10 year veteran looking for EXPERT advice - Page 2

Mishri · 01/21/2015, 05:37 PM

You might not see stuff on your bio balls but I'll bet if you run your fingers over them you'll feel stuff on them.

I've had the best luck eliminating cyano by directing my powerheads at the spots it likes to grow (usually grows in deadzones) turning your power heads off at night might be part of it. -From what I understand fish don't need a break, in the ocean there is tons of current constantly moving them around, stagnant water probably makes them feel sea-sick

You keep saying, I've been doing this for so many years so it can't be the issue. Yet, if nothing has changed in all these years something is an issue.

Also.. I think that's coralline algea, it's good.. hehe j/k

niles1967 · 01/21/2015, 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mishri

You might not see stuff on your bio balls but I'll bet if you run your fingers over them you'll feel stuff on them.

I've had the best luck eliminating cyano by directing my powerheads at the spots it likes to grow (usually grows in deadzones) turning your power heads off at night might be part of it. -From what I understand fish don't need a break, in the ocean there is tons of current constantly moving them around, stagnant water probably makes them feel sea-sick

You keep saying, I've been doing this for so many years so it can't be the issue. Yet, if nothing has changed in all these years something is an issue.

Also.. I think that's coralline algea, it's good.. hehe j/k

I think that the only thing that has changed over the years is that the fish and subsequent feedings have been growing larger.

Tomorrow I will clean the bioballs.

Interestedly, I still don't think I ever got a consensus on the original question: Can I safely remove the existing live rock? Specifically. are the micron fiber, /bioballs/skimmer enough?

slief · 01/21/2015, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by niles1967

I think that the only thing that has changed over the years is that the fish and subsequent feedings have been growing larger.

Tomorrow I will clean the bioballs.

Interestedly, I still don't think I ever got a consensus on the original question: Can I safely remove the existing live rock? Specifically. are the micron fiber, /bioballs/skimmer enough?

You got answers. You can remove them. If you do so, do it one rock at a time over the course of several weeks. The bio balls are likely enough but the rocks are providing a biological surface that is bigger than you realize. If it were me, I'd probably replace them if I were going to remove them but the rocks aren't your issue. Flow or a lack of in those areas are why it's collecting on them. As mentioned above, directing flow towards them will go along way in eliminating the cyano in those areas. Addressing your nutrient issue will go further in reducing the chances of it coming back. As such, cleaning your bio balls, vacuuming any detritus or stuff that is under the bio balls and elsewhere in your sump and overflow will also help. Water changes will be another step in reducing the nutrients combined with better Po4 management and monitoring will help as well.

As for your micron filter media.. That is a gray area. If you aren't changing that out every few days or week at most, that will contribute to your nutrient problems and feed the cyano.

Reef Frog · 01/21/2015, 09:02 PM

If you have no coral or sensitive inverts to worry about, have you considered dipping & scrubbing briefly the live rock outside the tank in a hydrogen peroxide solition?

Then up the water changes & run carbon & GFO for a while. Run some more mechanical filtration and do another lights out period & try skimming wet. I think the combination of tactics should do the trick. Good luck.

Grayson84 · 01/21/2015, 10:14 PM

This is without a doubt a high nutrient system with a a lot of large fish that driving the P04 levels through the roof, also bio balls, and bad lighting are not helping.

That being said I agree with most what is being said definitely remove those bio balls and rig up some filter socks some way in your sump they will be much easier to clean you can just put them in the washing machine with clean hot water. Second start using GFO you can get it on Ebay for a reasonably cheap your system is likely going to run through quickly until you get your PO4 levels get under control. A good PO4 test kit will help a lot I use the Hanna checkers and they have worked great for me you should be running under .03 in your case you may be able to run a little higher. Last get rid of those Home Depot lights that your running they for certain a huge contributing factor in your struggle.

I hope this helps you can tell me F*&^ off but I delt with the same problems and that how I fixed it.

Cheers

slief · 01/21/2015, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grayson84

This is without a doubt a high nutrient system with a a lot of large fish that driving the P04 levels through the roof, also bio balls, and bad lighting are not helping.

That being said I agree with most what is being said definitely remove those bio balls and rig up some filter socks some way in your sump they will be much easier to clean you can just put them in the washing machine with clean hot water. Second start using GFO you can get it on Ebay for a reasonably cheap your system is likely going to run through quickly until you get your PO4 levels get under control. A good PO4 test kit will help a lot I use the Hanna checkers and they have worked great for me you should be running under .03 in your case you may be able to run a little higher. Last get rid of those Home Depot lights that your running they for certain a huge contributing factor in your struggle.

I hope this helps you can tell me F*&^ off but I delt with the same problems and that how I fixed it.

Cheers

All great advice but in his case, I think getting rid of the bio balls would be a huge mistake that would lead to bigger issues down the line. The problem is he doesn't have much live rock in his system to begin with which means that other than his bio balls, he doesn't have much biological filtration which is hugely important for his fish system. The only way I would condone removing the bio balls would be with the addition of 100 + pounds of live rock or massive weekly water changes to the tune of 75-100% a month. I've had large fish only systems and even my reef tank is stocked with lots of big and small fish that are heavily fed every day. That biological filtration is probably the most important aspect of a big system in my opinion. For a fish only system, bio balls work just fine. You just need to keep them clean along with the sump. If this was a reef tank, I'd be singing a different story and pushing live rock but alas, it's not. Been there done that. I had a very healthy fish only system with sharks and eels in a tank that saw pounds of food a day and the bio balls worked just fine.

rgulrich · 01/22/2015, 05:27 AM

Just out of curiosity, or perhaps I missed it, what are you running for filtration beyond the bioballs and the micron fiber? Do you have a (for this apparent fish load) large/oversized protein skimmer? Do you use any activated carbon? How about gfo? And the post a few up on the algae filter/algae turf scrubber isn't a bad idea either to export nutrients.

As has been alluded to by others, it's a nutrient export issue you're dealing with, and while you're not running a reef you are carrying on heck of a fish load, so you need to be aggressive with your filtration approach and really oxygenate the heck out of the water column. If it were me, I'd probably focus first on over-sizing a skimmer and running it for a few weeks (along with your routine maintenance) and see what happens. After that, try to target other facets of export through consistent use of chemical media (activated carbon, phosban, gfo, Polyfilter, etc) and then possibly incorporate a large algae scrubber.

Two rupee' worth.

Cheers,
Ray

Mishri · 01/22/2015, 11:41 AM

The other thing to consider, since this is a fish only system.. Do you even really care that you have cyano? I've left patches of it in one of my tanks before and I didn't really care.. just something else in the tank. (I always got it on the sand, not the rocks, as my rocks had plenty of flow).. I'd suck it up with a vacuum siphon once a week and let it regrow.. no big dealio.

karm40 · 01/22/2015, 11:52 AM

When you do a water change you can vacuum out the cyano from the rocks. this can help a bit...

tripdad · 01/22/2015, 11:57 AM

What's the possibility of adding either a bio block or some good live rock to your sump and letting it seed and become part of your filtration before removing tank rock? Is there room for it?

Paul B · 01/22/2015, 02:00 PM

I used to get cyano a lot but never see it any longer. What I used to do was first use ChemiClean (yes I know you used it) Then in a day, the cyano will die and I take my diatom filter, as all of us old timers with a lot of experience has at least one (I have 5) Suck out the cyano. Then turn up your Ozonizer (which all of us old timers also have but I know you don't) But you asked for experienced people. My tank was started when Nixon was President, he was after Lincoln

01/22/2015, 05:27 AM	#32
rgulrich greybeard Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: MD Posts: 893	Just out of curiosity, or perhaps I missed it, what are you running for filtration beyond the bioballs and the micron fiber? Do you have a (for this apparent fish load) large/oversized protein skimmer? Do you use any activated carbon? How about gfo? And the post a few up on the algae filter/algae turf scrubber isn't a bad idea either to export nutrients. As has been alluded to by others, it's a nutrient export issue you're dealing with, and while you're not running a reef you are carrying on heck of a fish load, so you need to be aggressive with your filtration approach and really oxygenate the heck out of the water column. If it were me, I'd probably focus first on over-sizing a skimmer and running it for a few weeks (along with your routine maintenance) and see what happens. After that, try to target other facets of export through consistent use of chemical media (activated carbon, phosban, gfo, Polyfilter, etc) and then possibly incorporate a large algae scrubber. Two rupee' worth. Cheers, Ray __________________ The true sign of intelligence is not knowledge but imagination. Albert Einstein Current Tank Info: 360 degree walk around 300 DD island–4 300W & 2 165W ViparSpectra, 4 Kessil A350W, 2 A360WE, 3 XF150, 1 XF250, 1 XF350 Gyre along with 2 PP40 and 2 IceCap 3K gyre for robust current. Basement 150 gallon RubberMaid sump, SKIMZ skimmer, DCP18000

01/22/2015, 02:00 PM	#36
Paul B Premium Member Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Long Island NY Posts: 15,549	I used to get cyano a lot but never see it any longer. What I used to do was first use ChemiClean (yes I know you used it) Then in a day, the cyano will die and I take my diatom filter, as all of us old timers with a lot of experience has at least one (I have 5) Suck out the cyano. Then turn up your Ozonizer (which all of us old timers also have but I know you don't) But you asked for experienced people. My tank was started when Nixon was President, he was after Lincoln __________________ I used to get shocked when I put my hand in my tank. Then the electric eel went dead. Current Tank Info: 100 gal reef set up in 1971

01/21/2015, 05:37 PM	#26
Mishri Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Great Falls, MT Posts: 1,404	You might not see stuff on your bio balls but I'll bet if you run your fingers over them you'll feel stuff on them. I've had the best luck eliminating cyano by directing my powerheads at the spots it likes to grow (usually grows in deadzones) turning your power heads off at night might be part of it. -From what I understand fish don't need a break, in the ocean there is tons of current constantly moving them around, stagnant water probably makes them feel sea-sick You keep saying, I've been doing this for so many years so it can't be the issue. Yet, if nothing has changed in all these years something is an issue. Also.. I think that's coralline algea, it's good.. hehe j/k

01/21/2015, 09:02 PM	#29
Reef Frog Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2013 Location: Maryland Posts: 3,121	If you have no coral or sensitive inverts to worry about, have you considered dipping & scrubbing briefly the live rock outside the tank in a hydrogen peroxide solition? Then up the water changes & run carbon & GFO for a while. Run some more mechanical filtration and do another lights out period & try skimming wet. I think the combination of tactics should do the trick. Good luck.

01/21/2015, 10:14 PM	#30
Grayson84 Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2013 Location: Central PA Posts: 95	This is without a doubt a high nutrient system with a a lot of large fish that driving the P04 levels through the roof, also bio balls, and bad lighting are not helping. That being said I agree with most what is being said definitely remove those bio balls and rig up some filter socks some way in your sump they will be much easier to clean you can just put them in the washing machine with clean hot water. Second start using GFO you can get it on Ebay for a reasonably cheap your system is likely going to run through quickly until you get your PO4 levels get under control. A good PO4 test kit will help a lot I use the Hanna checkers and they have worked great for me you should be running under .03 in your case you may be able to run a little higher. Last get rid of those Home Depot lights that your running they for certain a huge contributing factor in your struggle. I hope this helps you can tell me F*&^ off but I delt with the same problems and that how I fixed it. Cheers

01/22/2015, 11:41 AM	#33
Mishri Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: Great Falls, MT Posts: 1,404	The other thing to consider, since this is a fish only system.. Do you even really care that you have cyano? I've left patches of it in one of my tanks before and I didn't really care.. just something else in the tank. (I always got it on the sand, not the rocks, as my rocks had plenty of flow).. I'd suck it up with a vacuum siphon once a week and let it regrow.. no big dealio.

01/22/2015, 11:52 AM	#34
karm40 Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: So Cal Posts: 604	When you do a water change you can vacuum out the cyano from the rocks. this can help a bit...

01/22/2015, 11:57 AM	#35
tripdad Frustrated Stick Gardener Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: near chicago,Ill. Posts: 701	What's the possibility of adding either a bio block or some good live rock to your sump and letting it seed and become part of your filtration before removing tank rock? Is there room for it?