High Phosphates in A Cycling Aquarium

brandonb8 · 12/28/2008, 05:54 PM

Hello.

Sorry if this has been posted before, but I did a google search and found no real answers and the search function seems down at the moment. I am having an issues with high phosphates in my 3 day old tank. I bought a kit just to see where I was at currently and was shocked to see my phosphates over 2.0. I am doing a live rock cycle and have had an ammonia spike and my nitrites are starting to climb (.6ppm). Nitrates are good but my phospates are high. I checked my water source and it was .5ppm. Is it normal to have high phosphates as the live rock die off occurs. Will it reduce itself as the tank completes the cycle. Thanks for the help.

Brandon

MrsHaggis · 12/28/2008, 06:20 PM

Hey Brandon,

I'm a total newbie myself but I have read that having an ammonia, nitrite, phosphate spike during the cycle can be normal.

Of course, I'd like someone with a bit more experience than me (shouldn't be too difficult) to confirm this.

Also, are you using RO/DI water? I tested my tap water and was horrified at what was in there (super high in nitrates for instance). You should be able to buy RO/DI water from your LFS or buy a unit to make your own (they vary in price - I just got one for about 150 USD and it has made a huge difference to my water quality).

Good Luck!!

James77 · 12/28/2008, 06:32 PM

What is your water source-tap water? Are you using RO/DI water?

brandonb8 · 12/28/2008, 06:38 PM

James,

I am using tap water, but I ran a test on straight tap water to see if this was the cause (I was hoping it was). The tap turned out to be fine (between 0 and .5). I read that phosphate levels increase with decay and I'm hoping that the die off from my live rock is the reason that the phosphate levels are high. Once it cycles, I will do a 30% change and try to reduce it that way. Was just wondering if this was something to be alarmed about. I am using about 20 lbs of "worm rock" limestone and could not find any literature stating that limestone leeches phosphates. I combined this with 60 lbs of cured fiji rock. I am planning on taking a piece or two the worm rock and putting it in a bucket with tap water and then testing the bucket to see if it is my problem. Thanks in advance for the help though.

harleyreefer · 12/28/2008, 07:38 PM

I am a bit confused here. you say that you tested your tap water? What did you test it for, and what did you test it with? I think perhaps if you tested with a good TDS meter, you might possible reconsider the quality of your tap water.
the Total Disolved solids coming from my tap is around 275 to 310 on average. I dont consider this to be particularly bad for me to live on, or drink, BUT,, there are many things that are in our tap water that is not very good for our marine friends. After RO, my readings go down to about 4, and after DI, the readings are at 0... much better for my tank I believe. I doubt that there is much tap water out there, if any at all, that is suitible for a marine tank of any kind. RODI, or distilled would be the only way to go for a marine tank, and especially a reef tank...IMHO
I see that you have been a registered member for much longer than me, though I have had marine tanks for many years. I always fought battles with algae with tap water myself. Sinse you have been on here this long, I will not go into the RODI thing here, as I am sure you have read it all before. Its just that if I was havin a battle with algae, and was using tap water, that would be the first thing I would try to change.. Good luck on the fight! :-)

brandonb8 · 12/28/2008, 08:23 PM

Harley,

I ran a phosphate test on my tap water and it showed in between 0 and .5. What I was saying was that if it was a tap problem it should have showed up when I tested just the tap water. My tap water is fine (as far as phosphates go) but my tank had a high level of phosphates.

On a side note, I joined the forum in 2004 when I was contemplating a saltwater tank. I decided on a cichlid tank so don't let my membership date fool you. I am extremely new to saltwater and plan on doing ro/di once my tank cycles. I didn't see a need to start my tank with ro/di water just to cycle it.

James77 · 12/28/2008, 08:30 PM

.5 is nowhere near fine for a reef tank. You really want no more than .03-.05 for phosphate. While some of your current phosphate is coming from the cycling rock, there is probably a good amount from your tap water. Having your phosphate test read between 0-.5 is kind of vague. If it is 0 then great, but if it is .5, you will be constantly adding phosphate to your aquarium each time you topoff or water change.

Good RO/Di systems can be had for not much more than 100-120 bucks, and I would consider them mandatory to succesful reefkeeping.

James77 · 12/28/2008, 08:33 PM

On tap water-
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm

On Phosphate-
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Both were pulled from the Reef Chenistry forum under articles:
http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=102605

brandonb8 · 12/28/2008, 08:34 PM

James,

I understand that .5 is not good for my reef tank. I plan on doing FOWLR to start out and then get into corals after a while. A RO/DI unit is on the way and once my tank cycles I will begin topping off with it until my tank is all RO/DI. My issue is that somehow my tank is over 3ppm phosphates and I was trying to pinpoint the cause. My OP was in concern of my elevated phosphate levels in relation to my tap water levels. I appreciate you taking the time to view my post.

Tylt33 · 12/28/2008, 09:52 PM

Hi Brandon,

The most common sources of PO4 seem to be over feeding (decaying food), and the tap water itself. My guess would be that your tap water is supplying part of the PO4, and that the die-off from your live rock is providing the rest.

Watch for a big algae bloom; algae needs PO4 and nitrates to thrive. Sounds like you have the PO4, and that you're almost to the point that your nitrates will start coming into effect. At that point, your PO4 levels should start dropping (as the algae uses them in conjunction with your nitrates). If not, you'll know that something else is going on, and that you must have some other source of them.

And keep in mind, the lower the PO4, the better. I had 1.0 ppm PO4 once, and it just about wrecked my tank.

Just my two cents.

Tylt33 · 12/28/2008, 09:56 PM

OH. Keep in mind (as far as I know, this is correct), that while your water is evaporating, the PO4 will remain, causing your levels to rise (less water, same amount of PO4).

Imagine if you had a soda and only the water evaporated out of it; you'd still have all the sugar left. Then when you topped off with more soda, you'd have more sugar than you began with. Could be part of it. You'll need to do water changes; simply topping off with RO/DI won't get the nasties out.

And pray your water doesn't have copper in it! If you have an old house and copper pipes anywhere, you could poison your liverock and future inhabitants.

bangaicardinal · 04/15/2016, 06:08 PM

I know this is an old thread but for anyone reading it now,
I just finished a cycle in a 125g reef tank
I used RO/DI water (0ppm). Halfway through my cycle my PO4 was 2ppm, nitrites were 5ppm, Nitrates close to 0
A week later I tested and my PO4 was 2ppm, nitrites were 0ppm, and Nitrates were 20ppm, A week later my PO4 seems to have stabalized at 1ppm, my nitrites 0ppm, and Nitrates 40ppm respectively

I just completed a 30% water change, and now my PO4 is down to 0.25ppm (it looks like--could be 0.5ppm, hard to tell with these API test kits)

I think the only way to really bring your PO4 down quickly after cycle is water changes
You could get a reactor and blah blah but this is the cheapest / quickest way

12/28/2008, 05:54 PM	#1
brandonb8 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: St. Charles Posts: 390	High Phosphates in A Cycling Aquarium Hello. Sorry if this has been posted before, but I did a google search and found no real answers and the search function seems down at the moment. I am having an issues with high phosphates in my 3 day old tank. I bought a kit just to see where I was at currently and was shocked to see my phosphates over 2.0. I am doing a live rock cycle and have had an ammonia spike and my nitrites are starting to climb (.6ppm). Nitrates are good but my phospates are high. I checked my water source and it was .5ppm. Is it normal to have high phosphates as the live rock die off occurs. Will it reduce itself as the tank completes the cycle. Thanks for the help. Brandon

12/28/2008, 06:20 PM	#2
MrsHaggis Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: St Louis, France Posts: 675	Hey Brandon, I'm a total newbie myself but I have read that having an ammonia, nitrite, phosphate spike during the cycle can be normal. Of course, I'd like someone with a bit more experience than me (shouldn't be too difficult) to confirm this. Also, are you using RO/DI water? I tested my tap water and was horrified at what was in there (super high in nitrates for instance). You should be able to buy RO/DI water from your LFS or buy a unit to make your own (they vary in price - I just got one for about 150 USD and it has made a huge difference to my water quality). Good Luck!! __________________ Nothing scarier than a clown!! ----------------------------- 1 ClownFish 1 SixLine Wrasse 1 Foxface Rabbitfish Mushrooms Long Polyp Leather Green Anchor Coral Zoanthids Trumpet Coral Goniopora Current Tank Info: 360 litre (95 US Gallons), Tunze DOC Skimmer 9010, Lights: Metal Halide 250 Watt and 2x24 Watt Moon Lights, Tunze MultiController 7095

12/28/2008, 06:32 PM	#3
James77 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 8,158	What is your water source-tap water? Are you using RO/DI water? __________________ Jim Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater

12/28/2008, 07:38 PM	#5
harleyreefer Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2007 Location: Lufkin Texas Posts: 84	I am a bit confused here. you say that you tested your tap water? What did you test it for, and what did you test it with? I think perhaps if you tested with a good TDS meter, you might possible reconsider the quality of your tap water. the Total Disolved solids coming from my tap is around 275 to 310 on average. I dont consider this to be particularly bad for me to live on, or drink, BUT,, there are many things that are in our tap water that is not very good for our marine friends. After RO, my readings go down to about 4, and after DI, the readings are at 0... much better for my tank I believe. I doubt that there is much tap water out there, if any at all, that is suitible for a marine tank of any kind. RODI, or distilled would be the only way to go for a marine tank, and especially a reef tank...IMHO I see that you have been a registered member for much longer than me, though I have had marine tanks for many years. I always fought battles with algae with tap water myself. Sinse you have been on here this long, I will not go into the RODI thing here, as I am sure you have read it all before. Its just that if I was havin a battle with algae, and was using tap water, that would be the first thing I would try to change.. Good luck on the fight! :-) __________________ 200 gal DT w/ 110 sump 3x korilla4, 4x korilla7, quiet one 6000 return pump AquaC400 skimmer 72" constalation t5 fixture reefkeeper Elite, PC4x3,MLCx2(12 moon leds),SL1,Net Current Tank Info: 200 gallon w/110 sump

12/28/2008, 08:30 PM	#7
James77 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 8,158	.5 is nowhere near fine for a reef tank. You really want no more than .03-.05 for phosphate. While some of your current phosphate is coming from the cycling rock, there is probably a good amount from your tap water. Having your phosphate test read between 0-.5 is kind of vague. If it is 0 then great, but if it is .5, you will be constantly adding phosphate to your aquarium each time you topoff or water change. Good RO/Di systems can be had for not much more than 100-120 bucks, and I would consider them mandatory to succesful reefkeeping. __________________ Jim Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater

12/28/2008, 06:38 PM	#4
brandonb8 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: St. Charles Posts: 390	James, I am using tap water, but I ran a test on straight tap water to see if this was the cause (I was hoping it was). The tap turned out to be fine (between 0 and .5). I read that phosphate levels increase with decay and I'm hoping that the die off from my live rock is the reason that the phosphate levels are high. Once it cycles, I will do a 30% change and try to reduce it that way. Was just wondering if this was something to be alarmed about. I am using about 20 lbs of "worm rock" limestone and could not find any literature stating that limestone leeches phosphates. I combined this with 60 lbs of cured fiji rock. I am planning on taking a piece or two the worm rock and putting it in a bucket with tap water and then testing the bucket to see if it is my problem. Thanks in advance for the help though.

12/28/2008, 08:23 PM	#6
brandonb8 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: St. Charles Posts: 390	Harley, I ran a phosphate test on my tap water and it showed in between 0 and .5. What I was saying was that if it was a tap problem it should have showed up when I tested just the tap water. My tap water is fine (as far as phosphates go) but my tank had a high level of phosphates. On a side note, I joined the forum in 2004 when I was contemplating a saltwater tank. I decided on a cichlid tank so don't let my membership date fool you. I am extremely new to saltwater and plan on doing ro/di once my tank cycles. I didn't see a need to start my tank with ro/di water just to cycle it.

12/28/2008, 08:33 PM	#8
James77 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Rhode Island Posts: 8,158	On tap water- http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/jan2004/chem.htm On Phosphate- http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php Both were pulled from the Reef Chenistry forum under articles: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forum...hreadid=102605 __________________ Jim Current Tank Info: 120g Mixed Reef and 75g Freshwater

12/28/2008, 08:34 PM	#9
brandonb8 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2004 Location: St. Charles Posts: 390	James, I understand that .5 is not good for my reef tank. I plan on doing FOWLR to start out and then get into corals after a while. A RO/DI unit is on the way and once my tank cycles I will begin topping off with it until my tank is all RO/DI. My issue is that somehow my tank is over 3ppm phosphates and I was trying to pinpoint the cause. My OP was in concern of my elevated phosphate levels in relation to my tap water levels. I appreciate you taking the time to view my post.

12/28/2008, 09:52 PM	#10
Tylt33 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chico, California Posts: 1,755	Hi Brandon, The most common sources of PO4 seem to be over feeding (decaying food), and the tap water itself. My guess would be that your tap water is supplying part of the PO4, and that the die-off from your live rock is providing the rest. Watch for a big algae bloom; algae needs PO4 and nitrates to thrive. Sounds like you have the PO4, and that you're almost to the point that your nitrates will start coming into effect. At that point, your PO4 levels should start dropping (as the algae uses them in conjunction with your nitrates). If not, you'll know that something else is going on, and that you must have some other source of them. And keep in mind, the lower the PO4, the better. I had 1.0 ppm PO4 once, and it just about wrecked my tank. Just my two cents.

12/28/2008, 09:56 PM	#11
Tylt33 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Chico, California Posts: 1,755	OH. Keep in mind (as far as I know, this is correct), that while your water is evaporating, the PO4 will remain, causing your levels to rise (less water, same amount of PO4). Imagine if you had a soda and only the water evaporated out of it; you'd still have all the sugar left. Then when you topped off with more soda, you'd have more sugar than you began with. Could be part of it. You'll need to do water changes; simply topping off with RO/DI won't get the nasties out. And pray your water doesn't have copper in it! If you have an old house and copper pipes anywhere, you could poison your liverock and future inhabitants.

04/15/2016, 06:08 PM	#12
bangaicardinal Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 21	I know this is an old thread but for anyone reading it now, I just finished a cycle in a 125g reef tank I used RO/DI water (0ppm). Halfway through my cycle my PO4 was 2ppm, nitrites were 5ppm, Nitrates close to 0 A week later I tested and my PO4 was 2ppm, nitrites were 0ppm, and Nitrates were 20ppm, A week later my PO4 seems to have stabalized at 1ppm, my nitrites 0ppm, and Nitrates 40ppm respectively I just completed a 30% water change, and now my PO4 is down to 0.25ppm (it looks like--could be 0.5ppm, hard to tell with these API test kits) I think the only way to really bring your PO4 down quickly after cycle is water changes You could get a reactor and blah blah but this is the cheapest / quickest way