Alkalinity Buffer Precipitation! Magnesium not low. help

momakmak · 10/03/2016, 06:49 PM

I have been trying to figure this out for months now. I am using Red Sea Fish Pharm ARE22023 Reef Foundation Buffer Supplement-B. Every time I add the buffer it precipitates in the water and starts snowing tiny particulates.

Salinity at 1.025. My calcium is at 400, mag at 1350 (salifert test), and alk usually at 7 - 8. Nitrates and phosphates zero. I have been testing my ph and it seems to be at 8.4 (crappy api test kit). I am pretty certain my test kits are accurate.

What would cause the precipitation???????? Something does seem wrong as I have a plating coral that seems to be bleaching and a birds nest that looks like it is also bleaching. Most lps are doing ok but no growth in the past few months.

I add the smallest of drops and they will precipitate. I used to be able to dump a cap full and it would just disappear into the water column instantly. At one point I raised my magnesium to about 1500 hoping that would help but was unsuccessful.

Could it be too high of ph?

bertoni · 10/03/2016, 08:28 PM

Any time an alkalinity supplement goes into the tank, it's likely to form a bit of a cloud. This article has a picture:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm#5

The picture is for limewater dosing, but the same thing happens with alkalinity supplements. Is this what you are seeing?

momakmak · 10/03/2016, 09:09 PM

Yes, but then it does not dissolve into the water. It starts precipitate into the tank like a giant snow globe. lol

bertoni · 10/03/2016, 10:14 PM

If you stir the blob, does it dissolve? Precipitation into calcium carbonate should be permanent, and it'll show up as a tannish coating on surfaces. Otherwise, you're probably seeing magnesium hydroxide, which will dissolve over time with some agitation.

momakmak · 10/03/2016, 10:51 PM

It eventually disappears. I dont appear to be getting an build up around pumps and heaters.

bertoni · 10/04/2016, 06:43 PM

Okay, that sounds like it's mostly magnesium hydroxide, then. I might add a bit more circulation to redissolve it faster, which also might help with the pumps and heaters.

momakmak · 10/06/2016, 07:52 PM

Just to update everyone. All my parameters were where they were suppose to be except my temperature was at 85F. Some how moving things around the cobalt heater got set to 86F setting. Being in the sump , the full amount of heat did not reach the dt. This could have been catastrophic. I will update when the temperature fall and I get another low alk reading and when I dose some more to see if the high temperature was the cause of the increased precipitation.

Sk8r · 10/06/2016, 09:03 PM

also you can get a snowstorm in separate element dosing if you dose calcium AND buffer within a few hours of each other. I wait 8 hours.

momakmak · 10/06/2016, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

also you can get a snowstorm in separate element dosing if you dose calcium AND buffer within a few hours of each other. I wait 8 hours.

I usually dose hours apart. I believe it has more to do with the temperature. I read that the higher the temperature, the less dissolved oxygen.

bertoni · 10/06/2016, 10:08 PM

Less oxygen will dissolve in hotter water, but that won't directly affect precipitation.

Calcium carbonate precipitation is more common at higher temperatures, but 85 F isn't all that high, and I wouldn't think it'd make that much difference as compared to 82 F or so. Are you referring to the magnesium hydroxide?

10/03/2016, 06:49 PM	#1
momakmak Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13	Alkalinity Buffer Precipitation! Magnesium not low. help I have been trying to figure this out for months now. I am using Red Sea Fish Pharm ARE22023 Reef Foundation Buffer Supplement-B. Every time I add the buffer it precipitates in the water and starts snowing tiny particulates. Salinity at 1.025. My calcium is at 400, mag at 1350 (salifert test), and alk usually at 7 - 8. Nitrates and phosphates zero. I have been testing my ph and it seems to be at 8.4 (crappy api test kit). I am pretty certain my test kits are accurate. What would cause the precipitation???????? Something does seem wrong as I have a plating coral that seems to be bleaching and a birds nest that looks like it is also bleaching. Most lps are doing ok but no growth in the past few months. I add the smallest of drops and they will precipitate. I used to be able to dump a cap full and it would just disappear into the water column instantly. At one point I raised my magnesium to about 1500 hoping that would help but was unsuccessful. Could it be too high of ph?

10/03/2016, 08:28 PM	#2
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Any time an alkalinity supplement goes into the tank, it's likely to form a bit of a cloud. This article has a picture: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-07/rhf/index.htm#5 The picture is for limewater dosing, but the same thing happens with alkalinity supplements. Is this what you are seeing? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/03/2016, 10:14 PM	#4
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	If you stir the blob, does it dissolve? Precipitation into calcium carbonate should be permanent, and it'll show up as a tannish coating on surfaces. Otherwise, you're probably seeing magnesium hydroxide, which will dissolve over time with some agitation. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/04/2016, 06:43 PM	#6
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Okay, that sounds like it's mostly magnesium hydroxide, then. I might add a bit more circulation to redissolve it faster, which also might help with the pumps and heaters. __________________ Jonathan Bertoni

10/06/2016, 09:03 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	also you can get a snowstorm in separate element dosing if you dose calcium AND buffer within a few hours of each other. I wait 8 hours. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

10/03/2016, 09:09 PM	#3
momakmak Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13	Yes, but then it does not dissolve into the water. It starts precipitate into the tank like a giant snow globe. lol

10/03/2016, 10:51 PM	#5
momakmak Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13	It eventually disappears. I dont appear to be getting an build up around pumps and heaters.

10/06/2016, 07:52 PM	#7
momakmak Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: North Carolina Posts: 13	Just to update everyone. All my parameters were where they were suppose to be except my temperature was at 85F. Some how moving things around the cobalt heater got set to 86F setting. Being in the sump , the full amount of heat did not reach the dt. This could have been catastrophic. I will update when the temperature fall and I get another low alk reading and when I dose some more to see if the high temperature was the cause of the increased precipitation.

10/06/2016, 10:08 PM	#10
bertoni RC Mod Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Mountain View, CA, USA Posts: 88,616	Less oxygen will dissolve in hotter water, but that won't directly affect precipitation. Calcium carbonate precipitation is more common at higher temperatures, but 85 F isn't all that high, and I wouldn't think it'd make that much difference as compared to 82 F or so. Are you referring to the magnesium hydroxide? __________________ Jonathan Bertoni