Help-Anything new dies

[Reefer PT]

I have had my 93g cube set up for 15 months now and have had quite a time with it. Initially all the soft corals, inverts and fish I added did great. I have been great on maintenance doing 10g water changes weekly, keeping all equipment clean, testing weekly and also I am automated on apex so dosing 2 part and NOPoX (5ml/day) is spread through the day/night. Salinity and PH very stable, actually all values haven't budged in a few months.
Nitrate = 1
PH = 8.0-8.2 according to apex graph
Salinity 35
PO4 = .026
MG =1250
CA=400
Dkh =8.1
I=.06
temp=78-80
Make up water is 6 stage RO/DI with additional post DI carbon block(use for drinking water as well) with 0 tds. Not running carbon or GFO anymore although I did for the first 11 months.
The problem is that any new fish, corals or inverts i put in the tank will die within a few days. When the fish die they appear healthy happy and eating but then just disappear. But all original corals (toadstool, GSP, Shrooms, Sinulara, Alveopora, Blastomosa) Inverts (cerinth snails, hermit crabs, nassarus snails and skunk shrimp) and Fish (hippo tang, 3 chromis, dragon goby, manderine, flame angle and 2 CB osc clowns) are living and slowly growing. Is it possible that there is a toxin/poison in the tank that the original livestock has a tolerance to? any thoughts? I have ran poly filter pads which turn brown. I did have a SS hose clamp that was corroded just above the water line and dripping rust into the tank. I did remove it a few weeks ago but just tried to add more trocus snail which all died in a few days. I also upgraded to a skimz PS 3 weeks ago which is pulling out a lot more organics. I have not noticed any aggression from the fish and my volt meter shows no stray voltage. Lighting is compliments of a Radion G2 and water movement is from a MP40. I have ruled out my make up water and replacement sw as I have a second 20 gallon tank that is keeping 20+ snails, LPS,SPS and a rainbow BTA nem just fine. About ready to do a complete re-start.
Dave

[dkeller_nc]

I can't tell you that I know what's going on - even after reading thousands and thousands of posts on RC, I've not seen a situation where all current inhabitants are doing well but all new additions die.

The only thing I could conjecture would be a drastically "off" salinity in your tank, or (more probable) that the source of your new inhabitants isn't selling you healthy animals (or has drastically different salinity from your tank that doesn't get noticed).

[Reefer PT]

I use a calibrated refractometer at 35 or 1.026 and I use 3 different shops. Drip acclimate for 1 hour. I am at such a loss myself. Cant understand why one tank is doing great and another not. One thing I forgot to mention is that I have been fighting cyno the last 8 months but no other forms of algae except coraline

[Reefer PT]

One more hypothesis of mine is that the 93 is at my office which is a medical office and I wash my hands with antimicrobial soap a million times a day so I'm wondering could it be residual soap even though I try to rinse well? also the tank I have success with I am not carbon dosing as well.

[twon8]

Originally Posted by Reefer PT

One more hypothesis of mine is that the 93 is at my office which is a medical office and I wash my hands with antimicrobial soap a million times a day so I'm wondering could it be residual soap even though I try to rinse well? also the tank I have success with I am not carbon dosing as well.

I would think that would affect the whole tank and its bacterial population and not just affect new additions. Chemical warfare is my guess for the corals with the softies you have. As to fish, maybe there is ich in the tank and new additions succumb.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by Reefer PT

One more hypothesis of mine is that the 93 is at my office which is a medical office and I wash my hands with antimicrobial soap a million times a day so I'm wondering could it be residual soap even though I try to rinse well? also the tank I have success with I am not carbon dosing as well.

One thing to note is that benzalkonium bromide (the active ingredient in Lysol) is incredibly toxic to marine life. It doesn't explain why the current organisms would be doing well and new additions wouldn't, but I thought I'd mention it so that compounds containing the chemical aren't used around the tank - the skimmer could easily pull an aerosol in, and nuke the tank.

[etepperman]

I had the same issue. I didn't know it but my LFS started to get fish from a new source. once I changes LFS, all was good again.

I am not saying that is your problem, your LFS might be great, but you might want to try a new place out and see if it helps.

-E

[Reefer PT]

We use a soap containing triclosan and surfaces are wiped with mild bleach solution. There is a can of fabreeze in the bathroom which is 15 feet away but like you said doesn't explain why only new inhabitants die. I'm also thinking it could be bacterial. I am feeding the bacteria with the NOPOX and it could be a strain that the original animals were slowly introduced to as I was ramping up the NOPOX (started about 2 months after tank was stocked) but any new animal will be overcome. Kind of like those of us that work with the public have a higher immunity but less exposed people get sick more often. What does everone think of taking Carbon dosing off line for a while?

[mr.maroonsalty]

I have been in a situation is similar, and as said, check your salinity. I calibrate my refractometer at every use (twice) with a standard kept with a tight cover. Calibration solution is cheep and if used from an eye dropper type top last for maybe a 1000 calibrations. As I write this I need to ask if you are using a saltwater refractometer? One used for urine is not calibrated the same.

[Reefer PT]

refractometer from BRS. checked at every use but have had same bottle of calibration fluid for at least 6 months. Tried to double check with an old swing hydrometer and that was an exercise in futility as I got a different reading every time, range was 1.022 -1.030. I had forgot how bad those things were.

[biomek]

Originally Posted by Reefer PT

Drip acclimate for 1 hour.

an hour drip is rather long. I've always followed Snorvich's advice and as long as the shipping/LFS salinity matches my QT, i simply float the bag for 15 mins and transfer them and haven't had any issues. possible suspect other than the chemicals that others have mentioned.

[mr.maroonsalty]

Would not be a bad idea to double check your calibration against another. Leaving the cap loose on the bottle (or off!) will cause the standard to rise. Not so much with the little nipple top, but drastically with an open top. Something is off enough to cause transplant shock. I seriously doubt it's alleopathic, or the soap, air fresheners.... It simply most fits the bill of the animals in the tank having been slowly acclimated to a parameter that shocks new creatures; hypo to hyper salinity is one that I am familiar with, but I imagine it could be something else too.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by biomek

an hour drip is rather long. I've always followed Snorvich's advice and as long as the shipping/LFS salinity matches my QT, i simply float the bag for 15 mins and transfer them and haven't had any issues. possible suspect other than the chemicals that others have mentioned.

I missed this; a 1 hour drip acclimation would be fine for both fish, corals and inverts if you include an airstone and some sort of heat source in the bucket. This is also assuming that your fish have only been in the bag for an hour or so from the LFS. If you're talking shipped fish, the advice is to match the salinity of your QT to the salinity in the bag, equilibrate the temperature by floating the bag in the tank, and remove the fish to the QT including as little bag water as possible.

[Reefer PT]

guess I should clarify. bags from LFS are floating and I have a hang on tank drip system that has a 2 cup container that is held above the bag. I refill several times and remove water from the bag with a turkey baster. After 45-60 min I remove the coral, dip it and place in the DT. Inverts and Fish don't get dipped. I know I will get yelled at for no QT but the LFS I get my fish from QT for 6 weeks and I have had him order me what I wanted so the fish never got to other tanks. I have seen the fish when they first go into QT and waited. I felt additional QT was not needed
dave

[400M1963]

As much as I want to blame your hermit crabs (those vagabonds harass snails fierce and I've always been suspicious of their treatment of other tankmates) I would suspect the LFS' sourcing together with no quarantine. Sounds like a hospital tank would do you well.

[Mishri]

cyanide poisoning? methylene blue dip.. I'm also one of the believers in fast acclimation. If the salinity in the water you are getting from the store is very low you could also be shocking the fish with your 1.026 salinity.

Even if you don't do a full QT on your fish if you can get a 20L+, match the salinity of the water from LFS in there and slowly raise it... I'll put it this way, going from 1.020 to 1.026 is recommended to be done over days.

If salinity is close (1.025) then You really should just ditch the 1hr acclimation, match ph/temp and dump them in... un needed stress...

Oh.. I knew someone who couldn't figure out why his new fish kept dieing, he was floating them with the lights on his tank on.. he was cooking his fish in the bag. - Maybe take someone with a lot of experience with you on your next fish acclimation to see if you do anything... not right...

I also never bothered acclimating crabs or snails.. those things are tough... not sure if it's any harder on them than jumping in cold water for us, but I wouldn't imagine so.. a bit shocking to the system but no harm done.

[BigCountry74]

Originally Posted by Mishri

I also never bothered acclimating crabs or snails.. those things are tough... not sure if it's any harder on them than jumping in cold water for us, but I wouldn't imagine so.. a bit shocking to the system but no harm done.

X2 same.

[Stevenliu9]

is the tank grounded? if you don't have a grounding probe I'd recommend one. pumps, heaters, and wave makers can leak charges to harm livestock in tank without you noticing it.

[dkeller_nc]

Originally Posted by Reefer PT

guess I should clarify. bags from LFS are floating and I have a hang on tank drip system that has a 2 cup container that is held above the bag. I refill several times and remove water from the bag with a turkey baster. After 45-60 min I remove the coral, dip it and place in the DT. Inverts and Fish don't get dipped. I know I will get yelled at for no QT but the LFS I get my fish from QT for 6 weeks and I have had him order me what I wanted so the fish never got to other tanks. I have seen the fish when they first go into QT and waited. I felt additional QT was not needed
dave

I'd recommend changing this procedure. I cannot say for sure, because it depends on exactly how fast the drip is, but the oxygen content of the water could easily get depleted over an hour's time with just a drip, even if the total volume of the bag's water is replaced over that time period.

But the thought of checking your LFS's salinity against your tank is a very good idea. I'd think it's unlikely that your LFS is keeping coral at a specific gravity that's more than 0.003 off of 1.026, but it's certainly not impossible. Moreover, it's rather common for an LFS to keep fish at a specific gravity of 1.014 - 1.016. Trying to acclimate a fish to a tank with 1.026 from 1.014 water in an hour is going to be problematic - this is one good reason to use a QT; it allows you to raise the specific gravity of the water to the DT's value over 3 or 4 days, and also allows the fish to settle in and feed without competition from tankmates.

[Reefer PT]

I think I figured it out! Since my last update I have added more fish without problem so I think that the yellow tangs I had die were stressed by the hippo tang and the wrasse most likely jumped. I know I also stated inverts die as well but in reality all I had added that died was a blue linkia star which from what I learned from others are very hard to acclimate. I have added some more mushrooms and polyps as I knew these were hardy and they are doing ok, slow growth. I just figured LPS and SPS were not for me as I lost the remaining colonies that I had in this tank.
My current affliction is that I have some cyno and after much research I decided to do the lights out approach. Because this tank is at my office I have never seen it several hours after dark. I looked in the tank today and am observing 1000's of flatworms all over the corals!!! And to make matters worse they look like the AEFW. Is it common for these critters to feed from the soft corals and not harm them? And bigger question is now what? I thought getting a melanarus wrasse might be a good first step. Now I knew there were some different kind of flat worms (small perfect ovals with a v marking on there back) in the tank a long time ago but they never seemed to be on the corals and I bought a mandarin and they seemed to disappear. Apparently mandarins dont like these.
I did pull out a small rock that had a few shrooms on it and did the freshwater dip for 15 seconds and maybe got close to fifty to a hundred worms out of the rock. but the shroom did not like the dip at all and am waiting to see if it comes out of it before trying again.
Like I said the hardy corals seem OK with being munched on so how should I proceed with treatment? I feel I have some time before I need to be drastic.

[Lucky Lefty]

Hopefully you did figure it out.
my assumption would be your acclimation procedure.
I'm pretty sure that once you open the bag, oxygen starts depleting quickly and ammonia starts rising rapidly.
I would cut the acclimation time in half and add an air stone to the bag.