RED SEA NO3:PO4-X - which chamber in sump?

[potatocouch]

I just bought NO3:PO4-X after LFS suggestion ... water was tested twice (me and LFS) and both return with very high ppm reading.

It is advised in the manual to drop the dosage in sump.

My question: which chamber in the sump?

I have 4 chambers:

1. Overflow
2. Protein Skimmer
3. Live Rocks
4. Return Pump

Can you kindly advise which chamber should I dose?

PS: The one with highest flow is overflow chamber, but then this chamber is before protein skimmer ... would the nopox be skimmed before it even goes larger water column?

[bertoni]

I don't think acetic acid and alcohol are skimmable, so I don't think it matters where you dose the product.

[icebrg5]

When i dosed No3Po4x on my old tank i always put it in the same section as the skimmer but then after a few months switched to putting it in with the return pump and i noticed a bigger drop in nitrates from doing it into the return section then the skimmer section.

[Go.Fish]

Originally Posted by bertoni

I don't think acetic acid and alcohol are skimmable, so I don't think it matters where you dose the product.

Hint hint? Is this stuff basically vodka/vinegar?

[bertoni]

Yes, it's a mixture of ethanol and vinegar, with a bit of methanol. There's a DIY recipe I can look up, if you're interested.

[droog]

Dose in the return section (or the DT). It doesn't matter much..

-droog

[sticky polyps]

I dose in either return chamber or display. I do not dose anything before or near the skimmer because I don't want a concentration of solution to affect skimming efficiency.

[jason2459]

Originally Posted by Vancity

Hint hint? Is this stuff basically vodka/vinegar?

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...408985&page=13

[oseymour]

Dose it anywhere, we always assume that the skimmer is cleaning all the water that is passing through the chamber.

[tmz]

I dose vodka an vinegar to a high flow drain entry area of the sump before the skimmer and return pump . Ethanol and acetic acid are not easily skimmed if at all ; both are miscible and hydrophillic( they like water and quickly disperse in it). Skimming is most effective on ampipathic compunds,like proteins for example , which are repelled by water on one end and held by it on the other. They also pull out some hydrophobic compounds, those repelled by water and push out some precipitants and organic materials

[garyinco]

My sump configuration sounds like yours. I dose mine in the live rock/fuge section right before it runs into the return pump section. I have noticed a little "burn" on the live rock below the dosing area. I attribute that more to the alk/calc dosing I do in the same exact area.

NoPox will take a long time to bring down hi phosphate. If you have any GFO laying around I'd fire that up too just to initially get it down in balance with any nitrates.

[ReefCowboy]

I have been using this product for about 3 months now, dropped my nitrate from 25 to 0.02 in 2 weeks. I would first MAKE SURE your dosing pump is accurate. This product must be carefully dosed, and an overdose by 1ml can cause bacterial blooms and make you very unhappy.
I would dose it on the chamber that has live rock. Good luck

[jason2459]

I would not think an extra 1ml of this would cause a bacterial bloom considering it's quite a bit of vinegar in it. Straight vodka I could potentially see that.

I don't know my dosing pumps exact rate. Knowing what it is would be wise. But if you start out small and slowly ramp up while monitoring parameters and conditions it can be fairly safe not knowing the exact precision. I believe more important is the dosers consistency. But again knowing it's true rate is a good thing.

[ReefCowboy]

When I was researching about this product, while reading posts from Kevin, the Red Sea rep, I came across the idea of diluting NoPox with RO water in order to make it more accurate when being used with a doser. Depending on the tank size, 2, 3ml's can be tough to accurately dose.

I've also read of many people having biological problems with the misdosings. They recommend a maximum dose of 3mls per 25 gal depending on what the initial NO3 readings. I believe the main reason some people have blooms with this stuff or do not see any help from it is because they do not have accurate readings before they start it, which is KEY. It has acetic acid in its composition, but by the smell of it and the much lower dosage needed recommended than the vinegar method, I bet it also contains higher carbon concentration(similar to vodka), which entails accurate dosing.

[jason2459]

We know with fairly good accuracy the main components and their ratios. Ethanol and Acetic Acid with a touch of methanol as a denaturing agent for the Ethanol to avoid taxes and other alcohol transport and selling issues. There's also another even smaller trace of something most likely isopropanol.

Originally Posted by jason2459

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...408985&page=13

In that thread is a handy excel sheet that breaks down what to mix together in this post
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...&postcount=233

I would not suggest diluting with water in the chance it could cause bacterial growth in the storage container. I also prefer and have starting using TMZ's ratio of slightly more vinegar and slightly less vodka. 690ml vinegar to 310ml vodka and no water dilution.

You can't go by smell. That mix with higher vinegar content still smells strongly of alcohol.

[ReefCowboy]

I've been dosing by hand since I've read bubbles tend to form on the tips(ends) of tubbing where the solution is exposed to air? Anyone can confirm this?

[MikeyAl]

I've had best results dosing in return.

[bertoni]

I would be careful about diluting the product. At some point, bacteria will be able to grow in the solution and consume the carbon.

[dieseldaisy]

Originally Posted by bertoni

Yes, it's a mixture of ethanol and vinegar, with a bit of methanol. There's a DIY recipe I can look up, if you're interested.

Im interested in it. is it the same as nopox?

[bertoni]

Here's a link to the thread:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...2408985&page=9

410 ml of 80 proof vodka and 590 ml of distilled white vinegar should be fine.

[jason2459]

really...