medium sized mantis for 60g?

tobesonthenose · 12/30/2014, 02:59 PM

I am really interested in getting a mantis shrimp and have been doing much research online and on "Roy's List". I have a 60g GLASS tank that is about 4' long x 2ft tall x 1' deep. It has an HOB filter and hob protein skimmer. No overflow or sump. (Marineland tank from Petsmart).

I would like a very active and interactive species that will be out of its den and utilizing much of the available space in the tank for foraging and lurking around. I would like the mantis to be the focal point of the tank and be out and about often.

I fear a peacock may chip my glass when it gets big so I would like one that is big but not big enough to damage tank. My finalists are a G. smithii (purple spot)or a Pseudosquillis ciliata (yellow mantis). Other suggestions welcomed too.

I know every mantis personality differs but if you have owned either or both of these species i would greatly appreciate your thoughts and comparasons.

I attached a pic of my tank. I figure i will rearrange some rock to provide a cave/den for it.

Also I have 2 Ocellaris clowns, one very large hermit (about the size of a tangerine), random small hermits and snails.

If it is highly likely one of these species will kill the fish I could rehome them before getting the mantis.

I am under the impression that generally the spearer can live with snails and crabs but not fish, and the smasher can live with fish rather than snails and crabs. I suppose if that is true I would rather have a clean up crew as opposed to having fish without a cuc.

Would the large hermit likely be killed by either of these even if the hermit is bigger than the mantis.

Sorry for so much info and rambling, really looking forward to getting one of these but just want be well prepared.

Thanks for your time

Calappidae · 12/30/2014, 05:04 PM

O. scyllarus would do fine. Lay an acrylic sheet on the bottom and you're good. Despite the possibility.. there really haven't been any random reports of stomatopods busting through aquariums. It usually only happens when they dig down and hit the bottom thinking rock, otherwise nothing really, outside documents and research showing the full capability it's almost a myth to ever actually happen.

Unforunately.. that setup is going to need alot of fixing with rockwork. Stomatopods have very specific molting requirements such as requiring a very dark burrow and rubble to close that burrow up.. the burrow should be large enough for their legs to easily touch both sides. You should use PVC pipe for this.

Problem is with G. smithii is they stay fairly small.. so even when active you'll have trouble finding it. P. ciliata changes color to match their surroundings so he may become a bit.. ugly to dedicate such a large setup for to say the least.

Don't house them with anything you'll miss. You can leave the clowns in there as there is a chance they'll be left alone but no guarentee. The hermit I'd take out just because it's big, bulky, and can hurt the stomatopod during molting periods. Something large like that may threaten the animal causing it to hide more.

The general rule of thumb of spearers eat fish, smashers eat crusteceans isn't entirely true.. it's more of their personal preference as smashers still have little daggers to spear fish with and spearers can still pry open shells. I had an O. scyllarus that let a damsel sleep in his burrow, while my other little gal of the same species killed my liverock dry. It does vary on personality.

tobesonthenose · 12/31/2014, 12:19 PM

Thanks Calappidae! I figured I would need to rearrange the rock work, I used to have a couple of large monos in there and set it up for them to have swimming room. I will probably go with an O. scyllaris then. Sounds like he will be out and seen more often than a smaller one.

Another question, I have 36w actinate lights (16" long bubs, 2 on each side of tank). Is this too much light for them? I see others mantis in reef set ups that I would assume have better lights than I. I only have a couple of small frags in there so if I had to I could go back to regular freshwater cheap lights that came with the tank although I would rather keep some more "life" in there with it.

There is a nice 2" O scyllaris at lfs here that I had a staring contest with the other day. May have to grab that guy.

Thanks for the response!

Gonodactylus · 12/31/2014, 03:16 PM

G. smithii and P. ciliata can stand a lot of light and this would not be a problem. If you go with a small O. scyllarus, I would cut back the light. Any O. scyllarus under 5 inches would pose no danger to your glass. If you use an in tank heater, stay away from glass.

Roy

tobesonthenose · 12/31/2014, 07:46 PM

Thanks for the advice Gonodactylus, I will be sure to use a plastic heater. Is either P. ciliata, O. scylarrus, or G. smithii more likely to utilize the upper part of the live rock in the aquarium more than another if my rock work is stacked kind of high? My tank is narrow and tall so i would like to utilize as much space as i can for it. If it prefers the to portion of tank as open swimming space I will rearrange the rock more.

Are all of these about the same as far as being active and out of the burrow?

With such a big tank I want to be able to see it often.

Thanks

Calappidae · 12/31/2014, 08:16 PM

They're about the same, O. scyllarus would be the more interactive of the two.

G. smithii will mostly spend it's time peeping out of it's cavity/burrow and when they're moving around, it's small so you'll hardly notice in a giant 60g. They're better off in like a small nano where you can easily spot them.

P. ciliata is very active spends most of it's time out and about.. but they don't really do anything "wow" for showcasing in such a large setup by itself.

Stomatopods generally prefer to be as low to the bottom as possible where it's darker. They may even reject an elevated burrow.

Gonodactylus · 01/01/2015, 05:48 PM

There are a few species that seem to prefer a 3-D world. Most are small and stick to their cavity (many of the Gonodactylellus, Haptosquilla and Chorisquilla). Neogonodactylus curacaoensis are often found in cavities up off the substrate and actively hunt among coral branches. A few Florida suppliers know this species and can catch them.

ROy

12/30/2014, 05:04 PM	#2
Calappidae Harlequin Shrimp Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Somewhere Posts: 3,814	O. scyllarus would do fine. Lay an acrylic sheet on the bottom and you're good. Despite the possibility.. there really haven't been any random reports of stomatopods busting through aquariums. It usually only happens when they dig down and hit the bottom thinking rock, otherwise nothing really, outside documents and research showing the full capability it's almost a myth to ever actually happen. Unforunately.. that setup is going to need alot of fixing with rockwork. Stomatopods have very specific molting requirements such as requiring a very dark burrow and rubble to close that burrow up.. the burrow should be large enough for their legs to easily touch both sides. You should use PVC pipe for this. Problem is with G. smithii is they stay fairly small.. so even when active you'll have trouble finding it. P. ciliata changes color to match their surroundings so he may become a bit.. ugly to dedicate such a large setup for to say the least. Don't house them with anything you'll miss. You can leave the clowns in there as there is a chance they'll be left alone but no guarentee. The hermit I'd take out just because it's big, bulky, and can hurt the stomatopod during molting periods. Something large like that may threaten the animal causing it to hide more. The general rule of thumb of spearers eat fish, smashers eat crusteceans isn't entirely true.. it's more of their personal preference as smashers still have little daggers to spear fish with and spearers can still pry open shells. I had an O. scyllarus that let a damsel sleep in his burrow, while my other little gal of the same species killed my liverock dry. It does vary on personality. __________________ Joe Last edited by Calappidae; 12/30/2014 at 05:09 PM.

12/31/2014, 12:19 PM	#3
tobesonthenose Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3	reply Thanks Calappidae! I figured I would need to rearrange the rock work, I used to have a couple of large monos in there and set it up for them to have swimming room. I will probably go with an O. scyllaris then. Sounds like he will be out and seen more often than a smaller one. Another question, I have 36w actinate lights (16" long bubs, 2 on each side of tank). Is this too much light for them? I see others mantis in reef set ups that I would assume have better lights than I. I only have a couple of small frags in there so if I had to I could go back to regular freshwater cheap lights that came with the tank although I would rather keep some more "life" in there with it. There is a nice 2" O scyllaris at lfs here that I had a staring contest with the other day. May have to grab that guy. Thanks for the response!

12/31/2014, 08:16 PM	#6
Calappidae Harlequin Shrimp Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Somewhere Posts: 3,814	They're about the same, O. scyllarus would be the more interactive of the two. G. smithii will mostly spend it's time peeping out of it's cavity/burrow and when they're moving around, it's small so you'll hardly notice in a giant 60g. They're better off in like a small nano where you can easily spot them. P. ciliata is very active spends most of it's time out and about.. but they don't really do anything "wow" for showcasing in such a large setup by itself. Stomatopods generally prefer to be as low to the bottom as possible where it's darker. They may even reject an elevated burrow. __________________ Joe

12/31/2014, 03:16 PM	#4
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	G. smithii and P. ciliata can stand a lot of light and this would not be a problem. If you go with a small O. scyllarus, I would cut back the light. Any O. scyllarus under 5 inches would pose no danger to your glass. If you use an in tank heater, stay away from glass. Roy

12/31/2014, 07:46 PM	#5
tobesonthenose Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 3	Thanks for the advice Gonodactylus, I will be sure to use a plastic heater. Is either P. ciliata, O. scylarrus, or G. smithii more likely to utilize the upper part of the live rock in the aquarium more than another if my rock work is stacked kind of high? My tank is narrow and tall so i would like to utilize as much space as i can for it. If it prefers the to portion of tank as open swimming space I will rearrange the rock more. Are all of these about the same as far as being active and out of the burrow? With such a big tank I want to be able to see it often. Thanks

01/01/2015, 05:48 PM	#7
Gonodactylus Premium Member Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Berkeley, CA, USA Posts: 5,024	There are a few species that seem to prefer a 3-D world. Most are small and stick to their cavity (many of the Gonodactylellus, Haptosquilla and Chorisquilla). Neogonodactylus curacaoensis are often found in cavities up off the substrate and actively hunt among coral branches. A few Florida suppliers know this species and can catch them. ROy