why do we waste money on clean up crews - Page 2

cloak · 10/08/2015, 10:32 AM

FWIW, I've yet to come across a snail that will make a pile of detritus disappear for me in a bare bottom tank. Some of these janitors get WAY too much credit IMO.

ddrueckh · 10/08/2015, 11:15 AM

Why I believe clean up crews can be important...

I have had a GHA problem for about a year. I ran a ton of GFO (2 cups of BRS high capacity GFO in a PhosBan Reactor on a 60 cube every 2 weeks) and did lots of water changes. Nothing I did reduced the algae problem. I did not feed much at all. Maybe one cube frozen food every 3 days. My phosphate and Nitrate always showed 0 on my tests. I understand that this is due to the algae taking up all the phosphates and nitrates as quickly as it is available. I recently added a clean up crew (mix of snails, crabs and a tuxedo urchin...thanks reefcleaners and lfs) and have had surprising results. My algae is going away quickly as the clean up crew eats it...but the best part is that my phosphates are going up. I now have a phosphate reading of .08 and am excited about it!

Why am I excited about my phosphate reading going up? Because I feel that my GFO and water changes are now actually removing the phosphate from the tank. I think that I have been throwing away expensive GFO without it doing anything. I don't believe that GFO can remove phosphate that is locked in algae. I also believe that the algae locked in much more phosphate than the GFO reactor could. A reactor of GFO running slowly just doesn't remove the phosphate a affectively as a tank full of algae does. Just running GFO will not kill the algae...it will just remove any phosphate that is in the water that passes through it. I believe that the clean up crew I added are releasing the phosphates that were locked in the algae. Running GFO and doing water changes is now removing the phosphates from my system.

It is my belief that if you have an algae problem (especially a bad one) that you need to get the phosphate released from the algae before you can remove it and get rid of the algae. We all know that pulling out as much algae as we can helps do this. I believe another way is to use a clean up crew. They release the phosphate into the water and we can then remove it with GFO and water changes...

Mayberry · 10/08/2015, 11:20 AM

Watching the cleanup crew is a lot of the fun in owning a reef tank to me.

tc2007 · 10/08/2015, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

They have a snail to take care of that called the Nassarius snail. They are really cool snails. They hide in the sand bed all the while cleaning out the deitrus and when you feed the tank their long sniffer nose sticks up out of the sand and next thing you know, they all pop out kind of like zombies attacking LOL Great fun to watch.

I have had bad luck with Nassarius snail. Put 4 in there and none seemed to survive.

cloak · 10/08/2015, 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ddrueckh

Why I believe clean up crews can be important...

I have had a GHA problem for about a year. I ran a ton of GFO (2 cups of BRS high capacity GFO in a PhosBan Reactor on a 60 cube every 2 weeks) and did lots of water changes. Nothing I did reduced the algae problem. I did not feed much at all. Maybe one cube frozen food every 3 days. My phosphate and Nitrate always showed 0 on my tests. I understand that this is due to the algae taking up all the phosphates and nitrates as quickly as it is available. I recently added a clean up crew (mix of snails, crabs and a tuxedo urchin...thanks reefcleaners and lfs) and have had surprising results. My algae is going away quickly as the clean up crew eats it...but the best part is that my phosphates are going up. I now have a phosphate reading of .08 and am excited about it!

Why am I excited about my phosphate reading going up? Because I feel that my GFO and water changes are now actually removing the phosphate from the tank. I think that I have been throwing away expensive GFO without it doing anything. I don't believe that GFO can remove phosphate that is locked in algae. I also believe that the algae locked in much more phosphate than the GFO reactor could. A reactor of GFO running slowly just doesn't remove the phosphate a affectively as a tank full of algae does. Just running GFO will not kill the algae...it will just remove any phosphate that is in the water that passes through it. I believe that the clean up crew I added are releasing the phosphates that were locked in the algae. Running GFO and doing water changes is now removing the phosphates from my system.

It is my belief that if you have an algae problem (especially a bad one) that you need to get the phosphate released from the algae before you can remove it and get rid of the algae. We all know that pulling out as much algae as we can helps do this. I believe another way is to use a clean up crew. They release the phosphate into the water and we can then remove it with GFO and water changes...

Just out of curiosity, was this bad hair alga problem within the first year of the tank being set up? What kind of rock did you use?

CStrickland · 10/08/2015, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cloak

FWIW, I've yet to come across a snail that will make a pile of detritus disappear for me in a bare bottom tank. Some of these janitors get WAY too much credit IMO.

This
But, I like watching them work and it's nice how they eat stuff from places I can't reach and then poop it where I can get it out easy.

Bent · 10/08/2015, 12:00 PM

I don't expect a lot out of my CUC other than visual enjoyment. Anything they manage to clean up is a bonus for me.

Although I will agree that all poop is not equal.

For example:
A sea hares digestive system is very simple and innefecient. Which is why they have to eat constantly. So they pretty much just turn the algae they consume Into little pellets of algae. Their poop is very nutrient rich because their GI tract sucks.

Other animals that eat their poop have very specialized and efficient GI systems and are able to extract the nutrients from it that the hares tract missed. These said animals eat the poop, extract what was missed, and poop again. Now the poop is so refined that there is only a tiny amount nutrients left in it. Other smaller microscopic organisms then refine the poop even further.

But, I don't think a CUC will be able to be more efficient than your siphon. JMO.

ddrueckh · 10/08/2015, 12:27 PM

Cloak,

The tank has been running for 18 months. I used live rock from liveaquaria. I'm sure there is phosphate in the rock. My point is that the phosphate can't get into the water column where I can remove it because the algae just absorbs it too quickly. The clean up crew helps release it into the water where I can remove it with GFO and water changes.

Allentown · 10/08/2015, 12:43 PM

I like turbo snails, they live a long long time, get nice and big and work on the glass. Shrimp are interesting to watch but I have the worst luck with shrimp attacking torch corals etc. tiny crabs never seem to live too long (they don't live years like turbo snails) and the larger crabs will also go after corals.

10/08/2015, 11:20 AM	#28
Mayberry Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Mount Airy, NC Posts: 79	Watching the cleanup crew is a lot of the fun in owning a reef tank to me. __________________ "I want patience and I want it now!"

10/08/2015, 12:00 PM	#32
Bent I got nothin' Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: The anals Posts: 6,420	I don't expect a lot out of my CUC other than visual enjoyment. Anything they manage to clean up is a bonus for me. Although I will agree that all poop is not equal. For example: A sea hares digestive system is very simple and innefecient. Which is why they have to eat constantly. So they pretty much just turn the algae they consume Into little pellets of algae. Their poop is very nutrient rich because their GI tract sucks. Other animals that eat their poop have very specialized and efficient GI systems and are able to extract the nutrients from it that the hares tract missed. These said animals eat the poop, extract what was missed, and poop again. Now the poop is so refined that there is only a tiny amount nutrients left in it. Other smaller microscopic organisms then refine the poop even further. But, I don't think a CUC will be able to be more efficient than your siphon. JMO. __________________ Quitters never lose. [QUOTE=CStrickland]Who gets mad at a starfish?[/QUOTE] Current Tank Info: 75g DT, 30G refugium, 10g chaeto tank, 50g stock tank basement sump

10/08/2015, 12:43 PM	#34
Allentown Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Augusta, Ga Posts: 975	I like turbo snails, they live a long long time, get nice and big and work on the glass. Shrimp are interesting to watch but I have the worst luck with shrimp attacking torch corals etc. tiny crabs never seem to live too long (they don't live years like turbo snails) and the larger crabs will also go after corals. __________________ NEW Build: 225g 72x27x27 Tigger Emerald 39 Sump, ConeS CO-3, 3xHydra 52, BRS 2 part dosers, Vortech MP-40 QD Gyre XF150, Neptune Wav x2, 2x Jaebo RW-4, SMR-1, MR-1

10/08/2015, 10:32 AM	#26
cloak Moved On Join Date: Jul 2000 Location: Stockton, CA Posts: 14,854	FWIW, I've yet to come across a snail that will make a pile of detritus disappear for me in a bare bottom tank. Some of these janitors get WAY too much credit IMO.

10/08/2015, 11:15 AM	#27
ddrueckh Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 184	Why I believe clean up crews can be important... I have had a GHA problem for about a year. I ran a ton of GFO (2 cups of BRS high capacity GFO in a PhosBan Reactor on a 60 cube every 2 weeks) and did lots of water changes. Nothing I did reduced the algae problem. I did not feed much at all. Maybe one cube frozen food every 3 days. My phosphate and Nitrate always showed 0 on my tests. I understand that this is due to the algae taking up all the phosphates and nitrates as quickly as it is available. I recently added a clean up crew (mix of snails, crabs and a tuxedo urchin...thanks reefcleaners and lfs) and have had surprising results. My algae is going away quickly as the clean up crew eats it...but the best part is that my phosphates are going up. I now have a phosphate reading of .08 and am excited about it! Why am I excited about my phosphate reading going up? Because I feel that my GFO and water changes are now actually removing the phosphate from the tank. I think that I have been throwing away expensive GFO without it doing anything. I don't believe that GFO can remove phosphate that is locked in algae. I also believe that the algae locked in much more phosphate than the GFO reactor could. A reactor of GFO running slowly just doesn't remove the phosphate a affectively as a tank full of algae does. Just running GFO will not kill the algae...it will just remove any phosphate that is in the water that passes through it. I believe that the clean up crew I added are releasing the phosphates that were locked in the algae. Running GFO and doing water changes is now removing the phosphates from my system. It is my belief that if you have an algae problem (especially a bad one) that you need to get the phosphate released from the algae before you can remove it and get rid of the algae. We all know that pulling out as much algae as we can helps do this. I believe another way is to use a clean up crew. They release the phosphate into the water and we can then remove it with GFO and water changes...

10/08/2015, 12:27 PM	#33
ddrueckh Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: Bay Area Posts: 184	Cloak, The tank has been running for 18 months. I used live rock from liveaquaria. I'm sure there is phosphate in the rock. My point is that the phosphate can't get into the water column where I can remove it because the algae just absorbs it too quickly. The clean up crew helps release it into the water where I can remove it with GFO and water changes.