Cycling Question (Fishless)

Aqualoon · 04/29/2015, 11:10 AM

Short Background: Not new to the fishless cycle but only done it on the freshwater side.

So, started cycling a little over a week ago (4/20). Monday (4/27) I had high nitrates so mixed up some fresh saltwater yesterday to do a water change today. I wanted to do a water test before and after the water change, so just did the before the water change test and my nitrates are low, much much lower (went from 160ish ppm to 5-10 ppm).

1. Where did my nitrates go?
2. Should I still do a water change?
3. Should I be happy or concerned about this? I was extremely happy to finally seeing Nitrates on Monday as it showed that the tank was in fact, cycling.

Kyle461 · 04/29/2015, 11:16 AM

Your first test may have read wrong or been a fluke. Test again to see where all params are. If you are still showing ammonia and nitrites, I would let it be and don't do any more water changes until they both drop to zero. Your nitrates will climb naturally due to this but you don't have to worry about until the end of the cycle.

Aqualoon · 04/29/2015, 11:23 AM

Just retested the Nitrates and they are indeed 5-10 ppm now.

Have been doing daily tested (minus the weekend) - also the nitrite tops out at 5 so it's been maxed for awhile.

4/20/2015 Dosed full bottle of Bio Spira + Ammonia
4/21/2015 NH3 = 0, NH2 = 0, NO3 = 0
4/22/2015 NH3 = 2, NH2 = 0, NO3 = 0
4/23/2015 NH3 = 1, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 0
4/24/2015 NH3 = 4, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 0
4/27/2015 NH3 = 0.5, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 80
4/28/2015 NH3 = 0.25, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 160
4/29/2015 NH3 = 0.25, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 5-10

Did some googling and found a thread on another forum mentioning to a guy that if it were a salt tank the sand bed may have something to do with it? Does that sound right?

Kyle461 · 04/29/2015, 11:25 AM

I honestly wouldn't know about the sand bed theory.

Main thing is your tank is still cycling and you shouldn't worry about the nitrates until the end. Once your ammonia and nitrites hit zero, test the system by adding a source of ammonia. If both levels drop to zero within 24 hours you are cycled. Then you can start the water changes to lower your nitrates if needed.

CStrickland · 04/29/2015, 11:34 AM

I don't think the nitrate test is super reliable when there is still nitrite around, but it might depend on the brand. Also, the nitrate tests that use drops are a pita with the shaking and everything so it's pretty easy to mess up. Like Kyle said, just let it do its thing.

I changed my water regularly during the cycle, a lot of people don't. I did it to get practice with my new system and be comfortable with my vacuum hose and stuff; also my rocks were cooking out a but of nasty detritus so I wanted that out of the tank. My tank cycled really fast so I didn't see a downside except for the cost of the salt.

The sand bed has something to do with it in the sense that sand is where a lot of the bacteria live. So because cycling the tank is growing bacteria, the sand is important.

Aqualoon · 04/29/2015, 11:40 AM

I won't give much thought to the Nitrates then with the Nitrites still being so high then. Just thought it was rather interesting to see such a swing, not something I was expecting at all.

disc1 · 04/29/2015, 11:50 AM

A nitrate kit works by first converting a portion of the nitrate into nitrite so it can be detected. A little bit of nitrite can fool a nitrate test and show up as a large amount of nitrate.

Aqualoon · 04/29/2015, 11:58 AM

Oh, for reference using an API Saltwater Master Test Kit.

homer1475 · 04/29/2015, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aqualoon

Oh, for reference using an API Saltwater Master Test Kit.

Right there is your issue!!

Coming from a FW background myself, I have always used the API kits. Going into the SW hobby I started out using them also, but quickly found out they are not reliable for SW(both master kits are the same except for the color charts). I now use combination of salifert and red sea kits. With the API kit I was always showing extremely high nitrates, switched to the red sea kit(used a friends salifert also just to make 100% sure), and my nitrates were really only 4ppm.

bruindave · 04/29/2015, 03:07 PM

are API master kits really that bad? I'm using one right now for my tank cycling...

jminick2 · 04/29/2015, 04:50 PM

API test kit is not bad for cycling. LIsten to Strickland and Disc they are smart people. Don't worry about your nitrates until ammonia and nitrites are 0, and don't do anymore water changes until then either.

Dkuhlmann · 04/29/2015, 06:31 PM

Yes, API kits really are that bad for SW testing

jminick2 · 04/29/2015, 08:48 PM

API test kits have always worked just fine for cycling for me. I don't use them for anything beyond that.

04/29/2015, 11:10 AM	#1
Aqualoon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 123	Cycling Question (Fishless) Short Background: Not new to the fishless cycle but only done it on the freshwater side. So, started cycling a little over a week ago (4/20). Monday (4/27) I had high nitrates so mixed up some fresh saltwater yesterday to do a water change today. I wanted to do a water test before and after the water change, so just did the before the water change test and my nitrates are low, much much lower (went from 160ish ppm to 5-10 ppm). 1. Where did my nitrates go? 2. Should I still do a water change? 3. Should I be happy or concerned about this? I was extremely happy to finally seeing Nitrates on Monday as it showed that the tank was in fact, cycling.

04/29/2015, 11:16 AM	#2
Kyle461 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 438	Your first test may have read wrong or been a fluke. Test again to see where all params are. If you are still showing ammonia and nitrites, I would let it be and don't do any more water changes until they both drop to zero. Your nitrates will climb naturally due to this but you don't have to worry about until the end of the cycle. __________________ Nadie me paga en chicles!! Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2485917 Current Tank Info: 40 gallon breeder (2/17/15); 20L 3-chamber sump; Tunze Nano ATO; Hydor 320gph return and Circulation 850 gph; Coralife Super Skimmer 125 G; Marineland 24"-36" Reef LED

04/29/2015, 11:25 AM	#4
Kyle461 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Corpus Christi, TX Posts: 438	I honestly wouldn't know about the sand bed theory. Main thing is your tank is still cycling and you shouldn't worry about the nitrates until the end. Once your ammonia and nitrites hit zero, test the system by adding a source of ammonia. If both levels drop to zero within 24 hours you are cycled. Then you can start the water changes to lower your nitrates if needed. __________________ Nadie me paga en chicles!! Build Thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2485917 Current Tank Info: 40 gallon breeder (2/17/15); 20L 3-chamber sump; Tunze Nano ATO; Hydor 320gph return and Circulation 850 gph; Coralife Super Skimmer 125 G; Marineland 24"-36" Reef LED

04/29/2015, 11:50 AM	#7
disc1 -RT * ln(k) Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Little Rock Posts: 9,705	A nitrate kit works by first converting a portion of the nitrate into nitrite so it can be detected. A little bit of nitrite can fool a nitrate test and show up as a large amount of nitrate. __________________ David Current Tank: Undergoing reconstruction...

04/29/2015, 06:31 PM	#12
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	Yes, API kits really are that bad for SW testing __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

04/29/2015, 11:23 AM	#3
Aqualoon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 123	Just retested the Nitrates and they are indeed 5-10 ppm now. Have been doing daily tested (minus the weekend) - also the nitrite tops out at 5 so it's been maxed for awhile. 4/20/2015 Dosed full bottle of Bio Spira + Ammonia 4/21/2015 NH3 = 0, NH2 = 0, NO3 = 0 4/22/2015 NH3 = 2, NH2 = 0, NO3 = 0 4/23/2015 NH3 = 1, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 0 4/24/2015 NH3 = 4, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 0 4/27/2015 NH3 = 0.5, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 80 4/28/2015 NH3 = 0.25, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 160 4/29/2015 NH3 = 0.25, NH2 = 5, NO3 = 5-10 Did some googling and found a thread on another forum mentioning to a guy that if it were a salt tank the sand bed may have something to do with it? Does that sound right?

04/29/2015, 11:34 AM	#5
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	I don't think the nitrate test is super reliable when there is still nitrite around, but it might depend on the brand. Also, the nitrate tests that use drops are a pita with the shaking and everything so it's pretty easy to mess up. Like Kyle said, just let it do its thing. I changed my water regularly during the cycle, a lot of people don't. I did it to get practice with my new system and be comfortable with my vacuum hose and stuff; also my rocks were cooking out a but of nasty detritus so I wanted that out of the tank. My tank cycled really fast so I didn't see a downside except for the cost of the salt. The sand bed has something to do with it in the sense that sand is where a lot of the bacteria live. So because cycling the tank is growing bacteria, the sand is important.

04/29/2015, 11:40 AM	#6
Aqualoon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 123	I won't give much thought to the Nitrates then with the Nitrites still being so high then. Just thought it was rather interesting to see such a swing, not something I was expecting at all.

04/29/2015, 11:58 AM	#8
Aqualoon Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Minnesota Posts: 123	Oh, for reference using an API Saltwater Master Test Kit.

04/29/2015, 03:07 PM	#10
bruindave Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 242	are API master kits really that bad? I'm using one right now for my tank cycling...

04/29/2015, 04:50 PM	#11
jminick2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,226	API test kit is not bad for cycling. LIsten to Strickland and Disc they are smart people. Don't worry about your nitrates until ammonia and nitrites are 0, and don't do anymore water changes until then either.

04/29/2015, 08:48 PM	#13
jminick2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,226	API test kits have always worked just fine for cycling for me. I don't use them for anything beyond that. __________________ “Out of every one hundred men, ten shouldn't even be there, eighty are just targets, nine are the real fighters. Ah, but the one, one is a warrior, and he will bring the others back.” Current Tank Info: 300g sps tank