DI resin exhausted fast with a tds of 3-4 going in - Page 3

kc350twin · 11/19/2013, 09:26 PM

Chilwil84

I noticed a few posts back that you said you used water before your water treatment system/Calcite. Can I ask why you don't use treated water through your RO/DI unit?

kc350twin · 11/19/2013, 09:27 PM

Wow this thread is old.

Buckeye Hydro · 11/20/2013, 03:16 AM

Assuming your water temperature is around 60 F, you have about 23 ppm CO2 - and as you're seeing, that will nuke your DI resin very quickly. Have to thought about degassing your water?

Cole_lol · 11/20/2013, 08:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeFS

Assuming your water temperature is around 60 F, you have about 23 ppm CO2 - and as you're seeing, that will nuke your DI resin very quickly. Have to thought about degassing your water?

Ya the co2 level was what I got when I went thru a calculator. I am guessing we are wanting as close to zero as possible?

I have thought at degassing the water I have read that installing a air bubbler in my RO holding tank and useing a doseing pump to push it thru the di portion. And some other drawings I saw same consept but used a PVC pipe with a nipple at the top to feed the di portion. What is the best method of degassing the water?

Cole_lol · 11/20/2013, 08:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc350twin

Wow this thread is old.

Haha yes it is. I forgot about it and went to run di again and it killed it so fast it reminded me of this.

kc350twin · 11/20/2013, 08:21 AM

Degassing does make a dramatic difference. I held mine in a 32gal brute then a air stone for 24hrs then a maxi-jet to push it thru the DI. Nice and slow. The DI resin would barely change color at 50gal mark.

I since have a water treatment system and when my neutralizer is relatively new I can make about 200gal of water per DI cartridge.

@BFS
Is there any reason that I should not be running the RO/DI after the water treatment system? It consists of a neutralizer(Calciteand Mag-oxide) and water softner with salt (Morton's) and a middle unit that removes the Radium in the well water but I can't remember of the top of my head the name of the unit.

Thanks.

Buckeye Hydro · 11/20/2013, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cole_lol

Ya the co2 level was what I got when I went thru a calculator. I am guessing we are wanting as close to zero as possible?

I have thought at degassing the water I have read that installing a air bubbler in my RO holding tank and useing a doseing pump to push it thru the di portion. And some other drawings I saw same consept but used a PVC pipe with a nipple at the top to feed the di portion. What is the best method of degassing the water?

You can make it as automated/complex as you'd like, but really it is no more complicated than aerating your RO water before you run it through the DI.

Russ

Buckeye Hydro · 11/20/2013, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc350twin

Is there any reason that I should not be running the RO/DI after the water treatment system? It consists of a neutralizer(Calciteand Mag-oxide) and water softner with salt (Morton's) and a middle unit that removes the Radium in the well water but I can't remember of the top of my head the name of the unit.

Thanks.

Sounds like you have some pretty rough water. Yes - run the RODI after the treatment system.

Russ

Cole_lol · 11/20/2013, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BuckeyeFS

You can make it as automated/complex as you'd like, but really it is no more complicated than aerating your RO water before you run it through the DI.

Russ

Once it is degassed what is an acceptable co2 level? I imagine 0 is what we want to shoot for but is that obtainable.

Buckeye Hydro · 11/21/2013, 04:48 AM

Quote:

I imagine 0 is what we want to shoot for

Right

chilwil84 · 11/27/2013, 08:11 PM

i tapped off my line to an outdoor hosebib because it was close by(and with over 600 gallons of tanks at the time why use up my calcite). i have since found out that all i need to do is bubble it with air for 24 hrs and than pump it through my di and all things are grand. i have pumped well over 1200 gallons through my di and its only half exhausted. i am lucky though because my well water is very clean (it comes from under the pinebarrens in nj) so it comes out before my di at 6-9 tds

YoungREEFA · 11/27/2013, 09:18 PM

Jeez my incoming tap is 600 !

chilwil84 · 11/27/2013, 09:23 PM

mine just eats through metal with a super low ph

Buckeye Hydro · 11/28/2013, 04:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chilwil84

mine just eats through metal with a super low ph

There are whole-house solutions for low pH water.

Russ

chilwil84 · 11/28/2013, 09:32 AM

yup calcite i am just happy i dont have to have a salt system to

diggler93 · 04/09/2015, 05:35 AM

Hoping to revisit this thread.

I too am on a well, and I am exhausting resin way too quickly. I have about 110ppm coming out of my tap. I recently upgraded my RO membrane to the 99% Spectrapure 90gpd unit. That is getting me 3ppm going into my DI Resin, yet the output after the resin rises past 0 ppm after only about 60 gallons of water.

I would absolutely setup a degasser, however I just don't have the room for it.

Are there any other options out there?

Would I see any extended life if I purchased a premium resin from Spectrapure, or would it become exhausted just as quickly due to CO2?

I'm sure this isn't possible or someone would have thought of it, but why can't we just add an additional RO membrane inline after the first? One would think that this would reduce the output from the membranes to near 0 levels without the need for resin? Obviously it isn't that simple, just wondering why.

thanks in advance.

Buckeye Hydro · 04/09/2015, 05:37 AM

If CO2 is your issue, this dissolved gas is not removed by an RO membrane.

diggler93 · 04/10/2015, 05:48 AM

Yes, I understand that the RO membrane wouldn't remove any TDS, but would it not bring the TDS down to a point where DI Resin wouldn't be needed?

My RO membrane drops my TDS from 115 in, to about 3-4 out. If I put another inline would that not get rid of the remaining 3-4 TDS?

Just curious as to why this wouldn't work is all.

Buckeye Hydro · 04/10/2015, 06:28 AM

RO membranes DO remove TDS. My point was that adding another membrane won't remove the CO2.

If you want to take the permeate (RO water) from one membrane and run it through another membrane, remember that the permeate is at very low pressure. So you'll need to collect the permeate from membrane 1, then re-pressurize it with a pump to provide feedwater to membrane No. 2.

At 3 ppm TDS from your first membrane, have you considered just using that water in your tank?

Russ

NHreefer · 04/10/2015, 06:56 AM

If the incoming water is high in phosphates won't that deplete the di resin much quicker?

diggler93 · 04/10/2015, 08:22 AM

Great question Buckeye. To be honest I don't know what the outcome would be.

Tarawa · 04/11/2015, 01:36 PM

what kind of pump is best to run degassed water thru DI phases?

Buckeye Hydro · 04/11/2015, 01:48 PM

I like gravity feed. If you want a pump - a fairly slow peristaltic pump, or a chocked down maxi jet even

Tarawa · 04/11/2015, 02:51 PM

would a Tom's Aqualifter work well? I have one just laying around atm

Buckeye Hydro · 04/11/2015, 02:55 PM

The flow (84 gpd) is ok, but I can't claim to know much about that pump

11/19/2013, 09:26 PM	#51
kc350twin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Severn, MD Posts: 1,579	Chilwil84 I noticed a few posts back that you said you used water before your water treatment system/Calcite. Can I ask why you don't use treated water through your RO/DI unit? __________________ 112g Cube 36x36x20= Custom 12x39wPower Module (Par Monster)= Neptune Apex=ATB 840v2=BM Doser= 2 MP-40's

11/19/2013, 09:27 PM	#52
kc350twin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Severn, MD Posts: 1,579	Wow this thread is old. __________________ 112g Cube 36x36x20= Custom 12x39wPower Module (Par Monster)= Neptune Apex=ATB 840v2=BM Doser= 2 MP-40's

11/20/2013, 08:21 AM	#56
kc350twin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Severn, MD Posts: 1,579	Degassing does make a dramatic difference. I held mine in a 32gal brute then a air stone for 24hrs then a maxi-jet to push it thru the DI. Nice and slow. The DI resin would barely change color at 50gal mark. I since have a water treatment system and when my neutralizer is relatively new I can make about 200gal of water per DI cartridge. @BFS Is there any reason that I should not be running the RO/DI after the water treatment system? It consists of a neutralizer(Calciteand Mag-oxide) and water softner with salt (Morton's) and a middle unit that removes the Radium in the well water but I can't remember of the top of my head the name of the unit. Thanks. __________________ 112g Cube 36x36x20= Custom 12x39wPower Module (Par Monster)= Neptune Apex=ATB 840v2=BM Doser= 2 MP-40's

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11/20/2013, 03:16 AM	#53
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	Assuming your water temperature is around 60 F, you have about 23 ppm CO2 - and as you're seeing, that will nuke your DI resin very quickly. Have to thought about degassing your water?

11/27/2013, 08:11 PM	#61
chilwil84 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: down the shore Posts: 780	i tapped off my line to an outdoor hosebib because it was close by(and with over 600 gallons of tanks at the time why use up my calcite). i have since found out that all i need to do is bubble it with air for 24 hrs and than pump it through my di and all things are grand. i have pumped well over 1200 gallons through my di and its only half exhausted. i am lucky though because my well water is very clean (it comes from under the pinebarrens in nj) so it comes out before my di at 6-9 tds

11/27/2013, 09:18 PM	#62
YoungREEFA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Indianapolis IN Posts: 895	Jeez my incoming tap is 600 !

11/27/2013, 09:23 PM	#63
chilwil84 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: down the shore Posts: 780	mine just eats through metal with a super low ph

11/28/2013, 09:32 AM	#65
chilwil84 Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: down the shore Posts: 780	yup calcite i am just happy i dont have to have a salt system to

04/09/2015, 05:35 AM	#66
diggler93 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 77	Hoping to revisit this thread. I too am on a well, and I am exhausting resin way too quickly. I have about 110ppm coming out of my tap. I recently upgraded my RO membrane to the 99% Spectrapure 90gpd unit. That is getting me 3ppm going into my DI Resin, yet the output after the resin rises past 0 ppm after only about 60 gallons of water. I would absolutely setup a degasser, however I just don't have the room for it. Are there any other options out there? Would I see any extended life if I purchased a premium resin from Spectrapure, or would it become exhausted just as quickly due to CO2? I'm sure this isn't possible or someone would have thought of it, but why can't we just add an additional RO membrane inline after the first? One would think that this would reduce the output from the membranes to near 0 levels without the need for resin? Obviously it isn't that simple, just wondering why. thanks in advance.

04/09/2015, 05:37 AM	#67
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	If CO2 is your issue, this dissolved gas is not removed by an RO membrane.

04/10/2015, 05:48 AM	#68
diggler93 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 77	Yes, I understand that the RO membrane wouldn't remove any TDS, but would it not bring the TDS down to a point where DI Resin wouldn't be needed? My RO membrane drops my TDS from 115 in, to about 3-4 out. If I put another inline would that not get rid of the remaining 3-4 TDS? Just curious as to why this wouldn't work is all.

04/10/2015, 06:28 AM	#69
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	RO membranes DO remove TDS. My point was that adding another membrane won't remove the CO2. If you want to take the permeate (RO water) from one membrane and run it through another membrane, remember that the permeate is at very low pressure. So you'll need to collect the permeate from membrane 1, then re-pressurize it with a pump to provide feedwater to membrane No. 2. At 3 ppm TDS from your first membrane, have you considered just using that water in your tank? Russ

04/10/2015, 06:56 AM	#70
NHreefer Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2002 Location: NH Posts: 275	If the incoming water is high in phosphates won't that deplete the di resin much quicker?

04/10/2015, 08:22 AM	#71
diggler93 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2013 Posts: 77	Great question Buckeye. To be honest I don't know what the outcome would be.

04/11/2015, 01:36 PM	#72
Tarawa Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 245	what kind of pump is best to run degassed water thru DI phases?

04/11/2015, 01:48 PM	#73
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	I like gravity feed. If you want a pump - a fairly slow peristaltic pump, or a chocked down maxi jet even

04/11/2015, 02:51 PM	#74
Tarawa Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2014 Posts: 245	would a Tom's Aqualifter work well? I have one just laying around atm

04/11/2015, 02:55 PM	#75
Buckeye Hydro .Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: Cincinnati, Ohio Posts: 4,857	The flow (84 gpd) is ok, but I can't claim to know much about that pump