The purpose of a clean-up crew is NOT to eat up all algae...

Sk8r · 03/07/2015, 11:58 AM

It's to eat what little algae it can and poo into your sandbed to get it ready for fish. That's why you let it work for 4 weeks while you qt your first fish for 4 weeks.

What causes algae is algae that comes in with live stuff, or floats in from the air, I swear (I used to live on a lake)---combined with the phosphate mineral that comes in with your sand and rock and that will continue to soak out for months.

What removes phosphate is GFO medium in a reactor. When phosphate gets scarce, so will pest algae. Why is pest algae pest algae? Because it outgrows all other algaes and uses more phosphate than anything else. Scarce phosphate, pest algae doesn't thrive. Period. Your rocks will go bald as eggs again and that nasty film on your glass will occur less often.

Nuff said.

nmotz · 03/07/2015, 12:05 PM

This is an important point because I know when I first got into the hobby I thought that CUCs could take care of big algae problems. They can't. Sure they polish some trouble spots, but mostly they are just there to stir the sand, clean up a little excess detritus, and maybe add some character to the tank.

Dmorty217 · 03/07/2015, 12:10 PM

CUC are for eating extra food that sits in the tank and taking care of the "disappearing" fish

CStrickland · 03/07/2015, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

It's to eat what little algae it can and poo into your sandbed to get it ready for fish. That's why you let it work for 4 weeks while you qt your first fish for 4 weeks.

Why would I want a bunch of poo in the sand? I'm trying to keep it out so it doesn't rot there and fertilize algae.

My nassarius are dorbles, they come out like zombies and eat the leftover food before they can rot. If they weren't so creepy I'd get a serpent star to do it instead. The ceriths get into some hard to reach places and redeposit the nutrients as poop in places I can get to with my sand vac.

KabayanReef · 03/07/2015, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

It's to eat what little algae it can and poo into your sandbed to get it ready for fish. That's why you let it work for 4 weeks while you qt your first fish for 4 weeks.

From a beginner's point of view, I guess this misleading info. is used as a marketing strategy for quick buck. I speak from experience as I recall months ago the amazement it brought me when an "expert" staff from my LFS suckered me in to buying a red knob sea star. His exact words: "One of these is enough to clean films of algae on glass". Needless to say I bought it in a heartbeat without research only to find out later none of it was true.

Sk8r · 03/07/2015, 01:47 PM

Yep. There are a handful of suppositions about cleanup crews and algae that keep making the rounds. My favorite is: OMG-I-have-bubble-algae...immediately eliciting two responses. OMG-remove-it-carefully-so-as-not-to-pop-the-bubbles followed by (in the same post) Get-a-mithrax-crab-to-eat-it.
Mithrax crab pincers are super small, and so are their mouthparts.

gone fishin · 03/07/2015, 01:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Yep. There are a handful of suppositions about cleanup crews and algae that keep making the rounds. My favorite is: OMG-I-have-bubble-algae...immediately eliciting two responses. OMG-remove-it-carefully-so-as-not-to-pop-the-bubbles followed by (in the same post) Get-a-mithrax-crab-to-eat-it.
Mithrax crab pincers are super small, and so are their mouthparts.

That is one of my favorites.

QuiGonJay · 03/07/2015, 01:55 PM

Just curious, So how should one remove bubble algae? Or are a few bubble algae pods not a big deal?

Shadowflynt · 03/07/2015, 02:07 PM

Am looking for the same answer for the bubble algae but from what I could find, leaving it will cause an outbreak as the bubbles are full of spores (hence the reason to be careful about popping them) and they will eventually burst themselves (or maybe it meant eventually something would break the bubbles). I hope this info is wrong but have seen on several sites where that is stated.

EDIT : That was info on Green Bubble Algae, not sure if there is other bubble algae or not

gone fishin · 03/07/2015, 02:15 PM

I try to pluck them of whole, just because it makes them easier to get out. I have been hit or miss with emerald crabs and sometimes they just go away. I do know my Foxface Lo will chow down on them but, I do not recommend just adding things to get rid of something.

Sk8r · 03/07/2015, 02:20 PM

They really, truly are not a big deal. They often appear just after you get rid of the hair algae, and may pop up from time to time when the tank gets a bit too much nutrient, particularly (I suspect) phosphate, but it is certainly not an emergency. I find that visitors most frequently are enchanted by bubble algae and love it better than the fish---frustrating as it may be. My advice is just relax, enjoy the texture, continue to mop up the phosphate, and expect it to go away. When your water quality hits what I have in my sig line (with a little but not a lot of phosphate) you just won't have the problem. I did have a cluster of 3 last year, and was amused when one began growing. It reached near golf ball size, then burst, I removed the cluster manually during a cleaning. And haven't seen any until last week, a tiny bit, which I cleaned off manually, and i don't expect it ever to be a problem. If your tank is covered in the stuff, you have a water quality issue of some sort.

KabayanReef · 03/07/2015, 04:17 PM

Mr. Paul B. said it best and I quote " I submit that algae cannot be cured because it is not a disease. . .It grows in the sea on everything - as it should. To my way of thinking, a little algae is a good sign, not something to go crazy about."

Neglecting proper husbandry is what, in most cases, breaks a tank relative to algae outbreaks anyways.

edinphilly · 03/07/2015, 04:45 PM

CUC can do many different things depending on what you use and your specific tank. My pet peeve is LFS (and online CUC specialty stores) that sell you too much. Let's say they design the right CUC for you tank with all the right critters (and forget that they often don't even get this right). If they sell you too many, which seems to be the case, it becomes a perpetual CUC "cycle" where some starve, die, cause excess nutrients which lead to some kind of algae bloom. So back to the store for more CUC to restart this CUC "cycle"!!!!

This frustrated me a lot when I was new. Less is more with CUC. And slowly build up. What you need at one year will be more than at month 2. Which is why CUC "packages" by tank size are stupid. They must be profitable though the way they get hard sold.

Rant over.

edinphilly · 03/07/2015, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KabayanReef

Mr. Paul B. said it best and I quote " I submit that algae cannot be cured because it is not a disease. . .It grows in the sea on everything - as it should. To my way of thinking, a little algae is a good sign, not something to go crazy about."

Neglecting proper husbandry is what, in most cases, breaks a tank relative to algae outbreaks anyways.

+1

I love Paul B's tank and posts, and style. Too many people give their opinions as fact without the history to back it up. I LOVE how the oldest tank on here flies in the face of conventional "wisdom."

CStrickland · 03/07/2015, 04:50 PM

Yup.
LFS: "oh, you have some green in a 3 month old tank? Here buy this sea hare! Cha-ching"

FraggledRock · 03/07/2015, 05:27 PM

i like cyano and "nuissance" algae.

they help keep phosphates down =P

KabayanReef · 03/07/2015, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edinphilly

+1

I love Paul B's tank and posts, and style. Too many people give their opinions as fact without the history to back it up. I LOVE how the oldest tank on here flies in the face of conventional "wisdom."

The most inspiring reefer I have ever seen/read. I sometimes wonder if I have the endurance to continue reefing for 20 years, let alone having a tank last for that long. Insane!

I consider it a dream of mine to be honest , to visit his tank and witness 40yrs of reefing in person. Imagine all the stories and lessons he has to share, unreplicable legend.

** Sorry for getting off topic sk8r

SavingOurSeas · 03/08/2015, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edinphilly

+1

I love Paul B's tank and posts, and style. Too many people give their opinions as fact without the history to back it up. I LOVE how the oldest tank on here flies in the face of conventional "wisdom."

What (where) is the oldest system on here?

SavingOurSeas · 03/08/2015, 11:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

...truly are not a big deal... certainly not an emergency...relax, enjoy the texture, continue to mop up the phosphate, and expect it to go away...If your tank is covered in the stuff, you have a water quality issue of some sort.

What does your process consist of in "Mopping up the phosphate."

I have recently undertaken a new system that is completely crashed (little to no livestock remaining) and I'm looking/listening for new ways to handle situations.

edinphilly · 03/08/2015, 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SavingOurSeas

What (where) is the oldest system on here?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=1711320

Member Paul B has a thread about his "35 year old tank" and the thread is now almost 10 years old so his tank is approaching 45 yrs. I love reading through his threads.

Jeremiah_Conway · 03/09/2015, 02:16 AM

Well said

firemountain · 03/09/2015, 09:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

i like cyano and "nuissance" algae.

they help keep phosphates down =P

Not sure If I like this statement....Sorry. Nothing personal.

Algae growth will give you a false positive reading on your phosphates. Guys with big algae problems will not see high numbers with their phosphates.

After started running GFO.....I saw my algae on the glass not form as quickly as it used to, and the hair algae on my sandbed went away.

Once that was accomplished....my phospohate reading were then still a bit higher. It was only then that I started to see my phosphates come down. That is why you will hear guys recommend the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker and not their regular phosphate checker.

With SPS, higher phosphates are not good.

FraggledRock · 03/09/2015, 09:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by firemountain

Not sure If I like this statement....Sorry. Nothing personal.
Algae growth will give you a false positive reading on your phosphates.

After started running GFO.....I saw my algae on the glass not form as quickly as it used to, and the hair algae on my sandbed went away.

Once that was accomplished....my phospohate reading were then still a bit higher. It was only then that I started to see my phosphates come down. That is why you will hear guys recommend the Hanna ULR phosphorus checker and not their regular phosphate checker.

With SPS, higher phosphates are not good.

it was sarcasm...

DaveRaz · 03/09/2015, 10:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FraggledRock

it was sarcasm...

This type of posting leads to confusion for those new to the hobby. Find farmersonly.com or something to show off your wit. Lmao

FraggledRock · 03/09/2015, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveRaz

This type of posting leads to confusion for those new to the hobby. Find farmersonly.com or something to show off your wit. Lmao

ok =/

03/07/2015, 11:58 AM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	The purpose of a clean-up crew is NOT to eat up all algae... It's to eat what little algae it can and poo into your sandbed to get it ready for fish. That's why you let it work for 4 weeks while you qt your first fish for 4 weeks. What causes algae is algae that comes in with live stuff, or floats in from the air, I swear (I used to live on a lake)---combined with the phosphate mineral that comes in with your sand and rock and that will continue to soak out for months. What removes phosphate is GFO medium in a reactor. When phosphate gets scarce, so will pest algae. Why is pest algae pest algae? Because it outgrows all other algaes and uses more phosphate than anything else. Scarce phosphate, pest algae doesn't thrive. Period. Your rocks will go bald as eggs again and that nasty film on your glass will occur less often. Nuff said. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/07/2015, 12:05 PM	#2
nmotz Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2012 Location: FL, USA Posts: 1,433	This is an important point because I know when I first got into the hobby I thought that CUCs could take care of big algae problems. They can't. Sure they polish some trouble spots, but mostly they are just there to stir the sand, clean up a little excess detritus, and maybe add some character to the tank. __________________ Mantis shrimp are the best! Current Tank Info: 20L Peacock mantis shrimp tank

03/07/2015, 12:10 PM	#3
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	CUC are for eating extra food that sits in the tank and taking care of the "disappearing" fish __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

03/07/2015, 01:47 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Yep. There are a handful of suppositions about cleanup crews and algae that keep making the rounds. My favorite is: OMG-I-have-bubble-algae...immediately eliciting two responses. OMG-remove-it-carefully-so-as-not-to-pop-the-bubbles followed by (in the same post) Get-a-mithrax-crab-to-eat-it. Mithrax crab pincers are super small, and so are their mouthparts. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/07/2015, 02:07 PM	#9
Shadowflynt Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Posts: 9	Am looking for the same answer for the bubble algae but from what I could find, leaving it will cause an outbreak as the bubbles are full of spores (hence the reason to be careful about popping them) and they will eventually burst themselves (or maybe it meant eventually something would break the bubbles). I hope this info is wrong but have seen on several sites where that is stated. EDIT : That was info on Green Bubble Algae, not sure if there is other bubble algae or not __________________ Wasted my time on RC

03/07/2015, 01:55 PM	#8
QuiGonJay Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2014 Posts: 327	Just curious, So how should one remove bubble algae? Or are a few bubble algae pods not a big deal?

03/07/2015, 02:15 PM	#10
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	I try to pluck them of whole, just because it makes them easier to get out. I have been hit or miss with emerald crabs and sometimes they just go away. I do know my Foxface Lo will chow down on them but, I do not recommend just adding things to get rid of something. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

03/07/2015, 02:20 PM	#11
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	They really, truly are not a big deal. They often appear just after you get rid of the hair algae, and may pop up from time to time when the tank gets a bit too much nutrient, particularly (I suspect) phosphate, but it is certainly not an emergency. I find that visitors most frequently are enchanted by bubble algae and love it better than the fish---frustrating as it may be. My advice is just relax, enjoy the texture, continue to mop up the phosphate, and expect it to go away. When your water quality hits what I have in my sig line (with a little but not a lot of phosphate) you just won't have the problem. I did have a cluster of 3 last year, and was amused when one began growing. It reached near golf ball size, then burst, I removed the cluster manually during a cleaning. And haven't seen any until last week, a tiny bit, which I cleaned off manually, and i don't expect it ever to be a problem. If your tank is covered in the stuff, you have a water quality issue of some sort. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/07/2015, 04:17 PM	#12
KabayanReef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Middle east Posts: 158	Mr. Paul B. said it best and I quote " I submit that algae cannot be cured because it is not a disease. . .It grows in the sea on everything - as it should. To my way of thinking, a little algae is a good sign, not something to go crazy about." Neglecting proper husbandry is what, in most cases, breaks a tank relative to algae outbreaks anyways. __________________ What is a word made up of 4 letters, yet is also made up of 3. Although is written with 8 letters, and then with 4. Rarely consists of 6, and never is written with 5.

03/07/2015, 04:45 PM	#13
edinphilly Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2014 Posts: 333	CUC can do many different things depending on what you use and your specific tank. My pet peeve is LFS (and online CUC specialty stores) that sell you too much. Let's say they design the right CUC for you tank with all the right critters (and forget that they often don't even get this right). If they sell you too many, which seems to be the case, it becomes a perpetual CUC "cycle" where some starve, die, cause excess nutrients which lead to some kind of algae bloom. So back to the store for more CUC to restart this CUC "cycle"!!!! This frustrated me a lot when I was new. Less is more with CUC. And slowly build up. What you need at one year will be more than at month 2. Which is why CUC "packages" by tank size are stupid. They must be profitable though the way they get hard sold. Rant over.

03/07/2015, 04:50 PM	#15
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Yup. LFS: "oh, you have some green in a 3 month old tank? Here buy this sea hare! Cha-ching"

03/07/2015, 05:27 PM	#16
FraggledRock Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: New York, New York Posts: 2,185	i like cyano and "nuissance" algae. they help keep phosphates down =P __________________ “For most of history, man has had to fight nature to survive; in this century he is beginning to realize that, in order to survive, he must protect it.”― Jacques-Yves Cousteau MarineBio.org Current Tank Info: 40 Gallon Breeder w/ Bean Animal Overflow 20G Sump, Mixed Reef.

03/09/2015, 02:16 AM	#21
Jeremiah_Conway Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 133	Well said