ATO Excessing

[sde1500]

Yea, I don't run an ATO right now, but the level in your tank can't be changed by the ATO. That is, it can't if your tank is running properly. This seems to be a classic correlation assumed causation. Check to see if something is blocking your drain from flowing as fast as usual. I would assume that this is the issue. I can dump a gallon into my sump, tank level doesn't change. I dump 10 gallons in the sump, tank level still doesn't change. 100% agree with those on here saying it isn't your ATO that is the problem.

[JMorris271]

This is where the level ends up in the morning after I have set it to mid grill the night before. Resulting in
No skimming
Diluted levels
Assured flood in sump
Requiring constant maintenance
t1.jpg

This is where the sensor is set in the sump. The level stays here all the time keeping the return level at 1 inch above the pump and the fuge level at 10 inches at the baffle before the return chambers teeth which is perfect.
20160803_175450sensor.jpg

This is where the ato tube is set in the sump well above the water level
TUBE5.jpg

OK. I will check Drain pipes again. Im going to check that out and take the ato off and see if the pump chamber runs dry.
I am wondering if my drain lines have too much head in the drain runs. I don't understand why if it is a restriction, why won't valving the pump back solve it.

I have cleaned the sensor and the glass.

[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by sde1500

Check to see if something is blocking your drain from flowing as fast as usual.

So removing the ATO should reveal that problem do tou think?

[sde1500]

No, again, ATO probably has nothing to do with it. Unless you can somehow link the ATO to why your tank isn't draining properly. The only reason your ATO runs dry is because your return section is emptying faster than the drain can refill it. So the level gets slow, your ATO fills it. That extra water is then pumped into the tank, where the drain can't return it to the sump fast enough, then your return section runs low again. ATO kicks on refills it, wash, rinse, repeat until ATO tank is dry.

I can add 1 gallon or 15 gallons to my sump, the level in my tank NEVER goes up. I speed up my return pump too much, or slow down my drain pipe and the level in my tank goes up. Your tank return/drain isn't balanced, that is my assumption.

[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by sde1500

No, again, ATO probably has nothing to do with it. Unless you can somehow link the ATO to why your tank isn't draining properly. The only reason your ATO runs dry is because your return section is emptying faster than the drain can refill it. So the level gets slow, your ATO fills it. That extra water is then pumped into the tank, where the drain can't return it to the sump fast enough, then your return section runs low again. ATO kicks on refills it, wash, rinse, repeat until ATO tank is dry.

I can add 1 gallon or 15 gallons to my sump, the level in my tank NEVER goes up. I speed up my return pump too much, or slow down my drain pipe and the level in my tank goes up. Your tank return/drain isn't balanced, that is my assumption.

What I don't get is why would the skimmer chamber stay correct and not run low if there is a restriction? I have removed that ATO just to verify that it is not the cause.
Im just trying to understand this. Don't give up on me.
.

[sde1500]

I assume you have a baffle between the skimmer section and return?

This would make it that if enough water was flowing, the water would flow through the skimmer section into the return section. If there wasn't enough water, the skimmer section would stop flowing, because the water level is below the baffle.

[TangingOut]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

What I don't get is why would the skimmer chamber stay correct and not run low if there is a restriction? I have removed that ATO just to verify that it is not the cause.
Im just trying to understand this. Don't give up on me.
.

It doesn't run low, because you said that chamber is baffled.

[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by sde1500

I assume you have a baffle between the skimmer section and return?

This would make it that if enough water was flowing, the water would flow through the skimmer section into the return section. If there wasn't enough water, the skimmer section would stop flowing, because the water level is below the baffle.

In the baffle of my skimmer chamber the water flows through a slit in the mid bottom . Not over the top. There would still be a lower level in that frist chamber due to a restricted flow into that chamber

[sde1500]

Not sure what you are getting at there. There is still a baffle between your skimmer and return section.

For example: If your return pump is pumping 2 gallons per minute into your tank, but your drain is only draining 1 gallon, you are adding a gallon to your DT every minute. Eventually, the water level in the sump will be level with the opening in your baffle between the skimmer and return section, and no more water will flow to the return section, until the drain adds enough to push it over. As the water stops flowing into your return section, your ATO will turn on, to add the missing water. Thus, adding more water to the tank, because your drain is only adding 1 gallon per minute to the return section, your ATO has to contribute the other gallon.

Conceptually this is as much as I can provide. You took your ATO off line, so I guess you can post results for that later. Nothing more I can really provide until those results are known.

[JMorris271]

Thank you for the help sde

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

In the baffle of my skimmer chamber the water flows through a slit in the mid bottom . Not over the top. There would still be a lower level in that frist chamber due to a restricted flow into that chamber

Does the 2nd chamber have a over the top baffle? If so, the 1st n 2nd chambers will share the same water level. I'm assuming the return is after an over the top baffle.

The water level will never be lower because you are constantly adding to the chamber. It will fill up till it hits the over the top baffle and flow over it. Any water added will just make it flow over it so even if you reduced the drain flow by 1/2, all it will do is reduce the water flowing over the baffle by 1/2. Level will still stay the same.


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[JMorris271]

This is the baffle before the return chamber. Through the teeth and under the 2nd plate.

drain.jpg

The skimmer baffle has one plate with the exit through a hole in the mid bottom. No water passes over the top of this baffle. They do stay pretty much the same level

[vhuang168]

Yup. So skimmer section n this section before the return will stay at the same level.


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[JMorris271]

You are correct.

[blackway1688]

Originally Posted by nivram

Make sure the pump is turning off when it's supposed to.

In my case I found my pump would continue to drip water when it was off.


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This is obvious the siphon issue. I guess your water tube out is lower than the water level of reservoir.

[blackway1688]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

Hello RC.
My situation;
I am using a Smart ATO for topping off a tank. Imagine that.
The tube runs into the sump with the eye set at the water level I want to maintain in the return chamber.
After several hrs the level in the tank rises about an inch higher than I normally run and the ATO reservoir is running dry.
All the while, the level in the return chamber remains constant.
I know this is skewing up my salinity and all way off.
Any suggestions on what is going on here?
Help and thanks.

Hello,

I suspect that the flow rate of your return pump is not stable. Sometimes, the flow rate is too fast that the sump level dropped to drive ATO pumping on.

[JMorris271]

I just checked levels out this morning and find them to be spot on minus the ordinary evaporation. without the ATO running which defeats the point of an ATO. That's the DT and the Sump.
I sure as heck don't want to be limited to the manual method of TO.

[oseymour]

I think I experienced something similar when I was using a Jebao DC pump that was running full that was about to die.

Sometimes it would struggle which would lower the level of water in the display tank and increase the level in the sump causing my Tunze to alarm. Other times it would be fine and would increase the level in the display and lower in the sump causing the ATO to pump more water.


My tank - a Red Sea Reefer 350 - Build Thread - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2555495

[vhuang168]

Originally Posted by JMorris271

I just checked levels out this morning and find them to be spot on minus the ordinary evaporation. without the ATO running which defeats the point of an ATO. That's the DT and the Sump.
I sure as heck don't want to be limited to the manual method of TO.

Then I'm stumped. That is the only logical explanation. There is no other way for water to enter the DT except through the return.

So the previous issue shows up overnight as well? Or does it take a few days?



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[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by vhuang168

Then I'm stumped. That is the only logical explanation. There is no other way for water to enter the DT except through the return.

So the previous issue shows up overnight as well? Or does it take a few days?



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I will put the ATO back online and see where it goes.
There is one more possibility here I need to check. The pvc pipes going under the level of the sump may be causing back pressure making it more difficult for the water to drain into the sump.

[vhuang168]

So? What's the verdict?


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[JMorris271]

Thanks Andy.
It turns out that it was a defective ATO.
I took it out and the levels were where they should be.
I purchased another ATO, an now it stays right..
I cant explain it . I'm just reporting the facts mame.
As my ATO was not in warranty, it was an expensive fix..
Thanks for every ones input.

[JMorris271]

Originally Posted by andy67

Not sure where your Eye is but I run mine in my pump chamber. that is the chamber that will show evap loss

Yeppers. That is exactly where mine was.
The second one screwed up on my tank and also friends who I had asked to use on his system to add a control.
For me, it is just an issue of an unreliable piece of equipment. My loss. $165 down the tube.
The upshot is I have ordered the Tunz.
All totaled $360 for an ATO system.