Advice for setting up my first reef tank

[BeachBum2012]

Hey folks. I'm new to these parts. I've kept various freshwater tanks for 25 or more years now. Everything from large aggressive tanks to pico shrimp tanks, and everything inbetween. The last 5 years or so in the hobby were spend on planted tanks. I've been away from aquariums for a couple of years now, as I've been raising kids rather than fish. My daughter is now old enough that she wants Nemo to come live with us. I'm happy to oblige.

I'm working on my plans to set up a 40b reef with a sump for my first foray into the salty world of aquaria. This has been a great resource, among others, for research on not only methods of setting up a reef tank, but on the equipment as well. I look forward to becoming a part of this community.

On to my plan thus far. As I've said, I'm planning on starting with a 40b. Seems that everyone loves the size, and I can buy one for $40. Win win in my book. I'll be drilling the back to add a DIY version of a Ghost Overflow. I like the small in tank footprint and the room for a BeanAnimal drain setup. I'm planning 1" drain lines to a DIY sump. It'll have a gate valve on the main drain and the whole thing will be put together with unions for ease of maintenance.

As for the rest of the equipment I have some ideas after researching and talking to people at various lfs.

• Reef Octopus Classic 110INT
• Eheim 1260 Return Pump
• Tunze ATO with DIY reservoir
• JBJ 1/5 HP Chiller
• Internal circulation pumps are unknown as of yet. MP10s or 40s down the line, but cheaper to start with
• Jebao DP4 dosing pumps if/when needed
• Heater will be whatever I can find. My house stays about 78 at the coolest year round so I don't need anything super over the top here
• Neptune Apex system when I can talk the wife into it
• RODI as soon as I can convince the wife that it'll be great to have RO drinking water for the fridge and ice maker

Other than test kits, is there anything that I'm missing? Suggestions or alterations to my plans? Tell me I'm crazy? Any input would be much appreciated. Thanks a ton.

[Sk8r]

You need ro/di for your first fill.
Heater: Eheim. A cheap one can burn your house down.
Chiller---only if you don't have ac. Use a fan on the water surface in emergency.
For a first tank, I'd recommend 100 gallons with a 30 gallon fuge/sump. Anything smaller won't keep most highly desired fishes. If you are going reef, however, a smaller tank might work fine...just stick to blennies and gobies, that size fish.
Apex controller is good. I've run for decades with no controller, just hardware store timers at about 10.00 each.
You haven't mentioned lights, which is the most critical part of a reef. Without the right lights for the right corals, they won't live.

We also have the SETTING UP sticky.

[BeachBum2012]

Thanks for the reply. In response to some of your suggestions, I have access to free DI water at work. Just have to lug it home. Chiller because my house hits 85 during the day all summer long. No room for bigger at this time, but I don't need a bunch of fish.

Lights are where I'm lost. No idea where I'm going there yet.

[CStrickland]

These are good starter powerheads for your in tank circulation http://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00L...xcL&ref=plSrch two of them is fine for a 40b. Down the line if you like, you can buy fancy wavemakers and keep these for mixing water and quarantine.

This is a good starter light http://m.ebay.com/itm/MarsAqua-Dimma...-/370857093101 the edges of the tank might be a little dim, but you can add another later.

I'd put the money you save there into a decent heater, when a cheap one breaks it gets stuck on and cooks your tank.

If your kids going to want an anemone for nemo you'll want to manage those expectations now, they need a mature tank.

I agree you might not need a chiller. I think the old school lights and pumps heated up the water more or something, you see a lot of tanks without them nowadays (especially if you go led). I'd hold off buying it, and if your tank is too hot during the cycle you can pick one up, realistically summer will be over before you have much living in there anyways.

[BeachBum2012]

Thanks for the links. As for the heater, I have multiple quality heaters running around from my fresh water days, that is what I meant by whatever I can find.

Also, valid point on the chiller. I suppose that by the time I'd be done cycling summer will probably be over. That is a big expense that I can probably delay until next summer.

I like the idea a using the cheap powerheads for mixing/QT down the line as well.

It looks like that light is about 16 inches wide or so? It that enough coverage for a 36 inch wide tank?

[hossa81]

The jebao rw series pumps are awesome, super quiet, and pretty cheap. I got one in a 20 high and it can make a pretty significant wave. For heaters, I use aqueon pro heaters and have never had a problem.

[BeachBum2012]

Thank you also for the ideas.

Keep them coming folks. I'm going to start with the tank, overflow and stand as they are DIY projects and should keep me busy for a bit. I'm going to hold off on buying anything as Reefapalooza will be here next month and I may be able to get some better prices on equipment that I am looking into.

[CStrickland]

Originally Posted by BeachBum2012

It looks like that light is about 16 inches wide or so? It that enough coverage for a 36 inch wide tank?

I have 2 on a 4 foot by 1 foot tank, so yeah the corners will be dark. Depends what you want to grow under it and if you'd be happy keeping needier coral toward the center and mushrooms and softies further out. Your lighting really depends on your tastes in coral, fish don't care much. That's an example of a "black box" or "Chinese" led if you want to google them or search this forum for more info. There are other brands too, most sell on eBay. I like how these are 3watt led's, with a full spectrum, and the price. The fans are not silent tho, and some colors don't pop (especially yellow) but people have diff taste in lights, I prefer a sunnier range, folks that like the bluer end don't mind that as much. I plugged mine into a pair of $6 lamp timers from the hardware store, each has 2 plugs so the blues and whites have their own timers, blues on for a while before and after whites. That's a gradual change, but you can't program a sunrise into these lights, they dim manually.

When you are comparing led's the important info is called "par value" you can look up the par needs of diff coral, and compare it to what a light gives off. There is a special meter for measuring par and each tank is different, but you can find "par maps" online for diff lights where people post the readings they have gotten. That gives you an idea of a particular lights capability, so you know it will support the coral you like. The manufacturers also make claims, but I don't trust that much.

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by hossa81

The jebao rw series pumps are awesome, super quiet, and pretty cheap. I got one in a 20 high and it can make a pretty significant wave. For heaters, I use aqueon pro heaters and have never had a problem.

Thanks. I'll check them out.

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

I have 2 on a 4 foot by 1 foot tank, so yeah the corners will be dark.

Thanks for all of the info. I too prefer a sunnier look. Perhaps I could add some t5 lights to supplement some more daylight feel.

I am familiar with par coming from the planted freshwater side of the hobby. I even have access to a par meter to make real measurements if need be. I'll absolutely take you advise on researching the par requirements for different corals before buying anything.

I'm going to start with the tank, stand, and overflow first. Reefapolooza is coming to town next month so I'm going to hold off on other equipment purchases in case there are some good deals there.

[CStrickland]

sounds like you're on the right track, good luck!

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

sounds like you're on the right track, good luck!

That's good to hear. Thanks. I'll be sure to document my progress with lots of photos to share. Thanks for the help.

[BeachBum2012]

Well, talked the wife into the RODI with drinking water tank so I can hook it to the fridge. That's on the way from BRS.

Also have a pair of RW-4s in the garage, a low profile overflow box on the way, and will be picking up two 40b tanks while they're on sale in the next day or two.

Still trying to decide on a return pump. I like the look of the new M1, but it's got quite the price tag. I like the idea of being able to hook it up to a backup though. Also torn on the sump. I really want to try and build a custom acrylic sump with a refugium, but I can't figure out a design I like, and I'm no sure I want to wait that long.

Anyhow, that's where I stand now. I'm sure things will change during/after Reefapolooza this weekend. Thanks for looking.

[Reef Frog]

So 78 F is the coolest and 85F is the hottest inside ambient temperatures in your house? I don't even think you need a heater and running an old cheapie is a risk not worth taking IMO.

Keep in mind most reef tanks run 4F to 8F above the ambient room temperature, thanks primarily to all the pumps you need. And 82F is around the maximum suggested reef tank temperature (some folks go higher but I prefer to have a margin of error).

For that reason I'd look into the coolest running sump & circulation pump(s) you can afford. Like an MP-10 for internal circulation & possibly an external pump for a return.

In your case, I think a chiller is great to have for insurance, but you may want to monitor the tank thoroughly for temperature issues before putting life in the tank. Personally, I would also consider a Ranco temperature controller that would kick in a fan on the sump and over the display tank. This will help the chiller keep up with cooling and hopefully help you out in the event of a chiller malfunction.

Is it possible to keep your room temp below 85F during the summer? My tank (T5 w ventilated hood) averages 6-8F over ambient room temp that varies from 72-75F. If my tank were in your house, it would likely crash in a room of 85F without a chiller, which I have as an insurance.

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by Reef Frog

So 78 F is the coolest and 85F is the hottest inside ambient temperatures in your house? I don't even think you need a heater and running an old cheapie is a risk not worth taking IMO.

I meant whatever I can find in my supply of stuff around the garage. I have a bunch of quality heaters from my years on the freshwater side.

Keep in mind most reef tanks run 4F to 8F above the ambient room temperature, thanks primarily to all the pumps you need. And 82F is around the maximum suggested reef tank temperature (some folks go higher but I prefer to have a margin of error).

For that reason I'd look into the coolest running sump & circulation pump(s) you can afford. Like an MP-10 for internal circulation & possibly an external pump for a return.

In your case, I think a chiller is great to have for insurance, but you may want to monitor the tank thoroughly for temperature issues before putting life in the tank. Personally, I would also consider a Ranco temperature controller that would kick in a fan on the sump and over the display tank. This will help the chiller keep up with cooling and hopefully help you out in the event of a chiller malfunction.

Thankfully it'll be winter by the time I'm up and running, so I should at least be able to hold off on the chiller until spring next year. I want to also have an Apex running everything by then, to include temperature control.


Is it possible to keep your room temp below 85F during the summer? My tank (T5 w ventilated hood) averages 6-8F over ambient room temp that varies from 72-75F. If my tank were in your house, it would likely crash in a room of 85F without a chiller, which I have as an insurance.

We try to keep the house temperature down, but our electric bill jumped to nearly $400 this year just trying to keep the house at 80F while we are home. I'm looking into better insulation and upgrades to my cooling system and that might help, but a chiller might be the only way to go for next summer.

I've looked into running an external pump for thermal reasons as well as to save sump space. I'm also hoping to upgrade to MP-10s down the line. Just a little steep on the price for now when I'm setting up everything else.

Thanks for the advice. All of the help is much appreciated.

[BeachBum2012]

I've got an idea for the sump. Please let me know what you folks think.



The ATO chamber is about 7.5 gallons filled to the top. The refugium is 8.2 gallons to the cutout in the baffle. The skimmer section and return sections will depend on the fill height determined by need of my chosen skimmer. I'd guess around 5.5 gallons for the skimmer and 3 gallons for the return if set at 8 inches of height.

[BeachBum2012]

[CStrickland]

Yasss!!!

PS I think your compartments will be too small to clean properly. The water slows down when it hits the sump and crud can settle there. Even after the socks you'll have poop from pods and bacteria etc. Also, some say you need more fuge than that to make it worth the trouble, idk I don't have one. With fuges you need to move the water enough so that the light doesn't grow cyanobacter instead of chaeto. Your design looks like it could stagnate.
Here's some design ideas that might help http://www.melevsreef.com/taxonomy/term/142 there's a lot of good sump info on that site

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

Yasss!!!

PS I think your compartments will be too small to clean properly. The water slows down when it hits the sump and crud can settle there. Even after the socks you'll have poop from pods and bacteria etc. Also, some say you need more fuge than that to make it worth the trouble, idk I don't have one. With fuges you need to move the water enough so that the light doesn't grow cyanobacter instead of chaeto. Your design looks like it could stagnate.
Here's some design ideas that might help http://www.melevsreef.com/taxonomy/term/142 there's a lot of good sump info on that site

Thanks a ton for the input. What size fuge do you think would be ideal for a 40b?

[CStrickland]

Well, it's a tool like any other. What job do you want it to perform for your tank?

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

Well, it's a tool like any other. What job do you want it to perform for your tank?

Well, nutrient export through macro algae growth, and sustaining microfauna would be my two real goals. Other than that, they look cool. Lol

[CStrickland]

Supposedly bigger is better for nutrient export some say like 1/3 the tank volume even. IMO microfauna is kinda overrated unless you have a mandarin, it's just more poop and can drive down your alk. You can also put macro right in the display since your tanks too small for any seriously herbivoracious fish. I've had shaving brushes and red stuff in my dt that looked really cool.

When I started my tank I though a fuge was necessary, cause it seemed like everyone has them, and biodiversity or whatever. But I think they don't really help that much, and if it turns into another place for detritus to collect and decay, your nitrate increase can outweigh the benefits. So I set my sump up to be easily cleaned, I think catching poop there and removing it is a better way to achieve the good water quality my tank thrives on.

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by CStrickland

Supposedly bigger is better for nutrient export some say like 1/3 the tank volume even. IMO microfauna is kinda overrated unless you have a mandarin, it's just more poop and can drive down your alk. You can also put macro right in the display since your tanks too small for any seriously herbivoracious fish. I've had shaving brushes and red stuff in my dt that looked really cool.

When I started my tank I though a fuge was necessary, cause it seemed like everyone has them, and biodiversity or whatever. But I think they don't really help that much, and if it turns into another place for detritus to collect and decay, your nitrate increase can outweigh the benefits. So I set my sump up to be easily cleaned, I think catching poop there and removing it is a better way to achieve the good water quality my tank thrives on.

A lot of interesting info there. I've got plenty of time. I'll have to give it all a lot of thought.

[WaReefer458]

I just built my 40 and it seems like you have made mostly good choices on equipment. My 40 is drilled for 3/4 return, 1.5 street drain ( you want bigger than a 1" or u get slurping noises ). I bought a single mp40 which is more than enough, 1 Kessil 360we on a Kessil controller but if you are getting an apex then you don't need it, aquac ev 120 skimmer on a mag5 pump, mag 9.5 return pump, and a gravity fed top off. After I get some corals in the tank I'll add the dosing pumps and some other goodies. Just don't skimp on equipment. Quality stuff lasts. My whole setup is just under 3k but I'll be able to grow anything in the tank once everything is settled.

[BeachBum2012]

Originally Posted by WaReefer458

I just built my 40 and it seems like you have made mostly good choices on equipment. My 40 is drilled for 3/4 return, 1.5 street drain ( you want bigger than a 1" or u get slurping noises ). I bought a single mp40 which is more than enough, 1 Kessil 360we on a Kessil controller but if you are getting an apex then you don't need it, aquac ev 120 skimmer on a mag5 pump, mag 9.5 return pump, and a gravity fed top off. After I get some corals in the tank I'll add the dosing pumps and some other goodies. Just don't skimp on equipment. Quality stuff lasts. My whole setup is just under 3k but I'll be able to grow anything in the tank once everything is settled.

Thanks for your input. I'm already subscribed to your build. Love the look of your setup.

I like the look of the kessils, bit I absolutely need a hood over the tank. You have a 10 month old that pulls cables, I have a 2 year old that would want to climb in and swim.