Nano fish scared of new Yellow Tang....

dhalderman · 06/22/2016, 11:57 AM

Added a 3" yellow tang on 6/20. 70 gallon, been running for 8 months. Today is the beginning of the second full day of him being in there. He warmed up quick, and although my potters tried to intimidate him for the first couple hours, by the next morning they are grazing together and seem to be pals. Very cool. Court Jester and Tail spot both give him respect but go about their business.
My problems are my fire fish is deathly afraid of him, and my clownfish pair are to, staying up in the corner of the tank to avoid him. There had been no aggression on the Tang's part, nice slow graceful movements while grazing, the clowns will venture out when the YT is on the other side or behind rocks, but when he comes back around they scurry up to the corner. The firefish never come out from his hole, he'll poke his head out at feeding, he wants to, but he darts in first minute he sees the tang. Kind of expected this from him for a bit, but am really surprised about the clownfish, those little dudes don't give a crap about nothing haha, hand in the tank, water change, cleaning the sand, rocks, nothing bothers them, so this surprises me a lot.

Question is, does anybody have experiences with established nano fish getting afraid and hiding due to the addition of a peaceful larger fish? If so, should I expect them to get over it? Or is this their new baseline?

GimpyFin · 06/22/2016, 12:43 PM

I don't think I'd really classify a YT as peaceful. As he gets a little bigger in a 70G tank and you add fish after him, he could turn into a royal turd. That said, the other fish behavior depends. Firefish in general are on the skiddish side. I have a purple and a helfrichi and the helfrichi and purple hang together, but the helfrichi takes to their burrow often when some of the other fish swim around him with no aggression at all. Clowns can be funny too, as they will pick spots and just kinda hang there, even switch spots back and forth. They might not really even be scared, they might just feel a little cramped when the YT is out so they go hang in the back. My black clown has a mushroom he hangs in most of the day, but at night swims in the back corner as some of the other fish like to sleep in the rock area where the mushrooms are.

Sk8r · 06/22/2016, 12:52 PM

Nano fish and regular fish frequently have this problem. Add a fish that normally grows to 8" to 10" and they see the threat. They take cover and many times you never see much of them after that.

dhalderman · 06/22/2016, 01:00 PM

The biggest thing that surprised me and the reason I thought I'd be ok is that he is really only a HAIR larger than my potters, and everyone is fine around the potters. I didn't expect to add another similar size fish and have these other fish freak out. The firefish is def afraid, runs for his life at the speed of light, and never did this around the potters. The clowfish never changed anything about their behavior around the potters, but now wont leave the corner.
That's the main reason I think the clowns are scared to, it's a distinct change from their baseline. I'm just wondering if anybody thinks or has experienced that they will be able to deduce that the YT is not a threat, or will they forever consciously avoid him?

dhalderman · 06/22/2016, 01:02 PM

@sk8r saw your reply after my last post. Man I hope they can get a little used to the YT. At least more so than right now.

GimpyFin · 06/22/2016, 01:19 PM

What sk8r said can definitely happen. Tank size can play a factor and aggression can be more of an issue in smaller tanks, depending on the fish. 75G is really about the absolute smallest you want to go for a YT. The other fish might not have the same behavior with a larger fish in a larger tank. I have a purple tang in my 110 and all my smaller fish (2 firefish, clown, chromis, fathead anthias) are all fine with him.

dhalderman · 06/22/2016, 01:49 PM

GimpyFin did you add the tang before or after most of those smaller fish? If after, were the smaller fish weary of him at all? Even for a little bit?

GimpyFin · 06/22/2016, 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dhalderman

GimpyFin did you add the tang before or after most of those smaller fish? If after, were the smaller fish weary of him at all? Even for a little bit?

He was one of the last fish I added at the time and it's been about a year and a half since. All the smaller fish have been fine with him in the tank, almost like he was there the whole time. He does act a little more territorial with new fish now that he's a little bigger, but it's not bad and all my fish are small except for him and a marine betta. I added a small Mitratus butterfly almost 2 months ago, and the purple tang chased him a little bit off and on, but it didn't last long and everybody's business as usual.

dhalderman · 06/22/2016, 03:24 PM

Hmmm, thanks for the input GimpyFin. I agree that being a 70 I am riding the border of what should house a YT, and agree that this could explain the difference between my nano fish's behavior and yours. Mine are forced in a little bit of closer quarters with the new big Tang than yours had to be, so they are forced to be in closer range with him, more often. Harder to give him space than in a 110.
For the record, I always knew that going this route, id have to consider re-homing him down the road if he outgrows it. But I think with YT and a 70 gallon, its a hard call and may depend on the individual YT as well. I will def be keeping an eye on him as he grows to see if there are signs of him outgrowing this environment.

As far as the nano fish go, I keep my hopes up because ive seen them accept the potters as a non threat member of their community, so I hope they can do it with the tang as well. Maybe in my closer quarters environment it will simply take a tad longer, I wonder if the tangs color and big fins make him simply look more imposing, cuz he's seriously almost the same size as the potters. I guess I will soon find out.

GimpyFin · 06/22/2016, 04:01 PM

Yeah, it can be difficult to get everything cohesive and stress free in a tank. My tank has the same footprint as a 75G, it's just a lot taller. I've found the extra height gives the fish a lot more room to separate and swim up above and they're not all just down below swimming around the rocks. Anyway, hope it all works out well. Cheers.

dhalderman · 07/02/2016, 05:51 PM

UPDATE.
Slowly but surely the the firefish and clowns are becoming accustom to the new bigger yellow tang. The firefish started by slowly poking his head out and running in when the YT went by. For a couple days didnt eat. Slowly, and motivated by hunger, he would come out during feeding and quickly grab some food. This served to help desensitize him and the more he came out exposed to the YT the more he got used to it and slowly improved. Currently, he comes out all the time almost like normal, probably 85% of before, with only rarer "dart" reactions when the tang comes exceptionally close. But even then, the firefish quickly recovers and comes right back out.
The clowns are always funny, picking one spot than the next, and making it their little spot, I wish they would utilize more of the tank. That hasn't changed much, they seem a little timid of the tang, but don't let it stop them from eating or grabbing a random floating morsel if they see one across the tank. For the most part, they usually stay in "clown corner" in the back of the tank though.

Daniel62 · 07/03/2016, 10:27 PM

It not the size of your fish as much as it is their personality/disposition. The potter (which I have a pair of) are way more chill than my YT. Granted they are in a much bigger tank than yours. Well enjoy your tang while you can, but like you know he will get grumpier as he gets bigger in that size tank.

06/22/2016, 11:57 AM	#1
dhalderman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 82	Nano fish scared of new Yellow Tang.... Added a 3" yellow tang on 6/20. 70 gallon, been running for 8 months. Today is the beginning of the second full day of him being in there. He warmed up quick, and although my potters tried to intimidate him for the first couple hours, by the next morning they are grazing together and seem to be pals. Very cool. Court Jester and Tail spot both give him respect but go about their business. My problems are my fire fish is deathly afraid of him, and my clownfish pair are to, staying up in the corner of the tank to avoid him. There had been no aggression on the Tang's part, nice slow graceful movements while grazing, the clowns will venture out when the YT is on the other side or behind rocks, but when he comes back around they scurry up to the corner. The firefish never come out from his hole, he'll poke his head out at feeding, he wants to, but he darts in first minute he sees the tang. Kind of expected this from him for a bit, but am really surprised about the clownfish, those little dudes don't give a crap about nothing haha, hand in the tank, water change, cleaning the sand, rocks, nothing bothers them, so this surprises me a lot. Question is, does anybody have experiences with established nano fish getting afraid and hiding due to the addition of a peaceful larger fish? If so, should I expect them to get over it? Or is this their new baseline?

06/22/2016, 12:43 PM	#2
GimpyFin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,032	I don't think I'd really classify a YT as peaceful. As he gets a little bigger in a 70G tank and you add fish after him, he could turn into a royal turd. That said, the other fish behavior depends. Firefish in general are on the skiddish side. I have a purple and a helfrichi and the helfrichi and purple hang together, but the helfrichi takes to their burrow often when some of the other fish swim around him with no aggression at all. Clowns can be funny too, as they will pick spots and just kinda hang there, even switch spots back and forth. They might not really even be scared, they might just feel a little cramped when the YT is out so they go hang in the back. My black clown has a mushroom he hangs in most of the day, but at night swims in the back corner as some of the other fish like to sleep in the rock area where the mushrooms are. __________________ Brian Current Tank Info: 110 gallon

06/22/2016, 12:52 PM	#3
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Nano fish and regular fish frequently have this problem. Add a fish that normally grows to 8" to 10" and they see the threat. They take cover and many times you never see much of them after that. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/22/2016, 01:19 PM	#6
GimpyFin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,032	What sk8r said can definitely happen. Tank size can play a factor and aggression can be more of an issue in smaller tanks, depending on the fish. 75G is really about the absolute smallest you want to go for a YT. The other fish might not have the same behavior with a larger fish in a larger tank. I have a purple tang in my 110 and all my smaller fish (2 firefish, clown, chromis, fathead anthias) are all fine with him. __________________ Brian Current Tank Info: 110 gallon

06/22/2016, 04:01 PM	#10
GimpyFin Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2016 Location: Portland, OR Posts: 2,032	Yeah, it can be difficult to get everything cohesive and stress free in a tank. My tank has the same footprint as a 75G, it's just a lot taller. I've found the extra height gives the fish a lot more room to separate and swim up above and they're not all just down below swimming around the rocks. Anyway, hope it all works out well. Cheers. __________________ Brian Current Tank Info: 110 gallon

06/22/2016, 01:00 PM	#4
dhalderman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 82	The biggest thing that surprised me and the reason I thought I'd be ok is that he is really only a HAIR larger than my potters, and everyone is fine around the potters. I didn't expect to add another similar size fish and have these other fish freak out. The firefish is def afraid, runs for his life at the speed of light, and never did this around the potters. The clowfish never changed anything about their behavior around the potters, but now wont leave the corner. That's the main reason I think the clowns are scared to, it's a distinct change from their baseline. I'm just wondering if anybody thinks or has experienced that they will be able to deduce that the YT is not a threat, or will they forever consciously avoid him?

06/22/2016, 01:02 PM	#5
dhalderman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 82	@sk8r saw your reply after my last post. Man I hope they can get a little used to the YT. At least more so than right now.

06/22/2016, 01:49 PM	#7
dhalderman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 82	GimpyFin did you add the tang before or after most of those smaller fish? If after, were the smaller fish weary of him at all? Even for a little bit?

06/22/2016, 03:24 PM	#9
dhalderman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 82	Hmmm, thanks for the input GimpyFin. I agree that being a 70 I am riding the border of what should house a YT, and agree that this could explain the difference between my nano fish's behavior and yours. Mine are forced in a little bit of closer quarters with the new big Tang than yours had to be, so they are forced to be in closer range with him, more often. Harder to give him space than in a 110. For the record, I always knew that going this route, id have to consider re-homing him down the road if he outgrows it. But I think with YT and a 70 gallon, its a hard call and may depend on the individual YT as well. I will def be keeping an eye on him as he grows to see if there are signs of him outgrowing this environment. As far as the nano fish go, I keep my hopes up because ive seen them accept the potters as a non threat member of their community, so I hope they can do it with the tang as well. Maybe in my closer quarters environment it will simply take a tad longer, I wonder if the tangs color and big fins make him simply look more imposing, cuz he's seriously almost the same size as the potters. I guess I will soon find out.

07/02/2016, 05:51 PM	#11
dhalderman Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2015 Posts: 82	UPDATE. Slowly but surely the the firefish and clowns are becoming accustom to the new bigger yellow tang. The firefish started by slowly poking his head out and running in when the YT went by. For a couple days didnt eat. Slowly, and motivated by hunger, he would come out during feeding and quickly grab some food. This served to help desensitize him and the more he came out exposed to the YT the more he got used to it and slowly improved. Currently, he comes out all the time almost like normal, probably 85% of before, with only rarer "dart" reactions when the tang comes exceptionally close. But even then, the firefish quickly recovers and comes right back out. The clowns are always funny, picking one spot than the next, and making it their little spot, I wish they would utilize more of the tank. That hasn't changed much, they seem a little timid of the tang, but don't let it stop them from eating or grabbing a random floating morsel if they see one across the tank. For the most part, they usually stay in "clown corner" in the back of the tank though.

07/03/2016, 10:27 PM	#12
Daniel62 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: kingman, AZ Posts: 1,483	It not the size of your fish as much as it is their personality/disposition. The potter (which I have a pair of) are way more chill than my YT. Granted they are in a much bigger tank than yours. Well enjoy your tang while you can, but like you know he will get grumpier as he gets bigger in that size tank. __________________ Mind over matter, if you don't mind it doesn't matter Current Tank Info: 225 reef, 125 clown & haddoni tank, Haddoni's Big Bad & Beautiful, I Love Them!