Yet another Cycling/Dry rock question

MrsReefK · 01/08/2016, 06:42 PM

Hey all,

Jeremy and I (Stace) need your help. We have a build thread where I asked similar questions, but we're looking for some feedback quickly as we're starting to work on the aquascaping tonight.

We have 'dry rock' that was previously live rock but since dried out. We soaked it for a few weeks to try and get some dead particles off. Since then, I pulled it back out of the water and it's dried out again.

We have:

Dry Rock (Previous LR)

100% ocean direct sand (Live sand)

40 lbs LR from our current tank to seed with

Questions:

1. On our thread it was mentioned that hopefully we're not using ALL live sand because it will be full of a lot of sediments. Truth is we already purchased it, what's the harm in using it rather than going and buying dry sand?

2. Can we add the rocks and sand at the same time? Or do we need to 'cure' the rocks for a bit before adding the sand?

3. Can I fill the tank with fresh RO water, and mix salt in it as it fills? Being 290g, our R/O unit is going to take awhile to fill, so rock and sand will be exposed to fresh RO water. If not, what do you suggest for mixing 290 gallons?

Thanks guys! My heads spinning with this. It's not our first tank, but things have changed since the years we had our last tank. We are open to all opinions! Build thread is at http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...2533793&page=7

thegrun · 01/08/2016, 11:18 PM

1. You can use the live sand, but I would still try to rinse out some of the sediment with saltwater before you place the sand in your tank.
2. You can add the sand and the rock at the same time (rocks first so they sit on the bottom of the tank, then add the sand) but you are likely going to have a cycle unless you cycle the old rock first in a separate container.
3. You can add the water first, but it is important that you add the salt and mix it well before you place ant sand or rock in the tank. If you add rock and sand before the salt you will get salt crystals that fall into the nooks and crannies and they could take several days or longer to dissolve, raising your salinity level. Also if you expose your live rock of live sand to fresh water, particularly RO/DI water it will kill almost everything on the rocks and in the sand.

MrsReefK · 01/09/2016, 06:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

1. You can use the live sand, but I would still try to rinse out some of the sediment with saltwater before you place the sand in your tank.
2. You can add the sand and the rock at the same time (rocks first so they sit on the bottom of the tank, then add the sand) but you are likely going to have a cycle unless you cycle the old rock first in a separate container.
3. You can add the water first, but it is important that you add the salt and mix it well before you place ant sand or rock in the tank. If you add rock and sand before the salt you will get salt crystals that fall into the nooks and crannies and they could take several days or longer to dissolve, raising your salinity level. Also if you expose your live rock of live sand to fresh water, particularly RO/DI water it will kill almost everything on the rocks and in the sand.

Thank you for your response. Makes complete sense with mixing the salt first.

With ocean direct sand it's not supposed to be rinsed I thought. Isn't rinsing this type of sand stripping away the good and bad? I don't want long term problems, so I'm all ears on this. Can you explain what rinsing does for the sand?

CStrickland · 01/09/2016, 09:49 AM

The live sand has bacteria added to it, similar to the bottled bacteria some people add to the water when they set up their tank. It is meant to jumpstart the bacteria population so the cycle goes quicker. People disagree about how effective that is, and even if it does work, whether it's a good idea. Like a shortcut.

So when you use "live sand" you are adding: the sand, the live bacteria, the dead bacteria, the poop from the bacteria, the food they were packed with, and preservatives that kept them alive in the bag; as well as all the dust that the sand came with or created by shifting around in the bag and grinding itself up. That can be messy. Usually there is a chemical packet with the sand to add and reduce the dust, idk how that works. If you rinse it off you don't have all those nutrients, or the dust, but you lose the preserved bacteria that you paid extra for. Hence, one bag of live to "seed" the bacteria and the rest rinsed clean.

MrsReefK · 01/09/2016, 09:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CStrickland

The live sand has bacteria added to it, similar to the bottled bacteria some people add to the water when they set up their tank. It is meant to jumpstart the bacteria population so the cycle goes quicker. People disagree about how effective that is, and even if it does work, whether it's a good idea. Like a shortcut.

So when you use "live sand" you are adding: the sand, the live bacteria, the dead bacteria, the poop from the bacteria, the food they were packed with, and preservatives that kept them alive in the bag; as well as all the dust that the sand came with or created by shifting around in the bag and grinding itself up. That can be messy. Usually there is a chemical packet with the sand to add and reduce the dust, idk how that works. If you rinse it off you don't have all those nutrients, or the dust, but you lose the preserved bacteria that you paid extra for. Hence, one bag of live to "seed" the bacteria and the rest rinsed clean.

Is there long term ill effects from using all live? Or is it short term "messy" that drives this? I don't really mind how long it takes it to clear up, tank will be cycling for awhile, it can be cloudy for a few days.

CStrickland · 01/09/2016, 10:07 AM

No. But the dust can hang around for a long time, like a week to clear but then still every time the sand is disturbed it makes another cloud. It's just a pain to have you pumps and filters all clogged up

MrsReefK · 01/09/2016, 10:09 AM

Got it. Do the clouds last the lifetime of the sand, or wither with time? I would assume they would dwindle over time? Kills me to remove that much good bacteria for a few weeks of cloudiness.

thegrun · 01/09/2016, 10:18 AM

It's highly questionable how much live bacteria is still on the sand. Over time, especially if you use a filter sock or other mechanical filtration the dust will subside if you do not rinse the sand. Of course over a few weeks any bacteria you wash off the sand will naturally repopulate itself as your tank cycles and matures which is why most of us recommend just purchasing dry sand in the first place. If I were like you and had live sand already I would rinse it in saltwater to at least remove the majority of the dust before I placed it in my tank, but not rinsing is a viable option, either way within a month or two the end result will be about the same.

MrsReefK · 01/09/2016, 10:20 AM

Thank you both for the help. It's difficult sometimes with so many opinions, but much easier when fully explained as you two have. Thank you for your help! We are not going to rinse it. It's going to cycle for 1-2 months, might as well save what we can in regards to good bacteria.

thegrun · 01/09/2016, 10:23 AM

Best of luck! Keep us posted with your progress.

MrsReefK · 01/09/2016, 10:24 AM

Thanks! You can follow our progress on our build thread (I don't know how to post the link via tapatalk) it's titled Mr and Mrs 290g in wall build. It's in the large tank section.

01/08/2016, 06:42 PM	#1
MrsReefK Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 981	Yet another Cycling/Dry rock question Hey all, Jeremy and I (Stace) need your help. We have a build thread where I asked similar questions, but we're looking for some feedback quickly as we're starting to work on the aquascaping tonight. We have 'dry rock' that was previously live rock but since dried out. We soaked it for a few weeks to try and get some dead particles off. Since then, I pulled it back out of the water and it's dried out again. We have: Dry Rock (Previous LR) 100% ocean direct sand (Live sand) 40 lbs LR from our current tank to seed with Questions: 1. On our thread it was mentioned that hopefully we're not using ALL live sand because it will be full of a lot of sediments. Truth is we already purchased it, what's the harm in using it rather than going and buying dry sand? 2. Can we add the rocks and sand at the same time? Or do we need to 'cure' the rocks for a bit before adding the sand? 3. Can I fill the tank with fresh RO water, and mix salt in it as it fills? Being 290g, our R/O unit is going to take awhile to fill, so rock and sand will be exposed to fresh RO water. If not, what do you suggest for mixing 290 gallons? Thanks guys! My heads spinning with this. It's not our first tank, but things have changed since the years we had our last tank. We are open to all opinions! Build thread is at http://reefcentral.com/forums/showth...2533793&page=7 Last edited by MrsReefK; 01/08/2016 at 07:15 PM.

01/09/2016, 09:49 AM	#4
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	The live sand has bacteria added to it, similar to the bottled bacteria some people add to the water when they set up their tank. It is meant to jumpstart the bacteria population so the cycle goes quicker. People disagree about how effective that is, and even if it does work, whether it's a good idea. Like a shortcut. So when you use "live sand" you are adding: the sand, the live bacteria, the dead bacteria, the poop from the bacteria, the food they were packed with, and preservatives that kept them alive in the bag; as well as all the dust that the sand came with or created by shifting around in the bag and grinding itself up. That can be messy. Usually there is a chemical packet with the sand to add and reduce the dust, idk how that works. If you rinse it off you don't have all those nutrients, or the dust, but you lose the preserved bacteria that you paid extra for. Hence, one bag of live to "seed" the bacteria and the rest rinsed clean. __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

01/09/2016, 10:07 AM	#6
CStrickland Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Location: New England, U.S. Posts: 4,595	No. But the dust can hang around for a long time, like a week to clear but then still every time the sand is disturbed it makes another cloud. It's just a pain to have you pumps and filters all clogged up __________________ If you're havin tank problems I feel bad for you, son. I got 99 problems but a fish ain't one Current Tank Info: 3/2016 upgrade to 120g. Chalk bass, melanurus, firefish, starry blenny, canary blenny, lyretail anthias, engineer gobys, kole tang. Softies / LPS / NPS. <3 noob4life <3

01/08/2016, 11:18 PM	#2
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	1. You can use the live sand, but I would still try to rinse out some of the sediment with saltwater before you place the sand in your tank. 2. You can add the sand and the rock at the same time (rocks first so they sit on the bottom of the tank, then add the sand) but you are likely going to have a cycle unless you cycle the old rock first in a separate container. 3. You can add the water first, but it is important that you add the salt and mix it well before you place ant sand or rock in the tank. If you add rock and sand before the salt you will get salt crystals that fall into the nooks and crannies and they could take several days or longer to dissolve, raising your salinity level. Also if you expose your live rock of live sand to fresh water, particularly RO/DI water it will kill almost everything on the rocks and in the sand.

01/09/2016, 10:09 AM	#7
MrsReefK Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 981	Got it. Do the clouds last the lifetime of the sand, or wither with time? I would assume they would dwindle over time? Kills me to remove that much good bacteria for a few weeks of cloudiness.

01/09/2016, 10:18 AM	#8
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	It's highly questionable how much live bacteria is still on the sand. Over time, especially if you use a filter sock or other mechanical filtration the dust will subside if you do not rinse the sand. Of course over a few weeks any bacteria you wash off the sand will naturally repopulate itself as your tank cycles and matures which is why most of us recommend just purchasing dry sand in the first place. If I were like you and had live sand already I would rinse it in saltwater to at least remove the majority of the dust before I placed it in my tank, but not rinsing is a viable option, either way within a month or two the end result will be about the same.

01/09/2016, 10:20 AM	#9
MrsReefK Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 981	Thank you both for the help. It's difficult sometimes with so many opinions, but much easier when fully explained as you two have. Thank you for your help! We are not going to rinse it. It's going to cycle for 1-2 months, might as well save what we can in regards to good bacteria.

01/09/2016, 10:23 AM	#10
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Best of luck! Keep us posted with your progress.

01/09/2016, 10:24 AM	#11
MrsReefK Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 981	Thanks! You can follow our progress on our build thread (I don't know how to post the link via tapatalk) it's titled Mr and Mrs 290g in wall build. It's in the large tank section.