Hammer coral needs help - Page 2

Member No. 1 · 12/19/2015, 06:17 PM

I said nothing about the getting kits and testing. I'm all for it. I'm not debating salts here either. But you told the OP to change salts and my point is he doesn't have to. The salt he is using is fine.

Bottom line, to the OP,mbefore you make any changes, get your water tested for ca, mg, and alk.

CStrickland · 12/19/2015, 06:25 PM

I think the larger problem is OP thought they were using a reef salt, when it was a marine salt. They have some reading to do. Also that substrate. Also the tangs. Also that nem.

It's more like a general lack of research than one particular thing. When asked for parameters they say its fine, but then it turns out they don't have a number of important tests. I think this is one of those threads where the poster comes in asking about issue #1, but #2, #3, and #4 are whats wrecking their tank. It's tricky for us to help folks like that cause they just want to hear what number their alk should be, even though that's far from their biggest problem.

FWIW the Ca, Alk, and Mg aren't the only difference between marine salt and reef salt. It varies by brand but you can have variations in organics (I think reef crystals has more than IO, they call it "vitamins" or something), and more importantly some marine salts are high in borate. That's fine for FOWLR, the intended use of marine salt, but not ok for reef. The borate acts like alk kinda but it isn't, so tests and coral can get screwed up. IDK if this brand uses a lot of borate or not, I don't think IO does.

heritage · 12/19/2015, 07:05 PM

Other than the wall hammer, I honestly don't see a problem with any other coral in the tank at least from those pictures.

How long has the hammer looked like that ?

And I agree you need to re House those tangs and pickup test kits for alk, calcium, magnesium, phosphates and nitrates.

Dkuhlmann · 12/19/2015, 07:05 PM

Yes there is a HUGE difference between Reef salt and Fish salt. The additional "vitamins" you are talking about are things like iodine, stronium, iron and a lot of others as well.

So Pete, My advice still stands on changing out the salts so he at least has better water nutrition for his corals and in the long run if he doesn't get many he won't have to dose anything. The additional trace elements are a huge benefit for the OP that are in the Reef blend salt mix.

As of now I don't yet need to dose and it's because I'm using Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. I use to use plain IO and it was getting to the point of having to do something. A buddy gave me a bag of IO RC and I was sold with the first bag.

I'm about at the point to have to start dosing or doing my water changes every week. I'm not sure I will get everything I need to do an automated dosing but I'm collecting what I'll need if I decide to dose my tank. I've got quite a few LPS and a few SPS in addition to my fish, leathers and a couple of anemones. So that in addition to all of the coralline I've got in my tank it will either need the additional wc's with Reef Crystals or that I begin to dose and add Trace Elements.

CStrickland · 12/19/2015, 08:08 PM

Well, the "vitamins" I was talking about are organic matter that leaves a sludge in the mixing container, and can result in ammonia in freshly mixed sw. But trace elements are important too. IDK if those differ between reef and marine salt, seems logical it would.

Fishfreak_MA · 12/20/2015, 04:07 AM

I have a feeling your nitrates and phosphates might be quite high. That gravel in there is a detrius trap. In freshwater it's not as bad because your not keeping corals and invertebrates. In a reef tank it would really need to be vacuumed weekly and to do a through job it would require more than the entire 29 gallons of water being syphoned would allow. On my old 90 gallon freshwater tank it would take about 65 gallons to get even a remotely decent amount of detrius out of my rock bed. I'd recommend going bare bottomed or with a sand bed eventually. Your also going to have to find a new home for that yellow and naso tang fairly soon. At full size they'll barely be able to turn around without hitting each other.

I highly recommend you take the above advice and purchase the test kits. If you don't have the money I have a hunch that even the API reef master at 25 dollars will give you a basic idea of the parameters because they'll be high enough to not need to worry about low level testing. Good luck. I hope you are able to get your tank back in line.

12/19/2015, 06:17 PM	#26
Member No. 1 Ver. 2.1 Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Rehoboth, MA Posts: 1,803	I said nothing about the getting kits and testing. I'm all for it. I'm not debating salts here either. But you told the OP to change salts and my point is he doesn't have to. The salt he is using is fine. Bottom line, to the OP,mbefore you make any changes, get your water tested for ca, mg, and alk. __________________ Pete "I never make mistakes... I thought I did once, but I was wrong" Current Tank Info: In the process - http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2661614

12/19/2015, 06:25 PM	#27
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	I think the larger problem is OP thought they were using a reef salt, when it was a marine salt. They have some reading to do. Also that substrate. Also the tangs. Also that nem. It's more like a general lack of research than one particular thing. When asked for parameters they say its fine, but then it turns out they don't have a number of important tests. I think this is one of those threads where the poster comes in asking about issue #1, but #2, #3, and #4 are whats wrecking their tank. It's tricky for us to help folks like that cause they just want to hear what number their alk should be, even though that's far from their biggest problem. FWIW the Ca, Alk, and Mg aren't the only difference between marine salt and reef salt. It varies by brand but you can have variations in organics (I think reef crystals has more than IO, they call it "vitamins" or something), and more importantly some marine salts are high in borate. That's fine for FOWLR, the intended use of marine salt, but not ok for reef. The borate acts like alk kinda but it isn't, so tests and coral can get screwed up. IDK if this brand uses a lot of borate or not, I don't think IO does. __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

12/19/2015, 07:05 PM	#29
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	Yes there is a HUGE difference between Reef salt and Fish salt. The additional "vitamins" you are talking about are things like iodine, stronium, iron and a lot of others as well. So Pete, My advice still stands on changing out the salts so he at least has better water nutrition for his corals and in the long run if he doesn't get many he won't have to dose anything. The additional trace elements are a huge benefit for the OP that are in the Reef blend salt mix. As of now I don't yet need to dose and it's because I'm using Instant Ocean Reef Crystals. I use to use plain IO and it was getting to the point of having to do something. A buddy gave me a bag of IO RC and I was sold with the first bag. I'm about at the point to have to start dosing or doing my water changes every week. I'm not sure I will get everything I need to do an automated dosing but I'm collecting what I'll need if I decide to dose my tank. I've got quite a few LPS and a few SPS in addition to my fish, leathers and a couple of anemones. So that in addition to all of the coralline I've got in my tank it will either need the additional wc's with Reef Crystals or that I begin to dose and add Trace Elements. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

12/19/2015, 08:08 PM	#30
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Well, the "vitamins" I was talking about are organic matter that leaves a sludge in the mixing container, and can result in ammonia in freshly mixed sw. But trace elements are important too. IDK if those differ between reef and marine salt, seems logical it would. __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

12/19/2015, 07:05 PM	#28
heritage Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: PHILLY Posts: 561	Other than the wall hammer, I honestly don't see a problem with any other coral in the tank at least from those pictures. How long has the hammer looked like that ? And I agree you need to re House those tangs and pickup test kits for alk, calcium, magnesium, phosphates and nitrates.

12/20/2015, 04:07 AM	#31
Fishfreak_MA Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2015 Location: The Berkshires, MA Posts: 53	I have a feeling your nitrates and phosphates might be quite high. That gravel in there is a detrius trap. In freshwater it's not as bad because your not keeping corals and invertebrates. In a reef tank it would really need to be vacuumed weekly and to do a through job it would require more than the entire 29 gallons of water being syphoned would allow. On my old 90 gallon freshwater tank it would take about 65 gallons to get even a remotely decent amount of detrius out of my rock bed. I'd recommend going bare bottomed or with a sand bed eventually. Your also going to have to find a new home for that yellow and naso tang fairly soon. At full size they'll barely be able to turn around without hitting each other. I highly recommend you take the above advice and purchase the test kits. If you don't have the money I have a hunch that even the API reef master at 25 dollars will give you a basic idea of the parameters because they'll be high enough to not need to worry about low level testing. Good luck. I hope you are able to get your tank back in line.