How to lower Alkalinity and Calcium?

billyjobs · 03/09/2016, 05:00 AM

What's up you guys I have a high calcium and high alkalinity issue.

Tank is 3 months old. Using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt
165w LED on 24G tank. Moon on at 8am, Day on at 9am, Day off at 7pm, Moon off at 8pm
Protein Skimmer, Canister Filter, Carbon.
Heater set at 76.

Coral:
1. Pulsing Xenias
2. Star Polyps
3. Mushrooms
4. Birdnest
5. Bubble Coral
6. Feather Dust

Fish/Creatures
7. 2 Perculas
8. 1 Spot Tail Blenny
9. Assorted snails

I have a log book I keep everything in, as we all should. Phosphate, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate are all 0. Everything has been amazing until this point.

3/7/16 5:40PM: pH was at 7.8, salinity 1.026, 560ca, 14dkh, 1320mg, Temp 77.7 F

3/7/16 11:00PM: Added Sea Chem Marine buffer, I've only added this at night about once a week in hopes of slightly increasing pH to 8.3 over time, but pH has always been around 7.8 - 8.0

3/8/16 11:15AM: Xenias were shriveled up and the Bubble Coral was extended, but not beautifully extended as usual as well as the large feather.

3/8/16 2:00PM: Did a 20% water change.

3/9/16 12:00AM: pH was at 8.3, salinity 1.026, 580ca, 20dkh, 1320mg, Temp 77.7 F

I'm thinking that 20dkh is really messing things up, have tested with multiple kits multiple times, getting same reading. 8.3pH at night seems to be high, I was hoping to get 8.0 night - 8.3 day. I was already not happy that it was 14 dkh, but now it's gotten worse. My calcium keeps increasing for some reason, lowest I ever got it to was 500, that 560 now is bothering as well. I'm not dosing any calcium or magnesium at all.

What can I possibly do to lower the alkalinity and calcium? and what is possibly the culprit that could have caused this? Hope I can save these Xenias and the rest of the tank in the morning before it gets worse.

Thanks so much for anyone's help.

Dkuhlmann · 03/09/2016, 05:53 AM

That PH buffer is a bad thing and you really don't need to worry about your PH. I never test for PH, get your Kh under control and the PH will take care of itself.

As for the Ca and Kh being high what does your salt read before you do a WC? I would also do a larger WC every 3 days to get the numbers under control. I'd do a 25%-30% total volume WC every 3 days for a week then retest. I do believe that PH buffer is driving up your numbers.

So test your WC mix and then do the series of WC's and that should get you back under control but don't use that PH buffer anymore at all.

billdogg · 03/09/2016, 06:47 AM

pretty much what he said. Chasing a pH number is a futile exercise in a marine tank that will only lead to overdosing supplements that you don't really need (especially at this point with your current corals)

Test your freshly made up water change water and see what the numbers are there. At this point, using a salt made for a reef tank may be working against you - it's numbers will already be fairly high. Regardless, a few large water changes will help to bring the numbers in line, then just wait it out and let them go down on their own. You could also use a salt like regular instant ocean that tends to have lower numbers in an effort to bring things down a bit quicker.

pyithar · 03/09/2016, 07:42 AM

what they said ^. are you using ro/di water btw?

billyjobs · 03/09/2016, 08:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyithar

what they said ^. are you using ro/di water btw?

Yup using RO/DI water.

Sweet thanks you guys. I'll be checking the water before I put it in and do a water change throughout the week.

Damn buffer. Yea I won't be using it anymore.

thegrun · 03/09/2016, 09:33 AM

In addition to stop using buffer which only increases your alkalinity, you may want to switch salt mixes. Red Sea Pro is designed for reef tanks with a high calcium/alkalinity demand. Since you only have one coral with a stony skeleton, the Red Sea Pro is adding too much alkalinity and calcium to your system when you make water changes, driving both their concentrations too high for your tank. I would switch to either the regular Red Sea salt of something like Instant Ocean that is lower in calcium and alkalinity. If you continue to let your calcium stay as high as it is you are going to have to clean your pump impellers much more frequently due to calcium deposits and your sand is likely to start clumping up into a solid block.

billyjobs · 03/09/2016, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrun

In addition to stop using buffer which only increases your alkalinity, you may want to switch salt mixes. Red Sea Pro is designed for reef tanks with a high calcium/alkalinity demand. Since you only have one coral with a stony skeleton, the Red Sea Pro is adding too much alkalinity and calcium to your system when you make water changes, driving both their concentrations too high for your tank. I would switch to either the regular Red Sea salt of something like Instant Ocean that is lower in calcium and alkalinity. If you continue to let your calcium stay as high as it is you are going to have to clean your pump impellers much more frequently due to calcium deposits and your sand is likely to start clumping up into a solid block.

Alright everyone I've tested my Red Sea Coral Pro salt mix, I got a reading of 400ca, 12dkh

I've done a 40% water change and my reading are now.

Before:
580ca, 1350mg, 1.025, and 20dkh

After:
510ca, 1080mg, 1.025, and 16dkh

I'll probably be performing another 40% water change tonight. Will probably have to dose a bit of mg to get it back up.

My feather is out looking happy, my bubble coral is looking good, the birdnest polyps are out.

The Xenias have yet to return, but I believe they're stable. I think if I can get the alk back under 14dkh things should be back to normal.

f*** the buffer!

Thanks for all your help!

Sk8r · 03/09/2016, 03:20 PM

Do some water changes with a low-magnesium salt and the alk and cal will fall. If mg is under 1200, the fall will be pretty rapid.

billyjobs · 03/10/2016, 03:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

Do some water changes with a low-magnesium salt and the alk and cal will fall. If mg is under 1200, the fall will be pretty rapid.

Nice,

Yes just another update. Changed another 20% today.

3/10/16 1:00AM
500ca, 14dkh, 1320-1400mg, pH 8.1, 1.025

Amazing

Thanks again for everyone's help.

03/09/2016, 05:00 AM	#1
billyjobs Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Los Angeles, CA Posts: 10	How to lower Alkalinity and Calcium? What's up you guys I have a high calcium and high alkalinity issue. Tank is 3 months old. Using Red Sea Coral Pro Salt 165w LED on 24G tank. Moon on at 8am, Day on at 9am, Day off at 7pm, Moon off at 8pm Protein Skimmer, Canister Filter, Carbon. Heater set at 76. Coral: 1. Pulsing Xenias 2. Star Polyps 3. Mushrooms 4. Birdnest 5. Bubble Coral 6. Feather Dust Fish/Creatures 7. 2 Perculas 8. 1 Spot Tail Blenny 9. Assorted snails I have a log book I keep everything in, as we all should. Phosphate, Ammonia, Nitrite, and Nitrate are all 0. Everything has been amazing until this point. 3/7/16 5:40PM: pH was at 7.8, salinity 1.026, 560ca, 14dkh, 1320mg, Temp 77.7 F 3/7/16 11:00PM: Added Sea Chem Marine buffer, I've only added this at night about once a week in hopes of slightly increasing pH to 8.3 over time, but pH has always been around 7.8 - 8.0 3/8/16 11:15AM: Xenias were shriveled up and the Bubble Coral was extended, but not beautifully extended as usual as well as the large feather. 3/8/16 2:00PM: Did a 20% water change. 3/9/16 12:00AM: pH was at 8.3, salinity 1.026, 580ca, 20dkh, 1320mg, Temp 77.7 F I'm thinking that 20dkh is really messing things up, have tested with multiple kits multiple times, getting same reading. 8.3pH at night seems to be high, I was hoping to get 8.0 night - 8.3 day. I was already not happy that it was 14 dkh, but now it's gotten worse. My calcium keeps increasing for some reason, lowest I ever got it to was 500, that 560 now is bothering as well. I'm not dosing any calcium or magnesium at all. What can I possibly do to lower the alkalinity and calcium? and what is possibly the culprit that could have caused this? Hope I can save these Xenias and the rest of the tank in the morning before it gets worse. Thanks so much for anyone's help. Last edited by billyjobs; 03/09/2016 at 05:15 AM.

03/09/2016, 05:53 AM	#2
Dkuhlmann Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: NW Iowa Posts: 8,823	That PH buffer is a bad thing and you really don't need to worry about your PH. I never test for PH, get your Kh under control and the PH will take care of itself. As for the Ca and Kh being high what does your salt read before you do a WC? I would also do a larger WC every 3 days to get the numbers under control. I'd do a 25%-30% total volume WC every 3 days for a week then retest. I do believe that PH buffer is driving up your numbers. So test your WC mix and then do the series of WC's and that should get you back under control but don't use that PH buffer anymore at all. __________________ Previous tanks: 200 gal fowlr 9" Emperor Angel and many different butterfly fish 4" maroon clown and several other fish, 50 gal sump, 40 gal mixed reef/fish mostly softies and LPS. Current Tank Info: 40b 750 gph 45 lbs lr, 2"-3" sand, 165w full spectrum dimable LED, 20 gal sump/refugium 30 lbs lr, Bak Pak 2 skimmer, 4" sock temp 79-80, sg 1.026, NH3 0, NO2 0, NO3 <10, ph 8.2, calc 400, mag 1300

03/09/2016, 06:47 AM	#3
billdogg Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Grove City, Ohio Posts: 10,806	pretty much what he said. Chasing a pH number is a futile exercise in a marine tank that will only lead to overdosing supplements that you don't really need (especially at this point with your current corals) Test your freshly made up water change water and see what the numbers are there. At this point, using a salt made for a reef tank may be working against you - it's numbers will already be fairly high. Regardless, a few large water changes will help to bring the numbers in line, then just wait it out and let them go down on their own. You could also use a salt like regular instant ocean that tends to have lower numbers in an effort to bring things down a bit quicker. __________________ I'll try to be nice if you try to be smarter! I can't help that I grow older, but you can't make me grow up! Current Tank Info: 120 mixed reef with 40b sump, RO 150 skimmer, AI Sol Blue x 2, and a 60g Frag Tank with 100g rubbermaid sump. 2 x Kessil A360w lights, BM curve 5 skimmer

03/09/2016, 07:42 AM	#4
pyithar Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2013 Location: yangon,burma(myanmar) Posts: 1,786	what they said ^. are you using ro/di water btw? __________________ take it easy, pyithar Current Tank Info: 150G display, 50G sump, mixed reef

03/09/2016, 03:20 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Do some water changes with a low-magnesium salt and the alk and cal will fall. If mg is under 1200, the fall will be pretty rapid. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/09/2016, 09:33 AM	#6
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	In addition to stop using buffer which only increases your alkalinity, you may want to switch salt mixes. Red Sea Pro is designed for reef tanks with a high calcium/alkalinity demand. Since you only have one coral with a stony skeleton, the Red Sea Pro is adding too much alkalinity and calcium to your system when you make water changes, driving both their concentrations too high for your tank. I would switch to either the regular Red Sea salt of something like Instant Ocean that is lower in calcium and alkalinity. If you continue to let your calcium stay as high as it is you are going to have to clean your pump impellers much more frequently due to calcium deposits and your sand is likely to start clumping up into a solid block.