Neptune Systems Apex - Worth it for me?

[lpsouth1978]

Before you all start just throwing out yes's at me. I want to know what would make it worth it for my situation. I know that it will allow me to automate a lot of things, but I already have most of that covered with other equipment.

- My lights are a DIY LED and already have their own controllers in them. It would be WAY too much trouble to make them work with the Apex.
- I have Jebao RW-20 wavemakers on a JBWave controller.
- My dosing is all done using a Jebao 4 head dosing pump.
- My pH is monitored, and eventually my calcium reactor controlled, using a Milwaukee pH controller with lab grade probe.
- My temperature is regulated using a Ranco temperature controller.

Your input is appreciated. I need to be able to justify the cost and am not sure that it would be worth the cost at this point. Maybe you can all convince me otherwise.

[Bogue Chitto]

Can you monitor your tank from another state or while on vacation, that's the first thing I can think of

[ali1]

if its the 300g in your sig, Id say yes for two reasons. most equipment will have their own shutoff feature, however:

centralization- you can see everything from one page as opposed to individual readings.You can also control outlets from one page.

redundancy - the apex will give you condition shutoffs in addition to what your current equipment has.

if it was a biocube or smaller, id probably say not worth it.

[atreis]

Do you need one? No. You've controllers everywhere already. But you still might want it for centralization of the controllers (simplifying things) and to save from having to get yet another controller in the future.

[ca1ore]

I ran large tanks for decades without a controller. I recently bought an Apex, mainly for convenience and for the ability to enable somewhat more complex levels of control (redundant ATO control for example). Though folks will argue reliability, I'm not sure that's actually the case. Apex introduces a 'single point of failure', and while it is reliable and has some features designed to mitigate head unit failure, it's still a potential problem. Running multiple controllers clearly avoids this problem. Though each of those controllers are likely of lesser quality and more likely to individually fail.

Ultimately, I really like having an apex, and the pros definately outweighs the cons for me; but it's very much a nice to have rather than a must have.

[slief]

Just for the monitoring and failsafe values yes. None of what you are monitoring with will notify you of anything. You have thousands invested in your tank and I'd bet that you would wonder how you lived without it once you had it setup. Your ranco could be plugged into the Apex EB8 and the Apex would serve as a secondary monitor for it. Your Ranco would continue to control the temps but if something failed, the Apex would intervene and shut it off while sending you a notification. Same goes with the CaRx although if you have that setup properly, there is almost no need to even have a controller shutting the Co2 off. My Ca Rx pH is so stable that that my Apex never shuts off the Co2. It only serves as a failsafe. This is in large part due to the use of a Masterflex feed pump that keeps a constant and precisde flowrate through the Rx and a great regulator that insures perfectly consistent bubble rate. If my sump level is ever too low (potential leak), my Ca Rx is shut off and of course if my pH is too low the regulator is shut off but neither of those ever happen.

Dosing can impact pH so if something ever goes wrong there, the Apex can shut off the doser and let you know of an issue. ORP is useful for trends and can notify you of a potential crash. Salinity monitoring is useful if you use an ATO. I use my Apex for ATO control and salinity monitoring is part of my many failsafes. Sump level monitoring beyond ATO is valuable as well. Sump Too High and Sump Too Low are important things to monitor. Especially if you use an ATO or AWC. Too High shuts the skimmer, AWC, and ATO off and sends a notification. Too Low shuts the AWC and Ca Rx feed pump, Co2 and Rx recirc pump off and sends a notification. I also use water on the floor monitoring and monitor multiple areas around the tank including the sump area, ajacent closet where some of my plumbing is and also my shed outside where my RODI and Mixing tanks as well as my Ca Rx are.

I control my Kessils, my Tunzes, my RD3 230 closed loop pump and all of them are in sycn with each other in terms of flow patterns. The Tunze's are used for surge flow and a number of other flow profiles including a flush cycle that kicks up detritus. When flush cycle kicks in, My RD3 230 kicks up to a high power to help kick up anything that may have settled and send it into my overflow. At night my Tunze's and closed loop all slow down and give the fish some relative calm while saving power. The Apex for pump control, even the Jebao's offers so much more control that it makes controllers like the jebao or even the Tunze controller look like a joke. It's really nice to mix things up during the day and calm things down at night.

If temps get out of line, I get a notification. I also have fans on my light rack that kick on and blow across the water should the temps get too high. My UV fliter is shut off should temps get too high. I push a button at my Mixing station and my mixing pump turns on for an hour. My skimmer neck cleaner turns on automaticly for 15 seconds once a day. If my return pump is off, my skimmer is turned off and doesn't turn back on until the sump level returns to normal so as to prevent the skimmer from overflowing.

Then there is feed cycles. Some people like to shut pumps off during feeding. Push a button and the pumps of your choice shut off or slow down. I have the Neptune Auto Feeder that I use for supplemental feeding and it's great. I can feed as much and as often as I want automatically or from anywhere in the world with the push fo a button my smart phone, iPad or laptop. I also use a Neptune Dos for a thawed frozen food feeder for additional supplemental feeding. That happens once a day but again, I can feed from the push of a button from anywhere.

I throw all this out there as it might give you some additional thoughts as to how you would use an Apex beyond what you are already conrolling from multiple interfaces. You could eventually consolidate those to the Apex or just use the Apex as the failsafe for those other devices. Either way, there is obviously a lot more that the Apex brings to the table beyond what you are already controlling seperately.

After about 5 years of using an Apex and more than 15 years of using my first Generation Neptune Aqua Controller Gen 1 before the Apex, I can tell you that I would NEVER run a large system without a great controller like the Apex. I couldn't fathom maintaining and monitoring my tank without it. Stuff happens and my Apex has always been there whether it was a reactor leak that occured while I was in Europe and saved me from a disaster or an issue with a dosing pump that I was using for my ATO and the Apex notified me of a high sump level. Power outage notifications etc. No way I'd run a big tank with the kind of money I have invested in it without the controller. The controller cost is peanuts compared to what we invest in our tanks between equipment and live stock but the peace of mind that the Apex brings is priceless.

[lpsouth1978]

Originally Posted by Bogue Chitto

Can you monitor your tank from another state or while on vacation, that's the first thing I can think of

I have an IP camera on the tank that allows me to check in on the tank when wile I am away from home. I know thit is not the same, but since I have not left the state in more than 2 years, it has not been a big concern.

Originally Posted by ali1

if its the 300g in your sig, Id say yes for two reasons. most equipment will have their own shutoff feature, however:

centralization- you can see everything from one page as opposed to individual readings.You can also control outlets from one page.

redundancy - the apex will give you condition shutoffs in addition to what your current equipment has.

if it was a biocube or smaller, id probably say not worth it.

Both valid points, while centalization is not real important to me, I am not worried about having to get readings from multiple devices, redundancy is always something we need to consider in this hobby.

And yes, this is for the 300g.

[moondoggy4]

Having everything under the tank properly identified is very helpful incase you need to have something turned while you are gone, so this would work if you do not have a controller.

I would say no for a Apex the other company makes a unit for just monitoring not sure if it is any good or not but maybe look at that.

[sixpackgarage]

For me, my apex and all its features are an integral part of the reef keeping experience. I would not enjoy it as much without these capabilities. If it's not something you need, then spend the money elsewhere.

[lnataniel]

Wow, you guys are running serious equipment and using technology to make your life easier. Hope to get there some day.

[oscar.millan]

Yes, I would still get it and consolidate to a single unit. Minus the LEDs.

[Coelli]

I love my Apex and while my tank isn't as large as yours, I still find it extremely useful to have everything centralized and accessible from my phone (I have Fusion bookmarked).

A couple of times my Apex saved my tank:
- Fan connector got disconnected and my lights brought my tank up to 82 degrees. The Apex turned the lights off and sent my boyfriend and I SMS notifications that the tank was hot, so we had it fixed in a few minutes.
- Skimmer started to overflow (into an external collection container) kicking my kalk'd ATO on and driving up the PH. Apex shut the ATO off and sent a high PH notification via SMS. I was at work and it was a 90 minute drive home - could have been disastrous.

I love having feed cycles; hit the button, all pumps, the heater, and the skimmer turn off, after 15 minutes the pumps come back on. 5 minutes later the skimmer and heater come back online. I'm about to set up a second feed cycle for coral, so only the circulation pumps will run and then the return will come back on after an hour. This way I can feed the tank late, right before bed, and not have to be around to turn the return back on (I have forgotten a couple of times).

My ATO turns on every 15 minutes and is limited to 15 seconds run time. This helps spread out the kalk addition. Every 12 hours, the ATO shuts off, a powerhead turns on in the reservoir for 2 minutes to stir the kalk, and the ATO turns back on an hour later once the kalk has settled.

I'm about to plumb a second tank into my sump and will be adding leak detection modules between the two tanks. If anything happens and either starts to overflow, the Apex will shut the return off and send an SMS.

Do you NEED an Apex? No, but I wouldn't set up a system without one after using mine for a year.

[odj22sailor]

I just ordered an Apex Gold on a Black Friday special....Cant wait to set it and join the conversations of happiness and success.

[Reef Frog]

Being able to monitor temperature and the ability to know if the power goes out while you're away could be priceless. A wet floor alarm that can be seen while away could also save an aquarist massive grief.

That said, I have neither !!

[kenpau]

Knowing what I know now, if I was to start a new system from scratch my second purchase after the aquarium itself would be an Apex.
It's not just the ability to control different lighting, powerhead schedules etc but it's an intelligent unit, almost the brain of the aquarium. If something goes wrong it can be programmed to take control by shutting down various peices of equipment such as return pumps, heaters, lighting etc. It will also email you to let you know there is a problem and what it has done, you can then log in on your phone or computer and make any changes you wish from anywhere in the world.
Can you run a system without one, of course. But it's an insurance policy, especially with an expensive 300g system which I'm assuming would have livestock running into the thousands of dollars mark.