Need some help with basement sump

rob.mwpropane · 10/26/2016, 03:47 PM

Hey guys. I'm interested in installing my sump in the basement. I'm so tired of the tight space to work in, I just want to sit the stump on top of a stand in the basement and have all the room to work. With that said, I have a few questions.

1.) I'm interested in a DC pump to save on electricity. It's my understanding I need 5x tank turnover through sump. I'm going up 10' and over maybe 6' or so. Am I right in thinking a Deepwater Aquatics BLDC7 would do the job? It seems as though the BLDC8 can pump 1500+ gallons at 10'? Is this accurate? And at 67 watts, that's amazing.

I have a 180 with an eheim 1260 or 1262 in sump, and 2 MP40wES in the display. So, I just need the BLDC to circulate water through the sump.

2.) I did find one thread on here about making an extension for the pump, but when I asked him he hasn't finished. Has anyone done that (so I could have the control upstairs). Not absolutely necessary, but would like it like that.

3.) Can't think of my other question.....

mcgyvr · 10/26/2016, 05:29 PM

From the flow vs head chart it looks to be around 1200GPH at 10' of head..
I personally don't know about the quality of them,etc.... Its just another Chinese DC pump..
I suspect they are just fine..

making an extension should be simple.. Just need to cut/splice to extend the wires.. or make an extension cable..

rob.mwpropane · 10/26/2016, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

From the flow vs head chart it looks to be around 1200GPH at 10' of head..
I personally don't know about the quality of them,etc.... Its just another Chinese DC pump..
I suspect they are just fine..

making an extension should be simple.. Just need to cut/splice to extend the wires.. or make an extension cable..

Thanks for the reply. (I was looking at BLDC8 for 1500 gph @ 10') I just can't imagine that I'll get that much more for that much less wattage. I think I'll go with a bigger DC pump, and just turn it way down to get the desired flow.

Does anyone have experience running these pumps at a higher head? (I've seen a few reports online, but nothing concrete on RC)

Any recommendations for size pipe? (I know the inlet / outlet size) I know with pools we try to upsize the line (better efficiency), but I don't know the rule of thumb with DC pumps, let alone 10' head....

Thanks all.

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 04:17 AM

Thursday morning bump, any recommendations? Thanks.

Breadman03 · 10/27/2016, 06:46 AM

In all honesty, I don't think that there is much electricity savings to be had in switching to DC. I saw a notable drop in my usage when I switched, but that was because my AC pump was just way oversized for my system. Now, talk to me about noise reduction and it's a huge difference.

As far as making an extended cable:

I use an Apex, so I effectively have that for my return. I ran 1.5" plumbing to my basement and it worked great with my Blueline 70, but I kept having snails get stuck when I switched to my dialed down RD3 230. My gate valve was just closed too far for them to pass through when they got sucked in. I made maybe a half dozen changes to my flow to bump it up so that I could open my gate valve more and allow snails to pass through and haven/t touched it since. I spent a little more time adjusting my gate valve because I use my open channel pipe to feed my fuge.

Because I've spent maybe an hour in total adjusting my return and drain, I wouldn't bother making an extended cable. It would be handy, but I think that it would take more time to make than it would save.

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breadman03

In all honesty, I don't think that there is much electricity savings to be had in switching to DC.

I have an eheim 1262, which is 80 watts, only does 300 gph@ 10'.

The BLDC5, which is 33.6 watts, does closer to 1000 gph@ 10'. (which is not what I need so I'll be turning it down even more = less wattage.

The thing is, I need a new pump to get up from the basement. If I need a new pump, I'd like to go with a more efficient one is all I'm saying. I know it's not going to save enough to plan a vacation, but if I can save more $, and still move the sump in the basement, it will help me sleep way better at night. I'm frugal....I know...I picked the wrong hobby...

Eheim @ .14 cents/kw is $8.06/mo, or $98.11/year
BLDC5 @ .14 cents/kw is $3.39/mo, or $41.21/year (and again, this is full blast, which I don't need, so less watts will be used)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Breadman03

Because I've spent maybe an hour in total adjusting my return and drain, I wouldn't bother making an extended cable. It would be handy, but I think that it would take more time to make than it would save.

I agree, I thought about this yesterday. The way it is I'll have to go back and forth a few times to get it set where I want. It would be nice to be able to hit the stop button to feed, but I don't do that now with the current pump. I hope to at some point get a controller, and then it could be done from my phone weather I'm upstairs or down...

GQuinn · 10/27/2016, 02:41 PM

BLDC are nice pumps. I seriously doubt you will get 1000 gph at 10 feet, no matter what the charts show you. I tried a BLDC 10 on my basement sump with a 1" return at about 10 feet and only got 500 gph at full power. Your plumbing will have an impact on your flow and everyone's system is different.

mcgyvr · 10/27/2016, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob.mwpropane

Eheim @ .14 cents/kw is $8.06/mo, or $98.11/year
BLDC5 @ .14 cents/kw is $3.39/mo, or $41.21/year (and again, this is full blast, which I don't need, so less watts will be used)
.

ha ha.. look at you just providing real facts to shut that down...
:thumbsup

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GQuinn

BLDC are nice pumps. I seriously doubt you will get 1000 gph at 10 feet, no matter what the charts show you. I tried a BLDC 10 on my basement sump with a 1" return at about 10 feet and only got 500 gph at full power. Your plumbing will have an impact on your flow and everyone's system is different.

That's what I'm looking for! Real world experience. Although I'd say you choked it a good bit with 1". Isn't the outlet 1.5"?

I'm only looking for about ~ 700 gph. My skimmer currently has a sedra 5000 (500gph) on it. Honestly, I'm not sure the point to having anything more than the skimmer can handle, but they say 3-5 times turnover through sump. 180x4=720

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

ha ha.. look at you just providing real facts to shut that down...
:thumbsup

I appreciate the thumbs up, but not really trying to shut anyone down. It looks good on paper, but that doesn't always carry to real world stuff. With that said, I'm 100% sure this will save a good chunk on electricity.

I've seen one post say "no good for head" then the next I read says "14' up, works great, and don't even have it full blast"

Is there just not enough people that have tried them out? Or that care to comment?

mcgyvr · 10/27/2016, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob.mwpropane

Although I'd say you choked it a good bit with 1". Isn't the outlet 1.5"?

You are on the ball tonight..

They put a 1.5" for a reason.. Don't follow that and the charts don't apply..

Potatohead · 10/27/2016, 05:44 PM

Is there a budget? I'd probably do a Waveline DC10000ii, any more than that I'd probably just buy an EcoTech.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Waveline_...FIPHAD-vi.html

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 05:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

You are on the ball tonight..

They put a 1.5" for a reason.. Don't follow that and the charts don't apply..

I agree about the charts not applying. Direct from the manual;

"IMPORTANT: The diameter of the pipe connected to the pump inlet and outlet should not be reduced. Reduce pipe at the very last moment in your plumbing setup."

I think the only way to know is to buy one and test it. I have a kilowatt meter, I'll just have to figure a way to pump it up 10' for a specified amount of time through 1.5" and measure the volume while connected to the kilowatt meter. Thank God for Amazon, if it doesn't work, send it back. I'll have to call the manufacturer tomorrow to pow wow.

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 06:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatohead

Is there a budget? I'd probably do a Waveline DC10000ii, any more than that I'd probably just buy an EcoTech.

http://www.marinedepot.com/Waveline_...FIPHAD-vi.html

Any reasons why waveline? I'm open to whatever ~ I'm not sure my budget. It depends on what's great all around. I think ecotech is a little pricey for a pump that I'll most likely never change speed, lol. I thought about a manifold to run other stuff (and consequently change flow) but I only have a gfo (sometimes), and a skimmer.

Potatohead · 10/27/2016, 06:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rob.mwpropane

Any reasons why waveline? I'm open to whatever ~ I'm not sure my budget. It depends on what's great all around. I think ecotech is a little pricey for a pump that I'll most likely never change speed, lol. I thought about a manifold to run other stuff (and consequently change flow) but I only have a gfo (sometimes), and a skimmer.

If you're thinking about running a manifold, buy one size larger pump than you think you'll need. You can always turn it down.

I just have a preference for Waveline, they make very good pumps and they are a Canadian company I like to support. I also think their flow specs are more realistic than the Deepwater stuff... Although in all honestly it wouldn't surprise me if they use some of the same parts.

kc350twin · 10/27/2016, 07:12 PM

Man I am interested in the out come. I want to replace my Mag 18 and have about the same head height. 1.5" from top to bottom and I only get 900gph ish. At 150watts. I tried the reducing pipe size at the last section and the reduction in flow is massive. I realize it's two different style pumps but the largest nozzle I could find is 3/4 inch so I scrapped it and just used 1.5" sink trap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 07:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatohead

If you're thinking about running a manifold, buy one size larger pump than you think you'll need. You can always turn it down.

I just have a preference for Waveline, they make very good pumps and they are a Canadian company I like to support. I also think their flow specs are more realistic than the Deepwater stuff... Although in all honestly it wouldn't surprise me if they use some of the same parts.

Good stuff, I'll look into them.

rob.mwpropane · 10/27/2016, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kc350twin

Man I am interested in the out come. I want to replace my Mag 18 and have about the same head height. 1.5" from top to bottom and I only get 900gph ish. At 150watts. I tried the reducing pipe size at the last section and the reduction in flow is massive. I realize it's two different style pumps but the largest nozzle I could find is 3/4 inch so I scrapped it and just used 1.5" sink trap.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Please don't hold your breath, I'm just researching for all this. Although I could probably order a BLDC 5 or 7 and run the test. If it matches up with the chart, at least we'd know the chart was accurate and could assume the rest of the pumps are. (At least for Deepwater), I could even go further and test more...

Of course, it would only be relevant for what it does out of the box. It doesn't say anything about the longevity, or what buildup would do to its efficiency.

rob.mwpropane · 10/29/2016, 08:27 AM

(I have searched), does anybody know if any of the the other pumps besides Jebao and Ecotech can be controlled by a controller? I've been leaning more towards the Reef Angel for a while, but I'd like to be able to control the DC pump.

I don't mind splicing, or taking something apart to mod it to work. Just haven't found anything...

Thanks

Breadman03 · 10/29/2016, 12:20 PM

Royal Exclusiv RD's. you can also check out Neptune's site. They have a list of Apex Ready devices, and I think there was a handful of returns listed that use a 0-10V input.

10/26/2016, 03:47 PM	#1
rob.mwpropane Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 371	Need some help with basement sump Hey guys. I'm interested in installing my sump in the basement. I'm so tired of the tight space to work in, I just want to sit the stump on top of a stand in the basement and have all the room to work. With that said, I have a few questions. 1.) I'm interested in a DC pump to save on electricity. It's my understanding I need 5x tank turnover through sump. I'm going up 10' and over maybe 6' or so. Am I right in thinking a Deepwater Aquatics BLDC7 would do the job? It seems as though the BLDC8 can pump 1500+ gallons at 10'? Is this accurate? And at 67 watts, that's amazing. I have a 180 with an eheim 1260 or 1262 in sump, and 2 MP40wES in the display. So, I just need the BLDC to circulate water through the sump. 2.) I did find one thread on here about making an extension for the pump, but when I asked him he hasn't finished. Has anyone done that (so I could have the control upstairs). Not absolutely necessary, but would like it like that. 3.) Can't think of my other question.....

10/26/2016, 05:29 PM	#2
mcgyvr Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: North Carolina Posts: 20,050	From the flow vs head chart it looks to be around 1200GPH at 10' of head.. I personally don't know about the quality of them,etc.... Its just another Chinese DC pump.. I suspect they are just fine.. making an extension should be simple.. Just need to cut/splice to extend the wires.. or make an extension cable.. __________________ Who me?

10/27/2016, 07:12 PM	#16
kc350twin Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Severn, MD Posts: 1,579	Man I am interested in the out come. I want to replace my Mag 18 and have about the same head height. 1.5" from top to bottom and I only get 900gph ish. At 150watts. I tried the reducing pipe size at the last section and the reduction in flow is massive. I realize it's two different style pumps but the largest nozzle I could find is 3/4 inch so I scrapped it and just used 1.5" sink trap. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk __________________ 112g Cube 36x36x20= Custom 12x39wPower Module (Par Monster)= Neptune Apex=ATB 840v2=BM Doser= 2 MP-40's

10/27/2016, 04:17 AM	#4
rob.mwpropane Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 371	Thursday morning bump, any recommendations? Thanks.

10/27/2016, 06:46 AM	#5
Breadman03 New Old School Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Luzerne County, PA Posts: 3,293	In all honesty, I don't think that there is much electricity savings to be had in switching to DC. I saw a notable drop in my usage when I switched, but that was because my AC pump was just way oversized for my system. Now, talk to me about noise reduction and it's a huge difference. As far as making an extended cable: I use an Apex, so I effectively have that for my return. I ran 1.5" plumbing to my basement and it worked great with my Blueline 70, but I kept having snails get stuck when I switched to my dialed down RD3 230. My gate valve was just closed too far for them to pass through when they got sucked in. I made maybe a half dozen changes to my flow to bump it up so that I could open my gate valve more and allow snails to pass through and haven/t touched it since. I spent a little more time adjusting my gate valve because I use my open channel pipe to feed my fuge. Because I've spent maybe an hour in total adjusting my return and drain, I wouldn't bother making an extended cable. It would be handy, but I think that it would take more time to make than it would save.

10/27/2016, 02:41 PM	#7
GQuinn Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2005 Location: Indiana Posts: 982	BLDC are nice pumps. I seriously doubt you will get 1000 gph at 10 feet, no matter what the charts show you. I tried a BLDC 10 on my basement sump with a 1" return at about 10 feet and only got 500 gph at full power. Your plumbing will have an impact on your flow and everyone's system is different.

10/27/2016, 05:44 PM	#12
Potatohead Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,596	Is there a budget? I'd probably do a Waveline DC10000ii, any more than that I'd probably just buy an EcoTech. http://www.marinedepot.com/Waveline_...FIPHAD-vi.html

10/29/2016, 08:27 AM	#19
rob.mwpropane Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2008 Location: Maryland Posts: 371	(I have searched), does anybody know if any of the the other pumps besides Jebao and Ecotech can be controlled by a controller? I've been leaning more towards the Reef Angel for a while, but I'd like to be able to control the DC pump. I don't mind splicing, or taking something apart to mod it to work. Just haven't found anything... Thanks

10/29/2016, 12:20 PM	#20
Breadman03 New Old School Join Date: Feb 2012 Location: Luzerne County, PA Posts: 3,293	Royal Exclusiv RD's. you can also check out Neptune's site. They have a list of Apex Ready devices, and I think there was a handful of returns listed that use a 0-10V input.