About to get first fish!!

[abenak89]

So. The Copperband Butterfly has been in the LFS for a month. I found out today that they use prazipro to prevent as well. The fish EATS. I watch today and the butterfly was begging when the guy unfolded the folding steps and walked up. He is doing a combination of blood worms, mysis and a couple other things can't remember.

SO!!!!!!!! I told him I want to watch the fish till friday and take it home then and already paid for the fish. My 120g DT is on its 2nd week after a 100% water change from a move. I have been feeding the CUC and such and have not seen any ammonia, nitrite or nitrates. I said I want to give it the rest of this week to be sure.

I had a banggai cardinal in there for about a week as well (came with the tank) and didn't care for him so I gave him away.

WITH ALL THAT SAID...
I am tempted to introduce the Copperband right into the DT and treat the DT with prazipro one time and do a WC that following weekend. 8-10-16. I am tempted to ALSO purchase the melanurus wrasse when I pick up the CBB and put him into the QT for a couple weeks.

This way they can both be treated IF something where to come up. The wrasse has been in the LFS for a while too. Both look healthy. Swimming around the whole time. No scars or odd looking things on either. I do have a 10g ready to be setup as a hospital tank for the CBB if something to really go wrong.

So.. I want to hear if you think this will be ok. I feel the CBB has been in a QT for a month already as hes been in the LFS that long. He clearly is eating. Seems more then healthy. And my insurance is nothing is in my DT so I can treat him accordingly in there if need be. Plus my wrasse can be treated as well in the 20g QT.

Let's hear it! Thanks all! Finally getting my first fish!!!!!!!!

[CarrieB]

So what would be the plan if the CBB gets sick or dies in the DT? Many treatments aren't reef safe.


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[abenak89]

Originally Posted by CarrieB

So what would be the plan if the CBB gets sick or dies in the DT? Many treatments aren't reef safe.
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Well A. i don't have anything in the DT besides snails and few shrimp. IF the fish got sick I would remove and put in hospital tank. Depending what the sickness is I could/would just treat DT possibly.

The fish has been in the LFS for a month.. eating and doing fine. Yall just go right to worst case and I get it I get why but this is not some new fish ordered on live aquaria that I have no clue how it is doing or anything. I can visibly go watch this fish everyday, watch him eat everyday, watch him act normal everyday. Yall have to find a balance with tell new folks to plan for the worse but also assuring them that observing these fish is a great thing.

i mean what if I QT and treat with prazi for 2 weeks then bring to DT and it dies.. what if it dies 6 months from now for no clear reason.

I mean the purpose of a QT is to observe and treat... is that not what I am doing with the LFS?

ALSO by all means if yall agree to QT still then I will rethink this and just QT the cbb but just thought I was going a good thing still but maybe not

[Sk8r]

IF the fish gets ich, so does the sandbed in the DT, and it'll be 72 days with no fish in the dt in order to cure it.

[BrandonFlorida]

Never trust a LFS to QT any fish. Plus lots of LFS use the same water for all of the fish so any new added fish could get a disease to the fish. Plus I know some use low levels of copper to mask anything to make a sale. I wouldn't take a chance but then again I did make those mistakes when I first started in this hobby..

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by Sk8r

IF the fish gets ich, so does the sandbed in the DT, and it'll be 72 days with no fish in the dt in order to cure it.

Originally Posted by BrandonFlorida

Never trust a LFS to QT any fish. Plus lots of LFS use the same water for all of the fish so any new added fish could get a disease to the fish. Plus I know some use low levels of copper to mask anything to make a sale. I wouldn't take a chance but then again I did make those mistakes when I first started in this hobby..

True.. ugh yall are prolly right. Soo... could I maybe doing a half QT cycle given the circumstances? Maybe treat him twice with prazipro (around 2 weeks) and then introduce him to the DT?

Also can I QT mulitple fish? Not really in same tank but is there an issue to use my 10g for a QT as well and then introduce the fish to DT after QT at same time?

[kelp47]

You're doing well listening to advice here on RC. I encourage you to continue doing so. I had researched here thoroughly before ever buying a piece of equipment, and I quickly realized that patience is the most important aspect of keeping a successful tank. These guys know what they're talking about, and I'm really glad I took the advice and set up a QT. I almost cut my QT period short once, and my pair of clowns showed signs of ich the day before I planned to take them out. I ended up keeping them in QT/hospital tank for 80 days! It was such a long time, but they're very healthy and happy in my display now, and I am happy to report that I have only dealt with minor issues (like algae outbreaks) since I set my reef up over two years ago.

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by kelp47

You're doing well listening to advice here on RC. I encourage you to continue doing so. I had researched here thoroughly before ever buying a piece of equipment, and I quickly realized that patience is the most important aspect of keeping a successful tank. These guys know what they're talking about, and I'm really glad I took the advice and set up a QT. I almost cut my QT period short once, and my pair of clowns showed signs of ich the day before I planned to take them out. I ended up keeping them in QT/hospital tank for 80 days! It was such a long time, but they're very healthy and happy in my display now, and I am happy to report that I have only dealt with minor issues (like algae outbreaks) since I set my reef up over two years ago.

Wow.. I mean i would never introduce a sick fish to DT so if something is wrong I would definitely go the long haul!

[CarrieB]

I would also recommend you read the stickies about ick and TTM. Since you are obviously smart enough to understand why we QT, do a little more reading about what's effective.

The only thing to worry about QTing two fish in parallel tanks is the increase in bioload on the tank filtration. It would be better to stagger the introductions to let the tank adjust, especially for biggish fish.


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[abenak89]

So what do you recommend then? I read up on TTM should i cycle one time with prazipro and then ttm? Feels like such over kill for a healthy looking fish thay is eating very well... maybe im wrong tho

[DePinchGonze]

At the very best it will seem like a waste of time.

[snorvich]

The fish should be in quarantine a minimum of 4 weeks, ideally longer. The longer a fish is at an LFS, the greater the probability of it picking up a parasite. Doing TTM within that period of time is strongly preferred.

[abenak89]

So what am I supposed to so in this 4 weeks of QT? Prazipro? Ttm?

[oseymour]

I know I'm going against the grain BUT.

I would just go ahead and add the fish. You don't have anything else in the DT tank so your risk is low. If the fish gets ich, you remove it and treat separately and let the tank run fishless for 2 months, no need to treat the tank.

I don't have a quarantine tank, apartment dweller so no space for it so I have to trust my LFS to quarantine for me.

[abenak89]

So he is in the QT and fed him just a tiny bit as he start picking around the tank MOMENTS after getting in. He ate the little i dumped in. Going to give a little tiny bit more before I leave for work in about 40 mins as well. Letting him chill now. Heres a shot.

Very friendly. Very outgoing so far. Swimming not hiding or being shy. I have dosed with PraziPro so next Wednesday I will do 50% WC

I have Prime standing by with ammonia test strips in the tank. My biggest problem is I work 11hr days. So I won't see this fish until 130am. There is a big gap for things to go wrong so please pray I have everything set up well and the fish stays strong!

http://imgur.com/RDLm5i2

[kelp47]

abenak89, just to clarify, I never entertained putting the sick fish in the display. I meant I had planned to move them to the DT on a Monday (after 28 days) and considered moving them early on Saturday (after 26 days) when I thought they were well. But when I checked on them on Saturday I saw that they had ich. So I threw my timeline out, started treatment, and then started the QT timeline over again. I now QT for a minimum of 30 days, no exceptions.

I'm a big advocate of QT and recommend it with every fish. How anyone treats or does not treat their fish in QT is a personal preference. I like to give Prazipro as a precaution because it's a gentle med for a common issue. I normally don't treat for anything else unless I see symptoms. I have done TTM as a precaution once because I got a fish 6 weeks before I was going to be out of town for a week (not smart, I know, but I got lucky and won't do it again). I didn't want to leave a fish in QT for someone else to look after, so I felt the precaution was important. However, I would consider this as a precaution for certain ich magnets like tangs.

As others have stated, I don't consider the fish's time in the LFS to be QT... they're constantly adding new fish and therefore new opportunities for disease and parasites. Even if the fish is in a system separate from the main system, I wouldn't trust that it was left alone for 4 or more weeks. It's a business, not a vet.

Beautiful fish! You need a new job so you can spend more time enjoying watching him!

[abenak89]

Originally Posted by kelp47

Beautiful fish! You need a new job so you can spend more time enjoying watching him!

Right!! Well I turned lights off snuck back down there and he picked EVERY pierce of food off the bottom.. what a PIG! Should I give a little more when I get home? I am doing bloodworms and mysis soaked in garlic guard.

Thanks! It's a beaut!!!

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by abenak89

Right!! Well I turned lights off snuck back down there and he picked EVERY pierce of food off the bottom.. what a PIG! Should I give a little more when I get home? I am doing bloodworms and mysis soaked in garlic guard.

Thanks! It's a beaut!!!

Feeding twice or three times a day in small amounts is preferred over large single feedings.. Garlic is bad for fish long term.

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by oseymour

I know I'm going against the grain BUT.

I would just go ahead and add the fish. You don't have anything else in the DT tank so your risk is low. If the fish gets ich, you remove it and treat separately and let the tank run fishless for 2 months, no need to treat the tank.

I don't have a quarantine tank, apartment dweller so no space for it so I have to trust my LFS to quarantine for me.

Ich is not the problem but treating even that in a display tank is problematic.. There are worse parasites, including uronema marinum which would likely require a tank restart. Depends on your risk tolerance. Mine is very low.

[abenak89]

Wait whaaa garlic is bad long term??? So what should i add to food?

[snorvich]

Originally Posted by abenak89

Wait whaaa garlic is bad long term??? So what should i add to food?

Selcon would be one thing, but there are others of a similar nature.

[abenak89]

Little update.

This guy is a PIG!! omg.. I feed when I wake up (all light feedings) around 9am and then when I leave for work around 120pm. This guy will beg for more every single time... today I gave him 2 EXTRA tiny servings.

Servings consist of about 3-5 mysis shrimp and 3-5 blood worms. He eats all that then goes to the top corner and looks up like "yo where the rest?!" so I give in and drop about the same amount. Boom 30 secs later gone. So he does it again and I gave a 3rd serving and plowed through it all...

Sooo I have a question am I feeding too light? How do you judge what to feed? He is in a QT so I don't want to overfeed and have parameter issues but I don't think I am as he is eating 90% of it. Sometimes he spits out like the heads or part of the mysis idk.

Thoughts??

[skiingfast]

I'd be careful about feeding too much. Keep in mind fish will graze all day. It's their nature, find food. They don't stop to drive cars or read a book.



Also if you pretreat something, doesn't that increase the risk?

You don't see it but treat it so it's repressed. Then looks ok so you put it in the Display Tank and then the symptoms come out.

[abenak89]

I used it as a preventive yes. 1st week in QT from the LFS... Monday I will prolly do a big water change 50% and then simply observe for a while.

This fish if freaking awesome though lol omg. Love this guy! He is spunky and fun lol

I will not overfeed. I will keep the feeding the same of 2 light(ish) feedings a day. Hoping some other chime in to get a specific amount I should try to feed or if its just about keeping the fish healthy and happy.. He acts like hes starving at times lol..

[Bent]

I know I'm late to the party here, but I did want to comment about the "looks ok to me" method of treatment.

The problem with simply observing an animal, especially highly predated animals low on the food chain like fish, is that they purposefully hide symptoms until the last possible minute. It is a survival mechanism. In the wild the weakest animal is preyed upon, so it's advantageous to the animal to delay symptoms of disease until the animal is near death. That's why when you actually see a fish visibly ill, it's often much too late to save it. This is why prophylactic treatment is so important.

Humans operate totally opposite to this, which is why it's such a foreign concept to us. It's more advantageous to humans to show disease symptoms early. Early treatment saves us. The quicker we detect an illness, the more likely we are to get over it. As I said before, most prey animals, the quicker they show weakness or illness, the quicker they get eaten.