Never owned a saltwater tank before HELP!!!

[Charley0400]

My husband and I purchased a 215 gallon fish tank. It is set up for salt water but we used it for freshwater for a few months to see if we could keep up with that (4 Oscars and 2 arawana). Everything has gone "swimmingly" with the freshwater, so we cleaned the tank and have replaced the freshwater with saltwater. I am patiently waiting for the tank to get well established while researching different options of fish. I am very much drawn to aggressive fish or very exotic fish (something not often seen). I am leaning towards building the tank around a lionfish (Volitan ?sp?) with a yellow headed moray (later to be replaced with a Japanese dragon eel once I get some experience with eels).

Does anyone have any suggestions on other ideas or building upon this one?

[scooter31707]

If building around the Lionfish, I recommend staying away from Triggers and Puffers as they are known to peck and bite at the Lionfish fins. On that note what doesn't work for others might work for you. Foxface, Maroon Clownfish, Tangs, Anglers, and maybe Angelfish.

[gone fishin]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1031074

Since this is your first foray into saltwater the link may be of some use to you.

There is also an aggressive fish forum that you may want to post in as well. Good luck.

[Charley0400]

Oh my gosh! I read the beginning of the post..... And a couple comments down..... Now I'm so lost lol.... I have the 215 gallon tank (salt), it is equipped with a sump and protein skimmer (although I don't understand the purpose for either of these, everything I have been told and read seem to put emphasis on them so they must be of some importance), water is being purchased premixed from a local fish store (which seems to be abbreviated lfs on here... Yes.... Im THAT new lol), water will be tested regularly (I'm thinking 2x a week... Is that enough?), live rock and sand with plenty of hiding places for the eel once firmly in place.......... Am I missing anything?

[tzylak]

Welcome to RC!!
It is a pleasure to read about a newcomer who starts with RESEARCH and PATIENCE (and not a fish purchase from the lfs)! Excellent!! -Both are vital to the success of this hobby.
Yes, you have 2-4 weeks to read STICKYs and plan your venture as the water matures.

[hotelbravo]

Welcome that seems like it will be a great setup.
How big is the sump?
Which brand and model protien skimmer do you have since eels are high waste producers a good skimmer is a must?
What type of lighting do you have?
How many lbs of live rock are you going with and will you be binding them together to prevent the eel from toppling them over on himself?
What is the length and width of the 210 gallon?
Will you be adding it any jets to provide water movement?

[NS Mike D]

Are you setting up a fish only tank, a fish only with live rock, or an reef tank? That will help you with the proper set up.

Being new to saltwater, this was one thing I needed to understand before moving forward. I wanted it all, and soon discovered that it's not so simple.

Fish only is the basic and easiest to set up and straight forward filtration. Fish only with live rock keeps the fish the main focus but adds another dimension with the live rock.

in a reef tank, the coral and invertebrates are the stars with the fish complimenting the aquascape.

Corals (and other invertebrates) are much more sensitive to water chemistry, lighting and other marine life. Many additives for fish can are not good for invertebrates. Thus the filtration systems are more complex.


BTW, the protein skimmer use small bubbles to remove organic compounds before they break down in the ammonia cycle (think that smelly foam on a beach). While fish can withstand higher levers of the nitrates (the final stage of the ammonia cycle), many corals cannot. So the filters that use hosts nitrifying bacteria (bio balls, sponges etc) produce nitrates very quickly and are not recommended of reef tanks. This protein skimmers are used instead.

Refugiums are added to the sump so that macro algae can consume what nitrates are being produced and to provide a safe haven for the little pod critters and microscopic life to reproduce and ultimately supply a steady source of food to display tank.


Read up on the sand. For sand to be a filter bed, you need two inches with the top layer hosting different bacteria than the lower level. They can't live together and the top layer needs to be turned over to prevent a collapse. If you aren't doing a reef tank, consider no substrate or fully cleaning your substrate with your regular water changes as you would a freshwater tank.

Not to be biased, and this is a reef site, I chose to go with a nano reef. A good friend wanted a predator fancy fish tank for his multi million dollar home but after watching the early stages of my reef tank, he totally changed his mind after getting engulfed by the fascinating and amazing marine life and relationships of the reef tank.

[ThRoewer]

Originally Posted by NS Mike D

... in a reef tank, the coral and invertebrates are the stars with the fish complimenting the aquascape. ...

This is unfortunately the common view. And many of the tanks I see here are rather coral collections than naturally looking biotopes.
To me recreating a natural looking biotope is the highest level of a reef tank.

I'm in the process of growing a reef to provide my fish a natural and intellectually stimulating environment. The fish are the stars and the corals the decoration. Of course you need to match both to be compatible.
Think of it like living in a nicely decorated house versus living in a barren shed.

Fish that live in a tank that largely resembles their natural environment will behave more natural, have brighter colors and be overal healthier.

Also most underestimate the intellectual and social stimuli fish need to not just survive but thrive. For that reason I aim at keeping all my fish in pairs or social groups.

The fish you have selected can to my knowledge be sexed and kept in pairs which will give you an even more special tank and interesting social interactions (single lion fish can get boring very fast).
Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish Dendrochirus brachypterus
How to Identify a Male Lionfish From a Female
Some eels alter colors; other morays, their sex

Originally Posted by NS Mike D

Corals (and other invertebrates) are much more sensitive to water chemistry, lighting and other marine life. Many additives for fish can are not good for invertebrates. Thus the filtration systems are more complex.
.

If coral means "stony coral" than this is largely true. But coral has a much larger meaning and there are quite a few that will not only survive but actually thrive in "dirty" water. Actinia anemones work great in a fish tank and some clownfish like A. clarkii even accept them as hosts.
There are also quite a few zoas (usually the ones not in high regard among the fancy zoa collectors) that do well with less than perfect water quality.

And then there are all the other inverts like feather duster worms and crabs.

Certain cleaner shrimp like to hang out near moray eels which would make a nice biotope.

I would not forgo inverts with fish like the ones you are interested in. They are actually more reef safe than most fish people keep in their reef tanks.


As for biological filter and skimmer:
Think of the bio filter as the liver of your tank that transforms toxic metabolites (Ammonia, Nitrite) into less toxic (Ammonium, Nitrate) while the skimmer is the equivalent to your kidneys that actually remove food leftovers and metabolites before they decompose to toxic substances. But the skimmer is also what you could consider the lungs of your tank and improves the gas exchange tremendously.

A bio filter is not required if the tank is set up with a lot of live rock - that will be enough of a bio filter in itself. In this case you may just want to have a mechanical filter to remove particulates, leftover food, poo,... Of course that filter should be cleaned frequently, ideally daily.

A skimmer is something I would never want to skip on, even if it is only for enhancing the oxygenation of the water.

[Charley0400]

We are just doing live rock with the fish... It is a trigger system skimmer and sump (which is 40 gallons). We have a ton of bioballs, as well.

I had not thought of latching the rock together to make it completely safe for the eel... What is a safe material to use for that?

My husband is going to get a smaller tank for a coral reef type tank... He wants to try to recreate the either the drop off or "school" area from finding memo lol. I'm sure I will be asking more questions when we purchase that tank too :-)

[RocketEngineer]

My suggestion: Take 6-12 months and read everything you can.

Start with: The Conscientious Marine Aquarist: A Commonsense Handbook for Successful Saltwater Hobbyists

Once you've read that cover to cover, go through ALL of theSetup: How To as linked above.

The single biggest mistake you can make in this hobby is to rush. "Nothing good ever happens fast". Getting a system up and running is easy. Keeping it stable long term is the hard part and should be your #1 goal. Stability means the critters in your care last their full life in acceptable conditions. The truly successful reef keepers have fish that have been DECADES in their care, normally have spawning fish and constantly growing corals.

[Charley0400]

I appreciate the suggestion on a book.... It's difficult to trust so many different sites saying so many different things. It will be my next purchase!

I have also been looking at all my options for fish comparable for a lionfish that will fit in this tank. I know everything in liking will not comfortably fit in 215... But I'm leaving my options open as long as everything in considering will get along well enough. Here is what I'm considering:

Volitan lionfish
Yellow headed moray eel or a ribbon eel (will eventually be replaced with a Japanese dragon)
Emperor angel or regal angel (preferably emperor)
Achilles tang or naso tang (I'm concerned the Achilles may be too small)
Niger trigger (only if it won't beat up my lion. I know they can be bullies)
Miniatus grouper
Marine betta (I know almost nothing about these so far... Are they even compatable?)
Black and orange batfish

Your thoughts on my choices and how many of those can I comfortably fit around my lion and eel?

[BigBlueTang]

I was actually a lot like you... I had just bought a Betta fish and then I was looking up why to give it for treats, and I found this awesome site! I have been lurking around since around October 2014... And still I know nothing compared to these guys. I'm going FOWLR, like you, and the first fish list I had included a blonde naso tang, blue hippo tang, emperor angel, and clown triggerfish. Take my and rockets advice and spend a lot of time just lurking, and learning everything you can. Trust me, I'm just about to start my 75 gal build and I can't wait!!! Good luck with your set up!

[hotelbravo]

Originally Posted by Charley0400

I appreciate the suggestion on a book.... It's difficult to trust so many different sites saying so many different things. It will be my next purchase!

I have also been looking at all my options for fish comparable for a lionfish that will fit in this tank. I know everything in liking will not comfortably fit in 215... But I'm leaving my options open as long as everything in considering will get along well enough. Here is what I'm considering:

Volitan lionfish
Yellow headed moray eel or a ribbon eel (will eventually be replaced with a Japanese dragon)
Emperor angel or regal angel (preferably emperor)
Achilles tang or naso tang (I'm concerned the Achilles may be too small)
Niger trigger (only if it won't beat up my lion. I know they can be bullies)
Miniatus grouper
Marine betta (I know almost nothing about these so far... Are they even compatable?)
Black and orange batfish

Your thoughts on my choices and how many of those can I comfortably fit around my lion and eel?

the only thing I can speak about from experience is the marine betta. I own one and it is a great addition to my tank. however I do not think it will be a great addition to yours with the eel. I feel that judging from the way my marine betta acts that it would be an easy target for an eel. mine is very slow and just kind of hovers in caves throughout the rockwork. it does come out often and even when it is out and about it is moving at a snails pace. it does not seem to be intimidated by any fish in my tank.

[Code4]

Muahaha, welcome on board. I personally enjoy the peaceful fish. My job is full of crazies, my tank must be different. I tested my water almost daily at first. Then less as time went by. I like fine gravel so I can vacuum it like a fresh water tank. Like they say, go slow. Read and learn. You are off to a great beginning. And find what works for you. Marine Bettas, hmm, must check into this one.

Shelley

[NS Mike D]

Originally Posted by ThRoewer

This is unfortunately the common view. And many of the tanks I see here are rather coral collections than naturally looking biotopes.
To me recreating a natural looking biotope is the highest level of a reef tank.

I'm in the process of growing a reef to provide my fish a natural and intellectually stimulating environment. The fish are the stars and the corals the decoration. Of course you need to match both to be compatible.
Think of it like living in a nicely decorated house versus living in a barren shed.

Fish that live in a tank that largely resembles their natural environment will behave more natural, have brighter colors and be overal healthier.

Also most underestimate the intellectual and social stimuli fish need to not just survive but thrive. For that reason I aim at keeping all my fish in pairs or social groups.

The fish you have selected can to my knowledge be sexed and kept in pairs which will give you an even more special tank and interesting social interactions (single lion fish can get boring very fast).
Fuzzy Dwarf Lionfish Dendrochirus brachypterus
How to Identify a Male Lionfish From a Female
Some eels alter colors; other morays, their sex


If coral means "stony coral" than this is largely true. But coral has a much larger meaning and there are quite a few that will not only survive but actually thrive in "dirty" water. Actinia anemones work great in a fish tank and some clownfish like A. clarkii even accept them as hosts.
There are also quite a few zoas (usually the ones not in high regard among the fancy zoa collectors) that do well with less than perfect water quality.

And then there are all the other inverts like feather duster worms and crabs.

Certain cleaner shrimp like to hang out near moray eels which would make a nice biotope.

I would not forgo inverts with fish like the ones you are interested in. They are actually more reef safe than most fish people keep in their reef tanks.


As for biological filter and skimmer:
Think of the bio filter as the liver of your tank that transforms toxic metabolites (Ammonia, Nitrite) into less toxic (Ammonium, Nitrate) while the skimmer is the equivalent to your kidneys that actually remove food leftovers and metabolites before they decompose to toxic substances. But the skimmer is also what you could consider the lungs of your tank and improves the gas exchange tremendously.

A bio filter is not required if the tank is set up with a lot of live rock - that will be enough of a bio filter in itself. In this case you may just want to have a mechanical filter to remove particulates, leftover food, poo,... Of course that filter should be cleaned frequently, ideally daily.

A skimmer is something I would never want to skip on, even if it is only for enhancing the oxygenation of the water.

Glad I had the guts to post as a newbie and get a different perspective from what had been brainwashed into me.

[Sk8r]

Go to the top of this forum and read the thread SETTING UP. That will discuss equipment, function, chemistry, and all aspects.

[lilyep125]

best advice I can give is find out ALL (or most) of the fish you want first and go from there. That way you dont start off with something you really wanted but is too aggressive and kills anything new after it. You can also post in the thread for checking out intended fish purchases and they give some really great, straightforward advice

[SammieT]

Originally Posted by scooter31707

If building around the Lionfish, I recommend staying away from Triggers and Puffers as they are known to peck and bite at the Lionfish fins. On that note what doesn't work for others might work for you. Foxface, Maroon Clownfish, Tangs, Anglers, and maybe Angelfish.

I actually have a puffer and a lionfish. They are fine together, it might be different from others

[OrQidz]

The sticky for checking your intended purchases will be helpful, check it out. Read it a little bit to see how the preferred format for questions is. Good luck and have fun!

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by NS Mike D

in a reef tank, the coral and invertebrates are the stars with the fish complimenting the aquascape.

While that does seem to be the overwhelming thought on this forum, I feel that fish are more the focal point. I do enjoy the awesome corals and aquascapes, but feel that it compliments the fish, and that most people outside the hobby are more interested in the fish as well. Just my opinion of course.

As for more on topic, it def helps to take it slow. I let the tank sit with just rock, water, sand and a small clean up crew for almost a month. But then I think I rushed it adding multiple fish and shrimp at once. Ended up losing a fish, the goby from my goby/pistol pair. At that point it really sunk in to take things slowly.

And just as everyone else said, read read read. Though again, take it slowly there too. I read a TON, then went to my LFS thinking I was ready, and realized I had read so much it was just info overload. I just stood there going "UMMMM". I'd suggest read as you go. Read how to set the tank up, then set the tank up. Read up on aquascaping (there are some awesome articles on this) when you are putting the rock in. Read about the cycle as it cycles. Then read up on stocking the fish, and the sticky to check your fish purchases is awesome.

Good luck!

[Joke]

Do not go with the ribbon eel they are terrible feeders and escape some of the most secured aquariums