSB was full of these things too, and they did a hell of a job at keeping the substrate healthy and clean. Just as an example, when I would feed the tank the ground would move, literally. It was definitely a sight to see...

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-03/rs/

[ReeFreak1]

I bought a gravel cleaner, but it was useless as the worms were as heavy as the gravel so I could not catch them. I agitated the sand bed and got a huge amount of dirt floating around the tank so I don't dare doing this often as it is very stressful to the fish. The water was coffee dark, but fortunately, my mechanical filter took care of it quickly. Risking the life of my shrimps and other fragile invertebrates, I purchased a 3" Moon Wrasse, but I still don't think it is interested. It is a very pretty fish though. I still have hope that someone out there have a resolution to my dilemma!

[ReeFreak1]

Originally Posted by Betta132

That is impressive.
I would definitely suggest you get something to stir up the sandbed. Maybe a fighter conch? That should upset them, and it might end up eating some of their food.
Or, hmm... it's a definite risk, but a green brittle star might eat them? Or some kind of large hermit crab, those are highly opportunistic but tend to be a bit too slow to get fish.
Your best bet is probably to find something that just eats EVERYTHING, and either hope it'll leave your fish alone or temporarily move them.

There's an idea. How many fish do you have? Would it be possible to move them to a rubbermaid container in order to not feed the tank for a while? Perhaps move them to the refugium?

Wow. I like the idea of the separate container Betta. I'll have to look into that as I have to find a large enough one. Great ideas you have, thanks!