Fishes are scratching

ReefFresh · 12/20/2015, 04:16 AM

Hi All
About a one and a half months ago my Palette surgeonfish began scratching against the rock and sand. When I asked some people answered that this is usual for this type of fish. Yesterday I saw two more fishes scratching themselves.
They are no scratching all the times, its usually every 10 minutes or so. All my fishes are energetic, eating and looks well without any white dotes on them - and that is whats weird.
Yesterday I replaced 15% of the water in the tank.
The tank is marine aquarium, Amonia and Nitrit are at 0, Nitrate is around 25. At this point I know for a fact that I have parasites in my aquarium. My question is whether I should start using cooper or should I install UV and to let them recover them selfs.

Thanks Much
Ido

gone fishin · 12/20/2015, 07:53 AM

I will respond under the impression the fishes were not QT or treated with anything previously. Just a couple thoughts with the info given.

Even though you do not see spots ich likes to infest the gills of the fishes.

Flukes would be another possibility IMO.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659

The link has a diagnosis section that may be able to help narrow down if there is a parasite or illness. Are there any other symptoms besides scratching and the timeline of when the fishes were added.

I would not treat for anything until your reasonably sure what your dealing with. Some treatments can be pretty harsh on fish and may not do anything for the problem.

If it is an illness you should prepare yourself to remove the fish to a QT/HT for treatment. Most medications cannot be used in the DT. Good luck just my 2 cents

ReefFresh · 12/20/2015, 08:12 AM

Thanks for the replay.
The fishes were not in quarantine and I will defiantly buy one in the near future.
What are your thoughts on UV ?

gone fishin · 12/20/2015, 08:16 AM

UV always seem to bring around a debate. My personal thoughts are they are great water clarifiers. I believe they do very little for treatment and prevention of ich or other illnesses.

CStrickland · 12/20/2015, 08:25 AM

Good advice.
To be clear, do you have any coral? A lot of the difficulty with medication is that coral are too sensitive to it. For example, copper soaks into the rocks, and makes them unusable in a coral tank permanently. Other kinds kill the worms and bacteria in the tank which is bad for fish too, but sometimes can be managed.

I agree on the uv. They work by slowly sterilizing a small part of the water. This is like if my husband gets sick I can sterilize the kitchen in our house for good measure but since we share a bed I will probably catch the disease anyway. It only takes one parasite to infect, they reproduce in the body.

Dkuhlmann · 12/20/2015, 08:41 AM

I keep garlic extract on hand for a couple of reasons but fish occasionally scratching is one of them. It does help as I have used this for years. You can also follow the advice above. Fish usually are scratching due to parasites of one form or another. Note: don't use garlic long term. It is dosed at one drop per 10 gallons daily for up to 5 days is what I do. I usually see the scratching in one to two days.

ReefFresh · 12/21/2015, 12:43 AM

Hi Guys, thanks for your comments.
I will go through the 'Fish Parasites' thread and try to identify my symptoms.
About Garlic, it may be the case! In the last couple of weeks I fed my fishes with garlic once a day. Its actually a liquid garlic which I produced from a fresh crushed garlic (filtered). I socked the dry food in two spoons of liquid garlic and after five minutes pour all in the tank. Do you think the garlic may caused them to ich?

As for the question above, my tank is marine tank with no corals or any invertebrates.
Although I planned to purchase and install UV next month, I believe that my next purchase will be quarantine.

shifty51008 · 12/21/2015, 01:39 AM

The garlic wont cause ich, it is more to be used to entice fish to eat. Even if fish had an alrgic reaction to the garlic (which ive never seen) i doubt all the fish would have the same reaction.

Good choice on the qt as your next buy.

homer1475 · 12/21/2015, 06:29 AM

Yes skip the UV and buy a QT.

And garlic can be harmful to fish long term. While its great to entice new fish, or hard to feed fish, to eat, it can and will cause long term liver problems.

Dkuhlmann · 12/21/2015, 06:41 AM

The garlic can stop the itching and please note that I did say Short term for up to 5 days.

ReefFresh · 12/21/2015, 07:04 AM

I didn't know that the garlic's first goal is to entice fishes to eat! I thought it was for improving their immune system...
Since the weekend (when I noticed that several fished ich) I can see that the ich were reduced dramatically (I dont believe that I am in the second stage of the cycle were the parasite leave the fish to become 'protomont') - so I think its good news.

Regarding the UV, I will take your recommendation and will buy the QT. By the way, how do you keep your water crystal clear ? My water has very small particles flying around and that very annoying! I am replacing the perlon once a week.

Thanks!

ReefFresh · 12/21/2015, 01:42 PM

Upp

12/20/2015, 04:16 AM	#1
ReefFresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 61	Fishes are scratching Hi All About a one and a half months ago my Palette surgeonfish began scratching against the rock and sand. When I asked some people answered that this is usual for this type of fish. Yesterday I saw two more fishes scratching themselves. They are no scratching all the times, its usually every 10 minutes or so. All my fishes are energetic, eating and looks well without any white dotes on them - and that is whats weird. Yesterday I replaced 15% of the water in the tank. The tank is marine aquarium, Amonia and Nitrit are at 0, Nitrate is around 25. At this point I know for a fact that I have parasites in my aquarium. My question is whether I should start using cooper or should I install UV and to let them recover them selfs. Thanks Much Ido

12/20/2015, 07:53 AM	#2
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	I will respond under the impression the fishes were not QT or treated with anything previously. Just a couple thoughts with the info given. Even though you do not see spots ich likes to infest the gills of the fishes. Flukes would be another possibility IMO. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2389659 The link has a diagnosis section that may be able to help narrow down if there is a parasite or illness. Are there any other symptoms besides scratching and the timeline of when the fishes were added. I would not treat for anything until your reasonably sure what your dealing with. Some treatments can be pretty harsh on fish and may not do anything for the problem. If it is an illness you should prepare yourself to remove the fish to a QT/HT for treatment. Most medications cannot be used in the DT. Good luck just my 2 cents __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

12/20/2015, 08:16 AM	#4
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	UV always seem to bring around a debate. My personal thoughts are they are great water clarifiers. I believe they do very little for treatment and prevention of ich or other illnesses. __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

12/20/2015, 08:25 AM	#5
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	Good advice. To be clear, do you have any coral? A lot of the difficulty with medication is that coral are too sensitive to it. For example, copper soaks into the rocks, and makes them unusable in a coral tank permanently. Other kinds kill the worms and bacteria in the tank which is bad for fish too, but sometimes can be managed. I agree on the uv. They work by slowly sterilizing a small part of the water. This is like if my husband gets sick I can sterilize the kitchen in our house for good measure but since we share a bed I will probably catch the disease anyway. It only takes one parasite to infect, they reproduce in the body. __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

12/20/2015, 08:41 AM	#6
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	I keep garlic extract on hand for a couple of reasons but fish occasionally scratching is one of them. It does help as I have used this for years. You can also follow the advice above. Fish usually are scratching due to parasites of one form or another. Note: don't use garlic long term. It is dosed at one drop per 10 gallons daily for up to 5 days is what I do. I usually see the scratching in one to two days. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

12/20/2015, 08:12 AM	#3
ReefFresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 61	Thanks for the replay. The fishes were not in quarantine and I will defiantly buy one in the near future. What are your thoughts on UV ?

12/21/2015, 12:43 AM	#7
ReefFresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 61	Hi Guys, thanks for your comments. I will go through the 'Fish Parasites' thread and try to identify my symptoms. About Garlic, it may be the case! In the last couple of weeks I fed my fishes with garlic once a day. Its actually a liquid garlic which I produced from a fresh crushed garlic (filtered). I socked the dry food in two spoons of liquid garlic and after five minutes pour all in the tank. Do you think the garlic may caused them to ich? As for the question above, my tank is marine tank with no corals or any invertebrates. Although I planned to purchase and install UV next month, I believe that my next purchase will be quarantine.

12/21/2015, 01:39 AM	#8
shifty51008 12-5 Chiefs record Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 10,134	The garlic wont cause ich, it is more to be used to entice fish to eat. Even if fish had an alrgic reaction to the garlic (which ive never seen) i doubt all the fish would have the same reaction. Good choice on the qt as your next buy. __________________ 75 gal. mixed DT, 100 gal. sump, 50 gal. fuge, Clownfish breeder

12/21/2015, 06:29 AM	#9
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Yes skip the UV and buy a QT. And garlic can be harmful to fish long term. While its great to entice new fish, or hard to feed fish, to eat, it can and will cause long term liver problems. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

12/21/2015, 06:41 AM	#10
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	The garlic can stop the itching and please note that I did say Short term for up to 5 days. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

12/21/2015, 07:04 AM	#11
ReefFresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 61	I didn't know that the garlic's first goal is to entice fishes to eat! I thought it was for improving their immune system... Since the weekend (when I noticed that several fished ich) I can see that the ich were reduced dramatically (I dont believe that I am in the second stage of the cycle were the parasite leave the fish to become 'protomont') - so I think its good news. Regarding the UV, I will take your recommendation and will buy the QT. By the way, how do you keep your water crystal clear ? My water has very small particles flying around and that very annoying! I am replacing the perlon once a week. Thanks!

12/21/2015, 01:42 PM	#12
ReefFresh Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 61	Upp