Ammonia issues in my QT

coolxborg · 07/04/2015, 03:15 PM

Hi -

A royal gramma, PJ cardinal, and citron goby have been in my QT for four weeks now and have been treated with Prazipro. So far no signs of Ich.

However, the last few days, ive had a reading in Ammonia in the QT (~0.05 according to badge and ~0.25 according to APT test kit). Three days ago, I changed 25% of the water and tested again. Same results. Two days ago, I changed another 25%-30% of the water. Same results again. Yesterday, changed water 2x (about 25% each time) and finally added some prime. Still same results. I changed water again this morning, but still same results.

At first i thought this could be false readings so tested my DT with my API test kit and had 0 (badge also has 0). I had an extra badge laying around and put that in QT which showed roughly the same color as the other badge. This leads me to believe its not my test kits.

What could be causing this?

Also, what could be my options?
I figure:
1. Keep doing water changes and hopefully it disappears
2. Transfer them to DT (DT has been running for 2 months and have snails in them now, no fish) and take my chances.

coolxborg · 07/04/2015, 03:18 PM

Title is incorrect - Ammonia issues in my QT.

[FIXED---sk8r]

homer1475 · 07/04/2015, 03:24 PM

I use seachem stability on my QT, along with prime(If needed). Never had an ammonia issue.

How big is your QT, and whats on it for filtration?

coolxborg · 07/04/2015, 03:47 PM

10 gallon with hob filter with ceramic rings and carbon right now.

Sk8r · 07/04/2015, 03:59 PM

If you started with a clean filter, your filter itself may be cycling.

homer1475 · 07/04/2015, 04:01 PM

Basically the same setup as I have. Stability will even out your parameters. I would still use prime to lock up the ammonia until the stability takes effect. Its super cheap to, like 9$ for a huge bottle at petsmart.

homer1475 · 07/04/2015, 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

If you started with a clean filter, your filter itself may be cycling.

Exactly what I was getting at. Stability will populate those ceramic rings in a hurry.

Marchillo · 07/04/2015, 04:02 PM

As far as I'm aware you can't run carbon with medicine. Maybe I'm wrong.

Once you add prime your test kits may not show proper readings. Most test kits test total ammonia not just free ammonia (the toxic stuff). Pick up the SeaChem test that tests both free and total ammonia. Prime will bind the toxic ammonia into something safe for the fish although it still shows up in test results in most test kits.

Others will hopefully chime in.

I've had my 2 pj cardinals in a 20g tank going on 35 days. My ammonia badge never seems to be bright yellow so stress has been high for me. When I get nervous I do a 35% wc and or add prime. Fish seem happy and healthy.

homer1475 · 07/04/2015, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

As far as I'm aware you can't run carbon with medicine. Maybe I'm wrong.

No carbon with prazipro, think it says so on the bottle. Going to grab mine to look.

EDIT:
Yup, just looked. No carbon, skimmer, or UV. Failure to do so will render product ineffective.

coolxborg · 07/04/2015, 04:23 PM

I've had the same ceramic rings since I started. Also, I only ran carbon after Prazipro.

So it looks I need to add stability and buy another test kit to confirm.

Marchillo · 07/04/2015, 04:53 PM

For me the colors seemed to play tricks on my eyes after a while. Is that yellow or a hint of lime green? If I put it under light A at angle A it looks like X. If I put it under light A at angle B it looks like Y.

At some points in the process I've done an ammonia test on both my display and QT (don't intermix equipment) to do a side by side comparison. That helped to eliminate some of my fears as well.

You also have 3 fish in a 10g tank. I'm guessing the ammonia could build up pretty quick. Don't be afraid of wc's. They've been my friend!

gone fishin · 07/04/2015, 05:14 PM

Good advice given. We can never have to much water on hand or prime during QT.

coolxborg · 07/04/2015, 05:16 PM

Yea, agreed. Not afraid of water changes, it just seems it wasn't getting ammonia under control.

gone fishin · 07/04/2015, 05:20 PM

The first couple QT can be stressful until we get into a routine. I know if I stare at the ammonia badges long enough it seems to change colors to taunt me.

Marchillo · 07/04/2015, 08:59 PM

FYI here has been my schedule. I think I may even add a little prime tonight. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. It's my first time doing this process so I've been keeping notes in hopes I can mimic good results. Next time I think I'd start TTM on day one since it would save me a transfer. FYI there are 2 PJs in there. You can see how freaked out I was to start with wc's. Again not a bad thing imo. I'm doing one tomorrow with display water and may move them to DT this week. Probably a week or so less than recommended.

QT - PJ Cardinals
Sun May 31 - fish in
Wed 30% wc
Thu prime
Fri 30% wc
Sat 30% wc
Sun Jun 7 30% wc
Mon prime
Wed 30% wc w/prime
Sun June 14- new tank
Tue - added prime
Wed - new tank T1 (day 3)
Thu - added prime
Sat - new tank T2 (day 6)
Sun June 21
Mon - added prime
Tue- new tank T3 (day 9)
Thu - added prime
Fri - new tank T4 (day 12)
Sat - added prime
Sun - June 28
Tue - added prime (1/2 dose)
Tue - 35% wc
Wed - added prime
Fri - 35% wc w/prime

coolxborg · 07/04/2015, 09:33 PM

Thanks Marchillo. I just got home and checked again and still the same results. Ill change water again tomorrow, then go to LFS to pick up stability and other test kits.

tkeracer619 · 07/05/2015, 01:06 AM

Test the water change water.

Marchillo · 07/05/2015, 06:52 AM

So here is an example of my side by side comparison

My DT has zero ammonia on multiple tests. I look at the QT tank and I see that that ammonia badge doesn't quite look yellow. I talk myself into thinking there is ammonia. So I do a side by side test from DT to QT tank. I know API isn't the best test but its the quickest one for this example. If you look at this photo you can talk yourself into saying the ammonia test looks slightly green. It does in this light. It looks more yellowish in better lighting. If the lighting is too bright I get thrown off even more.

The point is that doing the side by side I can see everything is exactly the same except for Nitrates in my DT which I expect. Nitrates are between 2-5PPM with my other tests. Tough to read the API test colors.

Just make sure if you do this not to mix equipment.

I plan on doing my DT water change today and using that water for my QT to get some Nitrates in there and then move them to DT on Tuesday

Good Luck.

julie180 · 07/05/2015, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Marchillo

As far as I'm aware you can't run carbon with medicine. Maybe I'm wrong.

Once you add prime your test kits may not show proper readings. Most test kits test total ammonia not just free ammonia (the toxic stuff). Pick up the SeaChem test that tests both free and total ammonia. Prime will bind the toxic ammonia into something safe for the fish although it still shows up in test results in most test kits.

Get the seachem test kit for accurate reading. Api is inaccurate when using Prime

ericarenee · 07/05/2015, 08:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julie180

Get the seachem test kit for accurate reading. Api is inaccurate when using Prime

This.

I Thought all the test kits will still detect the ammonia in the water even thou the prime has it locked up . I know Prime does not really remove the ammonia out of the water it just binds it with some other element to prevent it from harming the inhabitants .. That is why i think consistency and A LOG Book is needed as your running on faith and experience by watching how the fish act to determine the levels..
not mentioned by others Be sure you have good surface agitation..

coolxborg · 07/05/2015, 11:54 AM

Just did another 25-30% water change. API test kit is now showing 0 but Badge still has a slightly greenish/yellowish color.

Anyway, grabbing Seachem test kit today.

Marchillo · 07/05/2015, 12:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by coolxborg

Just did another 25-30% water change. API test kit is now showing 0 but Badge still has a slightly greenish/yellowish color.

Anyway, grabbing Seachem test kit today.

I think you are in real good shape. I'm assuming my badge is the same exact color. It really throws me off. I bet your SeaChem test pops up zero.

07/04/2015, 03:15 PM	#1
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	Ammonia issues in my QT Hi - A royal gramma, PJ cardinal, and citron goby have been in my QT for four weeks now and have been treated with Prazipro. So far no signs of Ich. However, the last few days, ive had a reading in Ammonia in the QT (~0.05 according to badge and ~0.25 according to APT test kit). Three days ago, I changed 25% of the water and tested again. Same results. Two days ago, I changed another 25%-30% of the water. Same results again. Yesterday, changed water 2x (about 25% each time) and finally added some prime. Still same results. I changed water again this morning, but still same results. At first i thought this could be false readings so tested my DT with my API test kit and had 0 (badge also has 0). I had an extra badge laying around and put that in QT which showed roughly the same color as the other badge. This leads me to believe its not my test kits. What could be causing this? Also, what could be my options? I figure: 1. Keep doing water changes and hopefully it disappears 2. Transfer them to DT (DT has been running for 2 months and have snails in them now, no fish) and take my chances. Last edited by Sk8r; 07/04/2015 at 03:58 PM.

07/04/2015, 03:18 PM	#2
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	Title is incorrect - Ammonia issues in my QT. [FIXED---sk8r] Last edited by Sk8r; 07/04/2015 at 03:58 PM.

07/04/2015, 03:24 PM	#3
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	I use seachem stability on my QT, along with prime(If needed). Never had an ammonia issue. How big is your QT, and whats on it for filtration? __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

07/04/2015, 03:59 PM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	If you started with a clean filter, your filter itself may be cycling. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/04/2015, 04:01 PM	#6
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Basically the same setup as I have. Stability will even out your parameters. I would still use prime to lock up the ammonia until the stability takes effect. Its super cheap to, like 9$ for a huge bottle at petsmart. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

07/04/2015, 03:47 PM	#4
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	10 gallon with hob filter with ceramic rings and carbon right now.

07/04/2015, 04:02 PM	#8
Marchillo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,178	As far as I'm aware you can't run carbon with medicine. Maybe I'm wrong. Once you add prime your test kits may not show proper readings. Most test kits test total ammonia not just free ammonia (the toxic stuff). Pick up the SeaChem test that tests both free and total ammonia. Prime will bind the toxic ammonia into something safe for the fish although it still shows up in test results in most test kits. Others will hopefully chime in. I've had my 2 pj cardinals in a 20g tank going on 35 days. My ammonia badge never seems to be bright yellow so stress has been high for me. When I get nervous I do a 35% wc and or add prime. Fish seem happy and healthy.

07/04/2015, 04:23 PM	#10
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	I've had the same ceramic rings since I started. Also, I only ran carbon after Prazipro. So it looks I need to add stability and buy another test kit to confirm.

07/04/2015, 04:53 PM	#11
Marchillo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,178	For me the colors seemed to play tricks on my eyes after a while. Is that yellow or a hint of lime green? If I put it under light A at angle A it looks like X. If I put it under light A at angle B it looks like Y. At some points in the process I've done an ammonia test on both my display and QT (don't intermix equipment) to do a side by side comparison. That helped to eliminate some of my fears as well. You also have 3 fish in a 10g tank. I'm guessing the ammonia could build up pretty quick. Don't be afraid of wc's. They've been my friend!

07/04/2015, 05:14 PM	#12
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	Good advice given. We can never have to much water on hand or prime during QT. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

07/04/2015, 05:16 PM	#13
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	Yea, agreed. Not afraid of water changes, it just seems it wasn't getting ammonia under control.

07/04/2015, 05:20 PM	#14
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	The first couple QT can be stressful until we get into a routine. I know if I stare at the ammonia badges long enough it seems to change colors to taunt me. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

07/04/2015, 08:59 PM	#15
Marchillo Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Posts: 1,178	FYI here has been my schedule. I think I may even add a little prime tonight. I'm not saying this is the right way to do it. It's my first time doing this process so I've been keeping notes in hopes I can mimic good results. Next time I think I'd start TTM on day one since it would save me a transfer. FYI there are 2 PJs in there. You can see how freaked out I was to start with wc's. Again not a bad thing imo. I'm doing one tomorrow with display water and may move them to DT this week. Probably a week or so less than recommended. QT - PJ Cardinals Sun May 31 - fish in Wed 30% wc Thu prime Fri 30% wc Sat 30% wc Sun Jun 7 30% wc Mon prime Wed 30% wc w/prime Sun June 14- new tank Tue - added prime Wed - new tank T1 (day 3) Thu - added prime Sat - new tank T2 (day 6) Sun June 21 Mon - added prime Tue- new tank T3 (day 9) Thu - added prime Fri - new tank T4 (day 12) Sat - added prime Sun - June 28 Tue - added prime (1/2 dose) Tue - 35% wc Wed - added prime Fri - 35% wc w/prime

07/04/2015, 09:33 PM	#16
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	Thanks Marchillo. I just got home and checked again and still the same results. Ill change water again tomorrow, then go to LFS to pick up stability and other test kits.

07/05/2015, 01:06 AM	#17
tkeracer619 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: Westminster, CO Posts: 17,289	Test the water change water. __________________ Hobby Experience: 9200ish gallons, 26 skimmers, and a handful of Kent Scrapers. Current Tank: Vortech Powered 600G SPS Tank w/ 100gal frag tank & 100g Sump. RK2-RK10 Skimmer. ReefAngel. Radium 20k.

07/05/2015, 11:54 AM	#21
coolxborg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Posts: 190	Just did another 25-30% water change. API test kit is now showing 0 but Badge still has a slightly greenish/yellowish color. Anyway, grabbing Seachem test kit today.