My Mom Wants a Reef

[littleredriding]

Hello everyone! I very recently got into the fish keeping hobby. I decided to start simple and have a little 20 gallon freshwater with plants and such. A few weeks ago, my mom and I went to our only mom and pop style LFS, they only did saltwater, so I wasn't interested in buying fish, but I thought I could probably buy equipment from them and help support the community. While we were there, we saw this little black and white thing (Clown Triggerfish) that my mom fell in love with. She liked his little beak mouth and kept saying "Aww I love his lips, I just want to kiss him!" After we left she decided that she wanted a reef tank (as long as I do the research, setup, and upkeep XD)

Onto the meat of the post, even though I've read all the guides on FishLore, I'm completely lost (they really cater mostly to freshwater.) I'll make my way through the guides on here but I was hoping to make a thread to kind of follow my progress and have you guys hold my hand along the way.

I thought it would be good to start with equipment I need. Here's a list of the things I've read I need/am planning on getting:

- 75 gallon tank with stand (the one I found on Craigslist comes with a sump and the required plumbing for that)

- A protein skimmer (I understand these need to be rated higher than the volume of your tank. I found one that's rated for 150g and another rated for 210g, which is better? Or should I go higher?)

-Power heads to create 1500 GPH flow between them and the skimmer (more flow? Less? Brands?)

- Lights (My mom wants corals, I've asked her to avoid SPS since I read about how difficult they are but she might still want 2 or 3 on the upper levels. What kind of light is good for mostly soft and LPS corals?)

- Light timer

- Heaters (are aqueon pro heaters good for salt?)

- Copious amounts of thermometers, both regular and electric

- 70-80 lbs live rock or 40ish pounds live and the rest dry

- Aragonite sand (enough for around 2 inches)

- Reef salt mix

- RO water (Does it absolutely have to be DI as well?)

- Saltwater test kit and refractometer (I read that API's Freshwater Master Test Kit works for salt as well, just with different colors. Is that true? I also have a calcium test, do I need others for a reef?)

- Possibly supplements for the coral?

Am I missing anything? Is there anything else I need to know or have gotten wrong? Does this sound like a good setup for a beginner?

Just FYI, we scrapped the clown trigger idea, we just don't have the space for a 300+ gallon tank. Is there anything that looks like it but isn't so mean and big?

[kmbyrnes]

Welcome to the addiction and enjoy the ride!
Read the setting up stickies marked with a red arrow at the top of this forum for a lot of great information on getting started.

The number one thing you need is patience, and it is tough to be patient in the beginning ( and later too ).
Read, read some more and ask questions, that's what this community is all about.
There are 2 other things I think make this hobby easier all around for me.

Number one is an RODI unit. Yes you want the DI part. Control of your water supply makes keeping your other parameters in line much easier. There are number of good units offered by RC sponsors. All of them will do a good job providing you with cheap, high quality water with out the need to lug it from the LFS.

Number two is to quarantine from day 1. You may not want to be thinking about this before you even have a display tank. If you read all the horror stories on these forums, you will realize that it is not a question of IF, but rather WHEN ich or another disease will strike your system. Far better for it to happen in isolation than to wipe out your entire system. No LFS properly QT's the fish they sell, no matter what they tell you. It doesn't cost as much as losing a tankful of fish, and the Petco $1/gallon can get you completely set up for less than $100 for 2 sets of 10g tanks to to TTM

[Scottshopinc]

Patience is the hardest part, and not being patient will cost you more than anything.

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- 75 gallon tank with stand (the one I found on Craigslist comes with a sump and the required plumbing for that)

buy new bulkheads, don't reuse any that may come with the tank. they're cheap, CPR aquatics makes good schedule 40 ones. you can find them on amazon, most pet website (Dr foster smith, bulk reef supply, marine depot, etc...), and make sure you leak test before committing.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- A protein skimmer (I understand these need to be rated higher than the volume of your tank. I found one that's rated for 150g and another rated for 210g, which is better? Or should I go higher?)

all things being equal i usually go larger, however, usually with skimmers all things are not equal. the two biggest considerations are space and pump. the space is important so that the foot print of the skimmer (and height) will fit in your sump. the pump is important because it is the beating heart of the skimmer. buy a good skimmer the first time around, on my 75 i was using a Reef Octopus rated for about 180 gallons. worked well, and replaced a cheaper CoraLife brand skimmer that i hated.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

-Power heads to create 1500 GPH flow between them and the skimmer (more flow? Less? Brands?)

the skimmer won't produce flow, but it will help oxygenate. your return pump from the sump will likely produce a little flow, but for a standard dimension 75 gallon i like having at least two powerheads, one on either side of the tank. the size will be a bit dependent on what kind of flow (high/med/low) you're trying to get, and what your rock layout looks like. i would probably be looking at least 750gph on each side.

my preference for powerheads is Vortech, but they are super pricey. Koralia makes some OK ones, other than those two i haven't tried any other brands personally.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Lights (My mom wants corals, I've asked her to avoid SPS since I read about how difficult they are but she might still want 2 or 3 on the upper levels. What kind of light is good for mostly soft and LPS corals?)

- Light timer

you have some choices here. LED, T5, Metal Halide, or some combination of a few or all of those would work for you. there are benefits and trade offs to each. lights are another place where it is good to buy quality once. i started with cheap LED fixtures and they didn't do a good job with corals, so i upgraded to some Aqua Illumination LEDs which i love.

quality LEDs work well, keep heat low, can grow just about anything, and don't need bulb replacement, and many of them offer controllers or otherwise have integrated timers (model dependent). the downside is that they cost quite a bit of money.

Metal Halide lights work well, and can grow just about anything. downside is that they add a lot of heat to the tank, and need bulb replacement. they can also be fairly expensive.

T5 work well, but are much lower power than most LED or MH rigs. this isn't necessarily a down side, it just means you need to plan where things are going a little more carefully. look for a rig with an integrated timer and individual reflectors for each bulb. most T5 are more than capable of growing SPS corals, as long as they're close enough to the light source. T5's will still add heat to the tank, but not nearly as much as MH. another upside is that good T5 fixtures can be had for much cheaper than a high end LED rig. they will need bulb replacement, but bulbs are reasonably priced for most of the systems.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Heaters (are aqueon pro heaters good for salt?)

i really like my ViaAqua titanium heaters. they come with a little electronic controller and don't shatter like glass ones.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Copious amounts of thermometers, both regular and electric

a controller will be your best friend here. either something simple like a Ranco to watch over your heaters and make sure they don't ever get stuck in the on position, or a full blown apex, which is a lot more money (i think the Rancos go for about $50 or so) but gives you loads more options. something like an Apex is probably more than you're going to need/want starting out, but it's not a bad thing to have on your radar for the future. you're perfectly capable of running a successful tank without one, but i like some of the features it gives me.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- 70-80 lbs live rock or 40ish pounds live and the rest dry

i would probably go with 70+ pounds of rock, only about 10 of it live. hunting and picking for the perfect piece of rock during a build is one of my favorite parts of the hobby. if you haven't already, check out the stickies on fishless cycling. there are a few methods you can pick from to cycle your tank without involving any live animals.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Aragonite sand (enough for around 2 inches)

don't buy live sand, get the dry stuff, and rinse it really really really really well!

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Reef salt mix

lots of options here, and everyone has their favorite.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- RO water (Does it absolutely have to be DI as well?)

yes, you want the DI stage. the output of your filter should be 0 TDS.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Saltwater test kit and refractometer (I read that API's Freshwater Master Test Kit works for salt as well, just with different colors. Is that true? I also have a calcium test, do I need others for a reef?)

API has a specific saltwater test kit. it's fine for cycling, but not accurate enough for anything else. Salifert makes some good quality tests, as does SeaChem and Hannah Instruments.

Originally Posted by littleredriding

- Possibly supplements for the coral?

the three big ones are alkalinity, calcium, and magnesium. buy tests for these, test and supplement accordingly. likely you won't need to start out dosing anything, but once you begin getting corals in there you will want to keep these three rock solid stable to help promote coral growth.

they are also very important for fish health, alkalinity especially helps with slime coat, but you have more wiggle room with just fish, and they don't uptake nearly the amount that growing stony corals will.

one last piece of equipment that is a must have for me, an auto top off system. stabilizing salinity is the first step to a healthy tank, and an ATO system is an indispensable tool for this. there are a myriad of options here, everything from DIY to a fully automated prepackaged product. i like my Tunze 3155 so much i have multiples on my tanks, but take a look around at the options and figure out what works for your tank and your budget.

finally, welcome to the hobby. good luck, and don't be afraid to ask questions if you can't find the answer.

cheers.

-edit- oh and a big +1 to what kmbyrnes said. QT is a very important part of long term success in this hobby.

[snorvich]

Glad you are here.



To Reef Central

[littleredriding]

Thank you so much everyone! Don't worry about me rushing into things, 1: everything's so expensive I only want to buy things once, not get a bad piece of equipment and have to replace it and spend twice as much and 2: Priority 1 right now is convincing my dad my mom will want to take care of it when I go to college (she spent my and my brother's whole lives complaining about having to take care of our pets when we lost interest XD)

I also definitely plan on qt, I don't want to replace $500+ of livestock when something comes in with parasites.

[kmbyrnes]

Originally Posted by MondoBongo

one last piece of equipment that is a must have for me, an auto top off system. stabilizing salinity is the first step to a healthy tank, and an ATO system is an indispensable tool for this. there are a myriad of options here, everything from DIY to a fully automated prepackaged product. i like my Tunze 3155 so much i have multiples on my tanks, but take a look around at the options and figure out what works for your tank and your budget.

This, along with your own RODI, will help you keep your parameters in line more easily.
I can't imagine living without mine.

[MikeyAl]

Research, research, research. Know what you want in your tank - types of fish, corals, etc. then have a plan and don't vary too much. Liveaquaria.com has a good guide for comparability.
Please please please- have a QT set up and use it. Plenty of threads in here on how to set up

Plan on spending some time each week doing maintenance. Have a schedule. I like to do 5 gallons each week on my 90.
Finally- have fun. Welcome to this addicting but awesome hobby.


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[littleredriding]

I'm absolutely prepared for maintenance, from what I've read you change the amount of water monthly for salt that you do weekly with fresh (20-30%) so I can do 5 gallons weekly easy.

I'll be doing lots of research on anything that goes into the tank and whatever hitchhikes in on the live rock. I like the idea of having a Great Barrier Reef theme, my mom's always wished to go snorkeling or diving there. I haven't been doing serious research on fish or coral yet, I'm mostly just trying to get the water chemistry and equipment part right. The idea of not having a "real" filter is so hard for me to wrap my mind around! Just live rock and a skimmer is so bizarre after researching so much for fresh.

I can't find the forum rules so I'm not sure if linking things is ok here but I made a little list on Amazon. Are these all good quality and all the things I need ? (excluding the tank, I'm not super comfortable ordering a glass box online): http://amzn.com/w/MW79497E903H

[frey]

I also want to mention that the clown trigger your mom fell in love with is probably not the best candidate for a reef tank. Everything everyone else said above is true but do just as much research on what you are stocking your tank with as you do with the equipment. although many fish are really cool, placing a clown trigger in a community reef tank would be a nightmare for you, your mom and the other fish and coral that would be with him in there.

[littleredriding]

Yeah, like I said, we decided it wouldn't work. I glanced at some care sheets for it and kept seeing minimum tank size: 300 gallons, we don't have that kind of space. Do you know of anything that looks similar but isn't such a terror?

[HobosReef]

A few thoughts:

- 2 Clowns and an anemone
- Master copopods and then get a Mandarin Goby.
- Foxface Rabbits are really cool and can help with algae just watch there spikes
- Fairy Wrasse has great color but is a jumper so make sure tank is completely enclosed
- Be very careful with the Tangs.

Lastly, follow Snorvitch's recommendations to the letter.

[bat21]

This would be my best suggestion as a clown trigger substitute. It's called a mimic filefish. Would be fine in a 75gallon.

[littleredriding]

Hmm, she liked it (she likes all the colorful ones) but it didn't get nearly the same reaction as the trigger. I think it's the big "lips" she likes more than the body color/pattern.

[littleredriding]

I think my bio department is taking apart their big reef in the lobby. It's been running for a few years and the guy in charge of it left. If I can get some of their rock for my tank would it be cycled? Or at least cured already? Like putting old media in a new filter for freshwater?

[MondoBongo]

Originally Posted by littleredriding

I think my bio department is taking apart their big reef in the lobby. It's been running for a few years and the guy in charge of it left. If I can get some of their rock for my tank would it be cycled? Or at least cured already? Like putting old media in a new filter for freshwater?

so yes and maybe.

you might still experience a cycle, depending on how much die off you have in transport and what the load will be. so i would say grab some of that rock if you can get a good deal on it, but expect that you will still need to spend some amount of time allowing the tank to cycle.

what i like to do when starting a new tank, is dose pure ammonia. then i can very accurately control how much i am adding. i usually go up to 2ppm and then see what happens. if you can convert 2ppm of ammonia to nitrite then in to nitrate within 24 hours, you're bio filter is nice and strong.