Mandarin Goby

[Scubajoe1]

So my reef tank is now 4 months old with thousands of copepods at least last night when I looked in the tank. They seem to be more active at night or maybe I can only see them at night with the flashlight after the lights go out. Will my tank now support a mandarin goby?

Thanks

Scubajoe

[LauraBay]

There are a variety of other things at factor into whether or not the Mandarin will be a good addition to your tank at this point. What other fish do you have in the tank? What other fish do you plan to add to the tank later? Do you have any inverts that eat pods? All of these will make a difference in whether or not to Mandarin would be a good addition.

Personally I would wait a while longer and observe over a period of time whether the pod population seems to be stable or whether what you observed was just a temporary surge in the pod population. It's possible the surge in pods that you noticed is an indicator that an algae bloom is about to follow. If over the next couple months you notice a steady supply of pods AND you don't intend to add or already have other fish that would compete for the pods you may be okay. For the most part though people tend to encourage that you wait a year for the entire system to mature and stabilize before adding the Mandarin.

[Kidd Reef]

Originally Posted by LauraBay

There are a variety of other things at factor into whether or not the Mandarin will be a good addition to your tank at this point. What other fish do you have in the tank? What other fish do you plan to add to the tank later? Do you have any inverts that eat pods? All of these will make a difference in whether or not to Mandarin would be a good addition.

Personally I would wait a while longer and observe over a period of time whether the pod population seems to be stable or whether what you observed was just a temporary surge in the pod population. It's possible the surge in pods that you noticed is an indicator that an algae bloom is about to follow. If over the next couple months you notice a steady supply of pods AND you don't intend to add or already have other fish that would compete for the pods you may be okay. For the most part though people tend to encourage that you wait a year for the entire system to mature and stabilize before adding the Mandarin.

This is excellent advice. While your system is certainly large enough to sustain a mandarin once properly established thats without factoring variables like tankmates and such. id let your system establish a bit more and consider the fact that mandarins can be easily out competed for food by voracious eaters like wrasses's and the like.

[Scubajoe1]

Currently three clownfish, two anthius, scopus tang and hippo tang, sand sifting goby and one other tiny goby. bi-color blenny, six lined wrass and a fox face as far as the fish go. SPS coral and a few LPS pieces as well. All of these eat my brine shrimp I feed each day. Don't really see anyone really eating the copepods.

[Kidd Reef]

Originally Posted by Scubajoe1

Currently three clownfish, two anthius, scopus tang and hippo tang, sand sifting goby and one other tiny goby. bi-color blenny, six lined wrass and a fox face as far as the fish go. SPS coral and a few LPS pieces as well. All of these eat my brine shrimp I feed each day. Don't really see anyone really eating the copepods.

Six line wrasse is definitely going to be competing for copepods. and ive heard from a few people there can be some aggression towards mandarins from them.

IIRC SS Gobys will also also impact Copepod populations as they basically sift out the microfauna from the sandbed.

[LauraBay]

I agree completely. Six line wrasse will aggressively compete for pods in the tank and there have been many reports of the six lines just plain killing in Mandarins. In my experience I've found that clowns tend to pick at pods all day long also.

I would encourage you to wait to ensure that your pod population is going to be maintained over time. If your tank is really only four months old then there are already a lot of fish in there for a young tank and I'm guessing the tank still has a lot of maturing to do to catch up with the bioload.

[MondoBongo]

six line wrasse is a no go for dragonets.

[SNAKEMANVET]

I waited a year before my first mandy.After about six months in I noticed it eating Mysis and flake,so I bought a female for him.She started eating Mysis and flake after a year in my tank.Like others have said a six line is not good to have with mandys.If you get one just watch it carefully to see if it stays fat.

[laga77]

One of the best things you can do for your Manddys is feed them live white worms. First off, live foods are extremely nutritious, they will grow nice and fat like my two females. Also, live white worms live a couple of hours in SW. You can put them in the tank and they will last long enough for the fish to find them. The action of a live worm will get even the most picky eater to bite. Then, you could move to black worms and offer some variety in their diet.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by LauraBay

I agree completely. Six line wrasse will aggressively compete for pods in the tank and there have been many reports of the six lines just plain killing in Mandarins. In my experience I've found that clowns tend to pick at pods all day long also.

I agree. The odds of successful long term coexistence are marginal. Also, they are not gobies, they are a dragonet.

[East_St_Reefs]

X2 on LauraBay's advice. Wait at least 6 months before adding a mandarin to allow the tank to mature.

The 6-line will compete with a mandarin for the pods, but unlike some of the other posters, I've kept my small 6-line with my large mandarin for almost a year with no problems. They don't bother each other at all - I suspect its because the mandarin is bigger than the 6-line, so, if you have that factor in place, in a big enough system, I wouldn't worry about it too much.

[Scubajoe1]

So my tank is 9 months old. decided to add a spotted mandarin 1.5 months ago. he has been munching on what i assume are pods. i see him eating but cannot see what he is eating. Regardless yesterday he started eating my frozen brine. i guess he realized that one brine shrimp = 10 pods.

[hotelbravo]

Originally Posted by Scubajoe1

i guess he realized that one brine shrimp = 10 pods.

this is very wrong. 1 brine shrimp is not equal to any amount of copepod imo. the nutrients within 1 copepod are far better than 1 brine shrimp. brine shrimp greater than 6 hours old have next to no nutritional value and are commonly referenced as "the potato chip of the sea".

also i see you didnt take the advice about the 6 line wrasse hopefully there wont be a problem but many people find it to be an issue.

[Dkuhlmann]

Here's another way to look at it. A mandy is said to eat 6 pods per minute x 60 minutes per hour x 24 hours a day is 8640 pods more or less in a 24 hr period. That is what your tank needs to support in natural feeding your mandy! I don't know how fast they produce babies but you would need them to be producing at least twice that many per 24 hr period I would think in order to sustain one Mandarin goby

[criticalencore]

I have a mandarin that loves to catch the nori as the other fish eat it off the clip... also in there with a six line with no problem. There is no absolutes in this hobby.... I've had a lamarks angel that is "reef safe" that was anything but reef safe. Good luck on your mandarin

[ReefJunkie01]

There are a lot of variables to think about for a mandarin unfortunately. I really hope you do well with your mandarin Joe. You have him, now the key is to keep an eye on him for a couple of things:

1 - Make sure no one is being aggressive towards it (just keep an eye on the six line, hopefully will be ok but watch him).
2 - Keep an eye on the mandarin's stomach over the next couple of months. Even though he's eating, he may or may not be eating enough. The key is to keep an eye on his stomach looking at him from the underside (it's actually difficult to see his actual stomach unless looking at him from the underside because his stomach is covered on the top and sides by the two larger fins that stick out from his sides). Take a look at the picture attached, it points out where to look at.

Feeding brine shrimp is not so bad as long as it’s been enriched properly. Brine shrimp loose almost all of their nutritional value after about 8 days following hatching, but, if you enrich the brine, it basically becomes a “hot pocket” of sorts, basically carrying all of it’s stomach contents into the mandarin. Soaking the brine in something like selcon or vitachem will also help.

I have a mandarin I’ve owned for almost 7 months, and it’s been eating primarily frozen PE Mysis and a mixture of gut loaded brine shrimp and spriulina gut loaded brine shrimp further enriched with selcon. This mandarin has been doing very well, however, not all mandarins will convert to frozen foods easily. If he’s already eating it, then, great, but try and make sure it that it’s enriched brine, or try and add something more like shaved PE Mysis or frozen copepods into the mix so as to get him more nutrients in his stomach.

As far as competition for copepods, most fish (like the anthias) will only compete for copepods that are in the water column, except for wrasses. Wrasses (especially the six line), can and will pick the copepods off rock, so they are direct competition for the mandarin. Six lines also seem to have a bottomless stomach, and as long as there is food, they will seem to never stop eating.

One other thing to keep in mind is, if you’re supplementing the mandarin with frozen and keeping the copepods as the primary food, then that’s fine, just maybe add some enrichment to the brine. If however you find yourself with the frozen food being it’s primary food source, then, remember that you’ll need to feed frozen at least a few times a day. I’m feeding mine frozen 3 times a day and still on top of that it gets fed enriched live brine about 6-8 times a day. These fish love to graze, and I’ve learnt, if if you fill it up to the point that it will stop eating, 2 hours later it’s ready for more.

Good luck on your new addition, and I really hope you do well with it. Keep us posted.

[ReefJunkie01]

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

Here's another way to look at it. A mandy is said to eat 6 pods per minute x 60 minutes per hour x 24 hours a day is 8640 pods more or less in a 24 hr period. That is what your tank needs to support in natural feeding your mandy! I don't know how fast they produce babies but you would need them to be producing at least twice that many per 24 hr period I would think in order to sustain one Mandarin goby

+1, good thoughts, only thing I'd subtract is about 5-6 hours for sleep at night.

Another thing that may be of benefit is the following:

General tisbe reproduction is about 5-10% per day (5% in low nutrient system, 10% in high nutrient system) with no predation, so they reproduce fast enough to sustain life if allowed enough time, food, and protection from all being decimated.

Tigger pods, when they reproduce, can produce quite a lot of pods (a single female can produce around 20 pods per brood conservatively, and can produce 2 -3 subsequent broods within a few days of the previous brood hatch), but, they typically won't last long in a tank because, one, it takes about 21 days for a newborn to reproduce generally, and they rotate between being on the rock and being in the water column, so most of the time they will be eaten by fish way before they get to reproduction age.

[Dkuhlmann]

Originally Posted by ReefJunkie01

+1, good thoughts, only thing I'd subtract is about 5-6 hours for sleep at night.

Another thing that may be of benefit is the following:

General tisbe reproduction is about 5-10% per day (5% in low nutrient system, 10% in high nutrient system) with no predation, so they reproduce fast enough to sustain life if allowed enough time, food, and protection from all being decimated.

Tigger pods, when they reproduce, can produce quite a lot of pods (a single female can produce around 20 pods per brood conservatively, and can produce 2 -3 subsequent broods within a few days of the previous brood hatch), but, they typically won't last long in a tank because, one, it takes about 21 days for a newborn to reproduce generally, and they rotate between being on the rock and being in the water column, so most of the time they will be eaten by fish way before they get to reproduction age.

That depends on how much hiding space you have. My chaeto and rock portion of my sump is loaded with them. The only things in there that can or could eat them are a pair of peppermint shrimp haven't seen them in a while maybe the pods ate them? The other two would be hermit crabs lots of blue legged ones and then one HUGE Emerald green crab.

But man that chaeto is loaded with them.

[Scubajoe1]

Had the mandarin about a month now....the six line wrasse was a jerk for the first day but the Goby was like "Ain't nobody got time for that". He was the bravest little fish I have seen. Very your and not afraid of many things he never saw before. Brittle star touching him, tiger tail crawling over him as he slept at night. No one bothers him anymore except the cleaner shrimp wanting to touch him.

[ReefJunkie01]

Originally Posted by Dkuhlmann

That depends on how much hiding space you have. My chaeto and rock portion of my sump is loaded with them. The only things in there that can or could eat them are a pair of peppermint shrimp haven't seen them in a while maybe the pods ate them? The other two would be hermit crabs lots of blue legged ones and then one HUGE Emerald green crab.

But man that chaeto is loaded with them.

Yeah, that's very true. As long as they have enough hiding spots, they should be ok, hence the whole large tank premise. I've got a 46 bow front that's lined through the entire back side with chaeto, tucked behind the rock work. I used to have a black cap basslett that would spend half the day plunging into it for pods, lol.

[ReefJunkie01]

Originally Posted by Scubajoe1

Had the mandarin about a month now....the six line wrasse was a jerk for the first day but the Goby was like "Ain't nobody got time for that". He was the bravest little fish I have seen. Very your and not afraid of many things he never saw before. Brittle star touching him, tiger tail crawling over him as he slept at night. No one bothers him anymore except the cleaner shrimp wanting to touch him.

Hopefully it's just the normal establishing of who's dominant. If the six line isn't harassing it anymore, hopefully will be ok now. The tiger tail may just also be establishing dominance for the ground coverage though. As long as no one's nipping at each other you should be ok. Just keep watching them and keep an eye on the mandarin to make sure he has no scratches or nip marks. The mandarin can do some damage when fighting back though, they have a lot more energy than they show normally.

[laga77]

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[Alexraptor]

Originally Posted by ReefJunkie01

Hopefully it's just the normal establishing of who's dominant. If the six line isn't harassing it anymore, hopefully will be ok now. The tiger tail may just also be establishing dominance for the ground coverage though. As long as no one's nipping at each other you should be ok. Just keep watching them and keep an eye on the mandarin to make sure he has no scratches or nip marks. The mandarin can do some damage when fighting back though, they have a lot more energy than they show normally.

Oh I can definitely attest to that, my female Mandarin in particular makes A LOT of noise when feeding on rocks. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YCIePo0xW-Q
Sometimes I can even hear the sound outside of the tank, and even mistake it for my pistol shrimp, really freaky.

They can also be particularly vicious if in a foul mood as well. When I bought my male I saw a small one at the LFS being bullied by the larger females, and one of those ladies grabbed him by one of his pectoral fins and literally trashed him around like a ragdoll! It was brutal.