Fish dying from Ich or the medication?

vdubreuil · 04/20/2016, 09:09 PM

Hi guys, I am new to the reef hobby. Sunday I noticed that my fire fish had ich, so the following Monday I set up my 20 gallon with a hang on filter, heater and air stone. I used the water from my display tank, used a couple pieces of LR and one of the sponges from the filter. I removed all my fish and placed them in there, this included the fire fish, 2 saddleback clown fish( had a couple white specs as well) , a bangai Cardinal and an orange spotted watchman goby. I let them get use to the transfer for a couple hours and then dosed the tank with half the recommended dosage of API super ick cure. I have used this medication previously in my freshwater tank and it worked great. Today the firefish and goby have died. The clowns look healthy and the cardinal is breathing a bit heavy and not moving around the tank too much. Do you think my fish are having trouble with the medication or is it the ich that is killing them? My water parameters are spot on. Maybe I was too late in noticing the ich? I did not think it could kill a fish in a few days?

Sk8r · 04/20/2016, 10:41 PM

Meds can concentrate to fatal levels due to evaporation. But the problem may have been using a med WITH cycled sponge and live rock, which the med may have attacked, killing bacteria and causing an ammonia spike. I looked up the product, and all I can find involves freshwater ich. Marine ich is another sort; and many freshwater meds are not for use in marine tanks: you'll have to look at the label to see.

Ich can kill real fast ---some strains can---but at other times can lunk along with a few spots and no big deal. The rock and sponge are likely toast at this point. I'm sorry you've had such a rough time. I'd recommend pursuing tank transfer method with the survivors, no sponge, no rock: method described in the Fish Disease Forum. That may help them pull through, as I doubt they would fare well with more meds at this point. TTM is really easier on fish than the medications, some of which are very rough.

vdubreuil · 04/21/2016, 08:56 AM

Another one died today, thank you sk8er. There is no ammonia or nitrites but something fishy is going on lol

Dmorty217 · 04/21/2016, 09:07 AM

I don't think that API will work for ich. Also with the live rock whatever life is on it the API will kill and will probably cause ammonia to show up (possibly). I would look at some other methods for treating the ich. I have treated ich many times but have never used API for it

vdubreuil · 04/21/2016, 12:23 PM

Okay thanks, I have used Ali super ich cure for my freshwater and it worked, it is used to treat marine ich aswell. I have been testing my water parameters twice a day and everything shows up fine. Today I brought my dead Cardinal and water sample to my lfs and they said that my fish are suffering from a pathogen that probably diminishes their immune system. He said my dead Cardinal looked healthy and didn't have any flukes or white spots. He also said that ich thrives when a fishes immune system is compromised and that's why I had an outbreak in a few of my fish however that is not what is killing them and neither is the medication. I bought half my fish from Big Als last Friday and everything was fine until this Sunday. So I'm guessing the fish Big Als sold me had some sort of pathogen that is not visible to the naked eye?

Sk8r · 04/21/2016, 12:29 PM

Many aren't visible. That's why you should put new fish through tank-transfer before letting them into your DT. Now the DT should stay fishless (inverts are ok) for 72 days before adding another fish. Adding corals is ok, but since many parasites have a stage in rock/sandbed, you risk re-infestation, sort of like a house where you've had an outbreak of fleas. In this case, keep fish out until the parasite (likely) has starved out.

vdubreuil · 04/21/2016, 12:33 PM

Yep sounds good, I just wish I knew what it was, watching my clownfish slowly wither away sucks. I do notice a bit of ragged fins on the clowns now.

vdubreuil · 04/21/2016, 01:27 PM

Also milky eyes on the clownfish that is still alive

gallegos · 04/21/2016, 01:35 PM

Sounds more like brooknella. Ich can kill in the gills and not be visible

vdubreuil · 04/21/2016, 02:58 PM

Hmm okay thank you gallegos

Dmorty217 · 04/21/2016, 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vdubreuil

Also milky eyes on the clownfish that is still alive

Also signs of ich. Can also mean flukes.

Percula9 · 04/21/2016, 05:12 PM

What is the chemical in that product?Copper or formalin is the. Recommended treatment for ich.

04/20/2016, 09:09 PM	#1
vdubreuil Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Fish dying from Ich or the medication? Hi guys, I am new to the reef hobby. Sunday I noticed that my fire fish had ich, so the following Monday I set up my 20 gallon with a hang on filter, heater and air stone. I used the water from my display tank, used a couple pieces of LR and one of the sponges from the filter. I removed all my fish and placed them in there, this included the fire fish, 2 saddleback clown fish( had a couple white specs as well) , a bangai Cardinal and an orange spotted watchman goby. I let them get use to the transfer for a couple hours and then dosed the tank with half the recommended dosage of API super ick cure. I have used this medication previously in my freshwater tank and it worked great. Today the firefish and goby have died. The clowns look healthy and the cardinal is breathing a bit heavy and not moving around the tank too much. Do you think my fish are having trouble with the medication or is it the ich that is killing them? My water parameters are spot on. Maybe I was too late in noticing the ich? I did not think it could kill a fish in a few days?

04/20/2016, 10:41 PM	#2
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Meds can concentrate to fatal levels due to evaporation. But the problem may have been using a med WITH cycled sponge and live rock, which the med may have attacked, killing bacteria and causing an ammonia spike. I looked up the product, and all I can find involves freshwater ich. Marine ich is another sort; and many freshwater meds are not for use in marine tanks: you'll have to look at the label to see. Ich can kill real fast ---some strains can---but at other times can lunk along with a few spots and no big deal. The rock and sponge are likely toast at this point. I'm sorry you've had such a rough time. I'd recommend pursuing tank transfer method with the survivors, no sponge, no rock: method described in the Fish Disease Forum. That may help them pull through, as I doubt they would fare well with more meds at this point. TTM is really easier on fish than the medications, some of which are very rough. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/21/2016, 09:07 AM	#4
Dmorty217 Saltwater Addict Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Vandalia OHIO Posts: 11,624	I don't think that API will work for ich. Also with the live rock whatever life is on it the API will kill and will probably cause ammonia to show up (possibly). I would look at some other methods for treating the ich. I have treated ich many times but have never used API for it __________________ Fish are not disposable commodities, but a worthwhile investment that can be maintained and enjoyed for many years, providing one is willing to take the time to understand their requirements and needs Current Tank Info: 625g, 220g sump, RD3 230w, Vectra L1 on a closed loop, 3 MP60s, MP40. Several QTs

04/21/2016, 12:29 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Many aren't visible. That's why you should put new fish through tank-transfer before letting them into your DT. Now the DT should stay fishless (inverts are ok) for 72 days before adding another fish. Adding corals is ok, but since many parasites have a stage in rock/sandbed, you risk re-infestation, sort of like a house where you've had an outbreak of fleas. In this case, keep fish out until the parasite (likely) has starved out. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/21/2016, 08:56 AM	#3
vdubreuil Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Another one died today, thank you sk8er. There is no ammonia or nitrites but something fishy is going on lol

04/21/2016, 12:23 PM	#5
vdubreuil Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Okay thanks, I have used Ali super ich cure for my freshwater and it worked, it is used to treat marine ich aswell. I have been testing my water parameters twice a day and everything shows up fine. Today I brought my dead Cardinal and water sample to my lfs and they said that my fish are suffering from a pathogen that probably diminishes their immune system. He said my dead Cardinal looked healthy and didn't have any flukes or white spots. He also said that ich thrives when a fishes immune system is compromised and that's why I had an outbreak in a few of my fish however that is not what is killing them and neither is the medication. I bought half my fish from Big Als last Friday and everything was fine until this Sunday. So I'm guessing the fish Big Als sold me had some sort of pathogen that is not visible to the naked eye?

04/21/2016, 12:33 PM	#7
vdubreuil Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Yep sounds good, I just wish I knew what it was, watching my clownfish slowly wither away sucks. I do notice a bit of ragged fins on the clowns now.

04/21/2016, 01:27 PM	#8
vdubreuil Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Also milky eyes on the clownfish that is still alive

04/21/2016, 01:35 PM	#9
gallegos Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Rio Rancho New Mexico Posts: 162	Sounds more like brooknella. Ich can kill in the gills and not be visible

04/21/2016, 02:58 PM	#10
vdubreuil Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Ontario, Canada Posts: 7	Hmm okay thank you gallegos

04/21/2016, 05:12 PM	#12
Percula9 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2007 Location: Orange County CA Posts: 3,819	What is the chemical in that product?Copper or formalin is the. Recommended treatment for ich.