scenario: you bought 2 of a kind and now they're growing up and hate each other...

Sk8r · 06/29/2016, 03:24 PM

This is a frequent problem.
What happens: they hang out together as near-fry. Then they grow and somebody gets beaten up on. What to do?
1. you can change the rockwork around, thus wiping out territories and forcing them to adjust; or
2. you can hang up a scarecrow---either park a net near the problem or put a reflective item near the glass. And keep moving it.
3. you can remove them to separate qt, then after a week put them in at opposite ends of the tank.

Ideally one will begin to get the idea he is going to lose that territory or lose his fins, and if the rockwork is ample enough, he will move on a bit, which will resolve the stress. It also helps if they're not the only two in the tank.

Can having 3 help? Maybe. In some species it only means there's LESS room and they battle down to 1.

My 2 fiji blues decided they'd had enough of each other, and one stayed for a week, losing half his tail and half the scales on one side. No way in the world to catch them, and the rock they've picked is structural, so, well, they're in it for the whole ball game. I chose option 2., and FINALLY the smaller one is beginning to stake out a rock 5 inches from the other one, which finally seems to have pacified the dominant blue. Unless I stand close---then they crowd together hoping for food and renew the quarrel, so I feed quickly and get about 10 feet back. This solves the problem.

They should be fine, ultimately. Should have had my head examined for not putting them in separately at opposite ends of the tank (and low, because of the adult domino that runs the show.) But that might not have worked, either: one sight of her, and they'd have probably schooled-up, all two of them, at one end, and then fought it out later. Now after a week she couldn't care less about them, but they are having to work out that territory matter.

It's a special problem when you've had tank losses (8 day blackout in winter) and had survivors that are now adult: you put in babies and have to convince Ms. Boss that they're not lunch. And step two is---'you're not the boss of me!' and adjustments. But I think we're working it out.

Sk8r · 07/01/2016, 10:19 AM

Follow-up report. The ejected fiji blue (who never stopped eating while losing half his tail and half the scales on one side of his body in fights with his 'brother') has now established a territory between 'brother's' and that of the yellowtail. There are mock skirmishes, but only the sort of things healthy damsels do with each other, a short dash and flourish, then a retreat.

I think we have turned the corner with the situation. Their territories will expand as they grow, but they are doing fine, and, typical of damsels, each species fights its battles totally ignored by the other, (in this case the 2 dascyllus) who cruise through the war zone oblivious to the fuss. The fiji blues are a little over an inch long, real babies, and the dominant dascyllus is 4.5" (plate-shaped) and about half an inch thick, solid muscle, so it's sort of like minnows skirmishing around a whale at this point. The scales will grow back---already showing signs of it, and the tail will grow back. I do not know whether they change sex as do clowns, but they are too small as yet to be sure what they are, in either case. At least we have peace and quiet in the tank now.

It is worth stating that, within the tank, dascyllus territories may overlap each other, and the blues territories may overlap and overlap the dascyllus' digs, ie, that this is their range of venture, but those territories somewhat migrate with the fish. The big dascyllus has swept out the sand to enlarge her cave, which she rules, the b&w has his digs in a smaller cave nearby, and the blues house right near the b&w dascyllus and occasionally violate his space when he's not at home, but haven't the nerve to sashay through the big gal's cave, whether she's home or not.

Sensible of them. When *she* goes on the warpath, she'll go anywhere she wants. Fortunately this is only at feeding time.

TauntingBeef · 07/01/2016, 04:49 PM

lol love the story. good news so far about the fish. its those things you wrote about I cant wait to start getting my livestock.

Cliving1 · 07/02/2016, 05:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TauntingBeef

lol love the story. good news so far about the fish. its those things you wrote about I cant wait to start getting my livestock.

+1, appreciate the story- it was a good read keep it up!

Sk8r · 07/02/2016, 08:38 AM

Annnd...this morning I come near the tank, which to the fish means food is at least possible---and the dominant fiji blue, all inch and a quarter of him/her, does his tiny little flare-up and territorial warning at Ms. Dominant Dascyllus, which is sort of like a rowboat threatening the Titanic. The amusing bit is---she respected it and veered a little early without any animosity.

You have to see her when she's mad: buzzing so loud you can hear it across the room, plowing through the water at speed---a signal to everything in the tank to get out of the way. But mild as milk, she let the little squirt flare up and declare that corner as his, at least until there's food there that she wants. At that point she goes there and everywhere else.

TauntingBeef · 07/02/2016, 12:10 PM

lol

06/29/2016, 03:24 PM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	scenario: you bought 2 of a kind and now they're growing up and hate each other... This is a frequent problem. What happens: they hang out together as near-fry. Then they grow and somebody gets beaten up on. What to do? 1. you can change the rockwork around, thus wiping out territories and forcing them to adjust; or 2. you can hang up a scarecrow---either park a net near the problem or put a reflective item near the glass. And keep moving it. 3. you can remove them to separate qt, then after a week put them in at opposite ends of the tank. Ideally one will begin to get the idea he is going to lose that territory or lose his fins, and if the rockwork is ample enough, he will move on a bit, which will resolve the stress. It also helps if they're not the only two in the tank. Can having 3 help? Maybe. In some species it only means there's LESS room and they battle down to 1. My 2 fiji blues decided they'd had enough of each other, and one stayed for a week, losing half his tail and half the scales on one side. No way in the world to catch them, and the rock they've picked is structural, so, well, they're in it for the whole ball game. I chose option 2., and FINALLY the smaller one is beginning to stake out a rock 5 inches from the other one, which finally seems to have pacified the dominant blue. Unless I stand close---then they crowd together hoping for food and renew the quarrel, so I feed quickly and get about 10 feet back. This solves the problem. They should be fine, ultimately. Should have had my head examined for not putting them in separately at opposite ends of the tank (and low, because of the adult domino that runs the show.) But that might not have worked, either: one sight of her, and they'd have probably schooled-up, all two of them, at one end, and then fought it out later. Now after a week she couldn't care less about them, but they are having to work out that territory matter. It's a special problem when you've had tank losses (8 day blackout in winter) and had survivors that are now adult: you put in babies and have to convince Ms. Boss that they're not lunch. And step two is---'you're not the boss of me!' and adjustments. But I think we're working it out. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 06/29/2016 at 03:31 PM.

07/01/2016, 10:19 AM	#2
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Follow-up report. The ejected fiji blue (who never stopped eating while losing half his tail and half the scales on one side of his body in fights with his 'brother') has now established a territory between 'brother's' and that of the yellowtail. There are mock skirmishes, but only the sort of things healthy damsels do with each other, a short dash and flourish, then a retreat. I think we have turned the corner with the situation. Their territories will expand as they grow, but they are doing fine, and, typical of damsels, each species fights its battles totally ignored by the other, (in this case the 2 dascyllus) who cruise through the war zone oblivious to the fuss. The fiji blues are a little over an inch long, real babies, and the dominant dascyllus is 4.5" (plate-shaped) and about half an inch thick, solid muscle, so it's sort of like minnows skirmishing around a whale at this point. The scales will grow back---already showing signs of it, and the tail will grow back. I do not know whether they change sex as do clowns, but they are too small as yet to be sure what they are, in either case. At least we have peace and quiet in the tank now. It is worth stating that, within the tank, dascyllus territories may overlap each other, and the blues territories may overlap and overlap the dascyllus' digs, ie, that this is their range of venture, but those territories somewhat migrate with the fish. The big dascyllus has swept out the sand to enlarge her cave, which she rules, the b&w has his digs in a smaller cave nearby, and the blues house right near the b&w dascyllus and occasionally violate his space when he's not at home, but haven't the nerve to sashay through the big gal's cave, whether she's home or not. Sensible of them. When she goes on the warpath, she'll go anywhere she wants. Fortunately this is only at feeding time. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%. Last edited by Sk8r; 07/01/2016 at 10:30 AM.

07/02/2016, 08:38 AM	#5
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Annnd...this morning I come near the tank, which to the fish means food is at least possible---and the dominant fiji blue, all inch and a quarter of him/her, does his tiny little flare-up and territorial warning at Ms. Dominant Dascyllus, which is sort of like a rowboat threatening the Titanic. The amusing bit is---she respected it and veered a little early without any animosity. You have to see her when she's mad: buzzing so loud you can hear it across the room, plowing through the water at speed---a signal to everything in the tank to get out of the way. But mild as milk, she let the little squirt flare up and declare that corner as his, at least until there's food there that she wants. At that point she goes there and everywhere else. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

07/02/2016, 12:10 PM	#6
TauntingBeef Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Aztec,Nm Posts: 200	lol __________________ 2 blue chromis,1 maldives exquisite firefish, 2 yellow clown gobies,1 green clown gobies, lawnmower blennie it 1 flamehawk Current Tank Info: 48"long 55 gallon 30 pounds of dead sand,40 pounds of reefsaver rock, 5 pounds of live fiji rock, 2 sun powerheads,20 long sump with a viaAqua 2600 pump

07/01/2016, 04:49 PM	#3
TauntingBeef Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Aztec,Nm Posts: 200	lol love the story. good news so far about the fish. its those things you wrote about I cant wait to start getting my livestock.