Found electrical current going through my QT!

Dundermifflin · 04/23/2015, 10:06 PM

Felt small level of electrical current in my QT tonight. I have the following electronics in my 20g QT:

-Tetra 10-30 Whisper pump
-Aqueon Quietflow 30 pump
-Air stone
-Eheim heater
-MJ 1200 powerhead (for water changes-was not on)

Went in to feed the tank. Noticed the Aqueon pump was dry, but everything else working. When I felt the water I felt the current. The fish seemed fine and appear to be doing well. They ate, their color looks good and they are swimming around.

I unplugged each item individually to see if I could isolate the problem. When all was unplugged there was still a charge in the tank. About 10 minutes later with everything off there was no longer a charge. My wife said she noticed something in the kitchen said power failure. We must have had some minor outage. This would make sense as to why the Aqueon 30 pump was not running. That pump needs to be primed all the way to top each time it's powered on. I then unplugged the surges from the GFI's in the wall terminating power to everything. Do not have a GFI breaker-just outlets. I let everything sit unplugged for a few minutes then plugged everything in one by one. All was good with just the heater left to go. Plugged that in and got the electrical charge back in the tank. Unplugged it and a minute later tank is running fine without the heater.

Anyone ever experience this? Will the fish be okay? What should I look for with them? Heater is only two months old so going to call Eheim in the morning. Should the GFI outlet have tripped or was the charge too small?

Thanks.

OrQidz · 04/24/2015, 12:24 AM

glad it wasn't worse than that! I think with heater removed things will be ok, since they survived the experience. You're sure the outlets are GFCI outlets? You can test them with the test/reset buttons to make sure they are working. Or do you mean you have a GFCI thing that you plug into the outlet? That should have a test button as well. I'm not good explaining (ok, or understanding) electrical stuff but I think they should trip and stop the current in a situation like this. Hopefully some of the electrical minded people will chime in.

droog · 04/24/2015, 04:02 AM

Whats the best way to determine if there is a stray voltage in the tank?

smedlin · 04/24/2015, 06:47 AM

Over the past 13 years, I've had many things "go out".

Most things last several years, but eventually something seems to get to them.. salt? time? whatever...

heaters and return pumps.. I know they are going out because if I'm barefooted and I touch the water in the tank, I would get a nice shock.

It doesn't hurt the fish. You have to be grounded. (If I'm wearing shoes with rubber soles and don't touch the tank itself, I can touch the water without getting shocked.)

--------------------

For 12 years, I was also similar to OP. My tank is in my living room. The outlet is on the same line that most of the living room and the kitchen outlets are on, including the fridge.

Last year, I put in a new breaker and put in a new line.

I didn't run the new wire down the wall. The original line goes down the wall (from the attic) to the outlet, then back up the wall and heads over to where the next outlet is (there are several doorways and hallways, so the line can't just "go across" to next outlet).

Anyways, I simply ran a new line to where the old line went down into the wall, cut both "down and up" lines, attached new line into "down" line, spliced the old lines back together.. and thus isolated the tank.

(there is an outlet on other side of wall that shares the run, but 1 "other" outlet sure is better than half the living room and all of kitchen).

Anyways, was pretty easy to do. But only if you have access to the runs like I did.

.

smedlin · 04/24/2015, 06:51 AM

Hmp, after I posted the above, It dawned on me the OP didn't say the tank is on the same line as the kitchen. I misread what he had said about the kitchen failer... my mistake.

Dundermifflin · 04/24/2015, 11:48 AM

In the tank room I have a GFI outlet and it wasn't tripped. The light was green. I have the heaters plugged in to a surge protector that goes in to the GFI outlet. Everything else is plugged into a power rack that goes into the surge protector that goes to the GFI outlet. I'm not well versed in electrical, but I would think with the heater being an issue it would have tripped the GFI outlet. Not sure why it didn't.

Dundermifflin · 04/24/2015, 06:49 PM

Found my two other heaters are doing the same thing in the salt mixing drum. Purchased all three the end of January...odd. Called Eheim and emailed receipt. Sounds like they'll replace all with no problem.

Anyone else have this issue with Eheim heaters? I still don't understand why the GFI wasn't tripped.

OrQidz · 04/24/2015, 10:38 PM

3 heaters? Hmm. Maybe try a voltmeter and see how much current is in the tank. It's weird that the GFCI wouldn't trip. Something is odd for sure.

mmn · 04/25/2015, 06:17 AM

There has to be a current differential, and not much of one or for very long, between the hot and neutral legs of the GFCI for it to trip. If you felt a shock then that means there was current flowing from hot to somewhere other than neutral and the GFCI should have tripped.

My suspicion is either the GFCI is wired wrong or not working properly.

Dundermifflin · 04/25/2015, 11:26 AM

If the GFI is wired wrong would it work at all? I thought I read somewhere that there is always some level of voltage going through the tank and that something can be purchased to put in the tank to eliminate stray voltage. Is this true? If so, what is this device and where do you get it?

julie180 · 04/25/2015, 06:33 PM

You can purchase a grounding probe to put in your tank. Its not something that you want to rely on though.
Get an electrical tester at the hardware store, it plugs into your outlets and tells you if they are wired properly.

mmn · 04/26/2015, 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dundermifflin

If the GFI is wired wrong would it work at all? I thought I read somewhere that there is always some level of voltage going through the tank and that something can be purchased to put in the tank to eliminate stray voltage. Is this true? If so, what is this device and where do you get it?

There's a wealth of information and discussion of the pros and cons of grounding probes in RC. I think you should read some of it before you throw a grounding probe in there.

04/23/2015, 10:06 PM	#1
Dundermifflin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 272	Found electrical current going through my QT! Felt small level of electrical current in my QT tonight. I have the following electronics in my 20g QT: -Tetra 10-30 Whisper pump -Aqueon Quietflow 30 pump -Air stone -Eheim heater -MJ 1200 powerhead (for water changes-was not on) Went in to feed the tank. Noticed the Aqueon pump was dry, but everything else working. When I felt the water I felt the current. The fish seemed fine and appear to be doing well. They ate, their color looks good and they are swimming around. I unplugged each item individually to see if I could isolate the problem. When all was unplugged there was still a charge in the tank. About 10 minutes later with everything off there was no longer a charge. My wife said she noticed something in the kitchen said power failure. We must have had some minor outage. This would make sense as to why the Aqueon 30 pump was not running. That pump needs to be primed all the way to top each time it's powered on. I then unplugged the surges from the GFI's in the wall terminating power to everything. Do not have a GFI breaker-just outlets. I let everything sit unplugged for a few minutes then plugged everything in one by one. All was good with just the heater left to go. Plugged that in and got the electrical charge back in the tank. Unplugged it and a minute later tank is running fine without the heater. Anyone ever experience this? Will the fish be okay? What should I look for with them? Heater is only two months old so going to call Eheim in the morning. Should the GFI outlet have tripped or was the charge too small? Thanks.

04/24/2015, 06:47 AM	#4
smedlin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: South of Houston, Texas Posts: 339	Over the past 13 years, I've had many things "go out". Most things last several years, but eventually something seems to get to them.. salt? time? whatever... heaters and return pumps.. I know they are going out because if I'm barefooted and I touch the water in the tank, I would get a nice shock. It doesn't hurt the fish. You have to be grounded. (If I'm wearing shoes with rubber soles and don't touch the tank itself, I can touch the water without getting shocked.) -------------------- For 12 years, I was also similar to OP. My tank is in my living room. The outlet is on the same line that most of the living room and the kitchen outlets are on, including the fridge. Last year, I put in a new breaker and put in a new line. I didn't run the new wire down the wall. The original line goes down the wall (from the attic) to the outlet, then back up the wall and heads over to where the next outlet is (there are several doorways and hallways, so the line can't just "go across" to next outlet). Anyways, I simply ran a new line to where the old line went down into the wall, cut both "down and up" lines, attached new line into "down" line, spliced the old lines back together.. and thus isolated the tank. (there is an outlet on other side of wall that shares the run, but 1 "other" outlet sure is better than half the living room and all of kitchen). Anyways, was pretty easy to do. But only if you have access to the runs like I did. . __________________ 150G - 14 years old. In process of modernizing it. Read about my sad attempt here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2490690

04/24/2015, 06:51 AM	#5
smedlin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: South of Houston, Texas Posts: 339	Hmp, after I posted the above, It dawned on me the OP didn't say the tank is on the same line as the kitchen. I misread what he had said about the kitchen failer... my mistake. __________________ 150G - 14 years old. In process of modernizing it. Read about my sad attempt here http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2490690

04/25/2015, 06:17 AM	#9
mmn Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2013 Location: Fort Lauderdale Posts: 340	There has to be a current differential, and not much of one or for very long, between the hot and neutral legs of the GFCI for it to trip. If you felt a shock then that means there was current flowing from hot to somewhere other than neutral and the GFCI should have tripped. My suspicion is either the GFCI is wired wrong or not working properly. __________________ Regards Michael 125g DT, Jebao DC9000, BA drain, 55g sump, Mixing: 2x32g Brutes, Panworld 30PX, 20l QT, RLSS R6I skimmer, 3 x Kessil A360WE, Neptune Apex. Current Tank Info: 2 clowns, 2 blue-green chromis, 2 Duncans and 2 GSPs

04/24/2015, 12:24 AM	#2
OrQidz Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 825	glad it wasn't worse than that! I think with heater removed things will be ok, since they survived the experience. You're sure the outlets are GFCI outlets? You can test them with the test/reset buttons to make sure they are working. Or do you mean you have a GFCI thing that you plug into the outlet? That should have a test button as well. I'm not good explaining (ok, or understanding) electrical stuff but I think they should trip and stop the current in a situation like this. Hopefully some of the electrical minded people will chime in.

04/24/2015, 04:02 AM	#3
droog Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2013 Posts: 736	Whats the best way to determine if there is a stray voltage in the tank?

04/24/2015, 11:48 AM	#6
Dundermifflin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 272	In the tank room I have a GFI outlet and it wasn't tripped. The light was green. I have the heaters plugged in to a surge protector that goes in to the GFI outlet. Everything else is plugged into a power rack that goes into the surge protector that goes to the GFI outlet. I'm not well versed in electrical, but I would think with the heater being an issue it would have tripped the GFI outlet. Not sure why it didn't.

04/24/2015, 06:49 PM	#7
Dundermifflin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 272	Found my two other heaters are doing the same thing in the salt mixing drum. Purchased all three the end of January...odd. Called Eheim and emailed receipt. Sounds like they'll replace all with no problem. Anyone else have this issue with Eheim heaters? I still don't understand why the GFI wasn't tripped.

04/24/2015, 10:38 PM	#8
OrQidz Registered Member Join Date: May 2006 Location: Pacific Northwest Posts: 825	3 heaters? Hmm. Maybe try a voltmeter and see how much current is in the tank. It's weird that the GFCI wouldn't trip. Something is odd for sure.

04/25/2015, 11:26 AM	#10
Dundermifflin Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 272	If the GFI is wired wrong would it work at all? I thought I read somewhere that there is always some level of voltage going through the tank and that something can be purchased to put in the tank to eliminate stray voltage. Is this true? If so, what is this device and where do you get it?

04/25/2015, 06:33 PM	#11
julie180 Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Raymore, MO Posts: 2,556	You can purchase a grounding probe to put in your tank. Its not something that you want to rely on though. Get an electrical tester at the hardware store, it plugs into your outlets and tells you if they are wired properly.