inverts and fish meds

Tooboot · 12/01/2016, 08:19 AM

looking for some advice and guidance.

I know I need a QT but not there yet and felt for the first addition I would take those chances.

I finally got around to adding some livestock to the tank. I picked up some snails (11 varying varieties), a conch, two scarlet crabs, and a peppermint shrimp, and a clown fish.

The store owner advised me not to dump the fish water in the tank because it was medicated for travel and transfer reasons.

I took my time and acclimated appropriately and was taking care to add the clownfish separately in a different bucket to net him out and not add the water. the problem is my 3 year old thought he would help and dumped the water from the bucket into my sump. I hadn't clued in until I was heading to bed.

This morning, I couldn't find the shrimp, and only saw a piece of what looked like the tail. I also can't find one of the crabs.

I am wondering what effect and to what extent adding the medicated water will affect the inverts in the tank (a 46g bowfront with a 20g sump)? Which inverts will be affected and which will not? what should I do (thinking a number of water changes to reduce the medication in the water)? could the shrimp be molting this quickly or is it just gone?

Tooboot · 12/01/2016, 08:54 AM

to add to my questions, what impact will it have on my tank. Am I looking at a tank breakdown and having to clean everything thoroughly (and with what) to eliminate any trace of the meds.

I've emailed the seller to confirm what meds were used, will provide updates ASAP.

scooter31707 · 12/01/2016, 12:31 PM

What type of meds was it? I might be wrong, but the majority of meds are harmful in some form of fashion to inverts. I would recommend during about 3 water changes at 20 gallons each to try and get it out or run some carbon.

Sk8r · 12/01/2016, 12:45 PM

Call your store and ask the name of the chemicals or meds if you have to chase the answer up the chain to higher offices. Carbon can suck up some things. PolyFilter can remove others, etc. Your tank isn't likely ruined, but you do need some knowledge of what went in.

BlackTip · 12/01/2016, 12:54 PM

I have never heard of that before. Some stores add low dose of copper to their holding tanks. Invert and coral don't tolerate copper. It is a very bad idea to add store water to the tank, because it is almost guarantee that it is not free from disease.

Sk8r · 12/01/2016, 01:04 PM

PetSmart or is it PetCo? uses some sort of blue fluid in shipping at least freshwater fish: the local one had a disaster when a new employee opened all the bags and let the shipping water mix into the system---this is what an employee told me, at least. So it may depend on source. I have no idea whether that was confined to freshwater or what [methylene blue comes to mind, of freshwater meds] ---but the invert dieoff in this case would indicate copper, which could also affect tank bacteria and cause a mini-cycle.

I would certainly try to get a decisive answer in the OP's tank, take measures, and go very slow in adding specimens in case the sandbed has been partially killed off: you get the spike in biowaste as well as the effect of the pollutant.

Tooboot · 12/01/2016, 01:50 PM

Thanks everyone,

I've sent an email to the seller today. this guy has a good reputation in the area, and did advise me not to put the water in the tank. had I been monitoring my son a bit more when I was adding livestock I would have stopped him (a very stressful lesson learned, and pushing me to get the QT set up sooner). he has a day job so I assume I will know more tonight.

I don't plan on adding any more livestock for a few month. This was part of my original stocking plan as I do want to take it slow.

I went to the LFS today (not where I bought the livestock) and explained my issue. they also recommended PolyFilter once I know more about what has been added, but are currently out of stock. for the time being I'll do a couple of water changes in the next few days.

I was also worried about the impact on my bacteria in the tank and the adverse effect it would have on that. more tests in the near future will help determine this impact.

I do want to highlight that this was not a chain LFS, but rather someone who deals solely in marine aquariums and almost exclusively selling livestock (very little dry goods), has an excellent reputation and definitely seems knowledgeable.

on the bright side, the clownfish seems to be doing well. swimming around and checking everything out. even went after the pellets I put in this morning (bought some frozen mysis this afternoon for dinner).

are some inverts more affected by the meds or copper than others. would my trochus snails fair better than the crabs or peppermint shrimp?

Sk8r · 12/01/2016, 03:23 PM

As a rule of thumb, fish die of: overdose of copper. Ammonia at any level. Wrong salinity. Too fast a salinity change. Overdose of med.
Corals and inverts die of: any copper. Wrong salinity. Too fast a change. Many meds. Too much nitrate [inverts generally tolerate what corals won't]. Corals and inverts generally survive ammonia that would kill fish.

Any time something went into your tank that you suspect is harmful, a carbon bag in the water flow is a good idea.

Tooboot · 12/01/2016, 03:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

As a rule of thumb, fish die of: overdose of copper. Ammonia at any level. Wrong salinity. Too fast a salinity change. Overdose of med.
Corals and inverts die of: any copper. Wrong salinity. Too fast a change. Many meds. Too much nitrate [inverts generally tolerate what corals won't]. Corals and inverts generally survive ammonia that would kill fish.

Any time something went into your tank that you suspect is harmful, a carbon bag in the water flow is a good idea.

carbon bag as a start to my issues it is then.

thanks for all of your help.

this was the response from where I got the livestock.

milafix, preafix and possibly traces of copper. I would recommend stopping in to see me or I can ship a poly filter and cupisorb.

Tooboot · 12/04/2016, 09:38 PM

Update
Shrimp is fine, found him scurrying across the bottom. No loses yet. No big among a spike either (0.1). Everything else in check. Ordered a copper test, will only come in after the cuprisorb. But I'll be able to test tank conditions after this blunder and plan a friend for the first shrimp.

12/01/2016, 08:19 AM	#1
Tooboot Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada Posts: 198	inverts and fish meds looking for some advice and guidance. I know I need a QT but not there yet and felt for the first addition I would take those chances. I finally got around to adding some livestock to the tank. I picked up some snails (11 varying varieties), a conch, two scarlet crabs, and a peppermint shrimp, and a clown fish. The store owner advised me not to dump the fish water in the tank because it was medicated for travel and transfer reasons. I took my time and acclimated appropriately and was taking care to add the clownfish separately in a different bucket to net him out and not add the water. the problem is my 3 year old thought he would help and dumped the water from the bucket into my sump. I hadn't clued in until I was heading to bed. This morning, I couldn't find the shrimp, and only saw a piece of what looked like the tail. I also can't find one of the crabs. I am wondering what effect and to what extent adding the medicated water will affect the inverts in the tank (a 46g bowfront with a 20g sump)? Which inverts will be affected and which will not? what should I do (thinking a number of water changes to reduce the medication in the water)? could the shrimp be molting this quickly or is it just gone?

12/01/2016, 12:45 PM	#4
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Call your store and ask the name of the chemicals or meds if you have to chase the answer up the chain to higher offices. Carbon can suck up some things. PolyFilter can remove others, etc. Your tank isn't likely ruined, but you do need some knowledge of what went in. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

12/01/2016, 12:54 PM	#5
BlackTip Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2015 Posts: 1,598	I have never heard of that before. Some stores add low dose of copper to their holding tanks. Invert and coral don't tolerate copper. It is a very bad idea to add store water to the tank, because it is almost guarantee that it is not free from disease. __________________ 325G DT. 100G sump. In-sump refugium. SRO-5000SSS. 2 Gyres 150. 2 Water Blaster HY-5000. 2 Razor 320W. Apex Gold. MR2 GFO. 2 800W Heaters. Tunze Osmolater. 2 20g-long QT tanks. Geo 624 CA. 80W UV

12/01/2016, 01:04 PM	#6
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	PetSmart or is it PetCo? uses some sort of blue fluid in shipping at least freshwater fish: the local one had a disaster when a new employee opened all the bags and let the shipping water mix into the system---this is what an employee told me, at least. So it may depend on source. I have no idea whether that was confined to freshwater or what [methylene blue comes to mind, of freshwater meds] ---but the invert dieoff in this case would indicate copper, which could also affect tank bacteria and cause a mini-cycle. I would certainly try to get a decisive answer in the OP's tank, take measures, and go very slow in adding specimens in case the sandbed has been partially killed off: you get the spike in biowaste as well as the effect of the pollutant. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

12/01/2016, 03:23 PM	#8
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	As a rule of thumb, fish die of: overdose of copper. Ammonia at any level. Wrong salinity. Too fast a salinity change. Overdose of med. Corals and inverts die of: any copper. Wrong salinity. Too fast a change. Many meds. Too much nitrate [inverts generally tolerate what corals won't]. Corals and inverts generally survive ammonia that would kill fish. Any time something went into your tank that you suspect is harmful, a carbon bag in the water flow is a good idea. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

12/01/2016, 08:54 AM	#2
Tooboot Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada Posts: 198	to add to my questions, what impact will it have on my tank. Am I looking at a tank breakdown and having to clean everything thoroughly (and with what) to eliminate any trace of the meds. I've emailed the seller to confirm what meds were used, will provide updates ASAP.

12/01/2016, 12:31 PM	#3
scooter31707 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,971	What type of meds was it? I might be wrong, but the majority of meds are harmful in some form of fashion to inverts. I would recommend during about 3 water changes at 20 gallons each to try and get it out or run some carbon.

12/01/2016, 01:50 PM	#7
Tooboot Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada Posts: 198	Thanks everyone, I've sent an email to the seller today. this guy has a good reputation in the area, and did advise me not to put the water in the tank. had I been monitoring my son a bit more when I was adding livestock I would have stopped him (a very stressful lesson learned, and pushing me to get the QT set up sooner). he has a day job so I assume I will know more tonight. I don't plan on adding any more livestock for a few month. This was part of my original stocking plan as I do want to take it slow. I went to the LFS today (not where I bought the livestock) and explained my issue. they also recommended PolyFilter once I know more about what has been added, but are currently out of stock. for the time being I'll do a couple of water changes in the next few days. I was also worried about the impact on my bacteria in the tank and the adverse effect it would have on that. more tests in the near future will help determine this impact. I do want to highlight that this was not a chain LFS, but rather someone who deals solely in marine aquariums and almost exclusively selling livestock (very little dry goods), has an excellent reputation and definitely seems knowledgeable. on the bright side, the clownfish seems to be doing well. swimming around and checking everything out. even went after the pellets I put in this morning (bought some frozen mysis this afternoon for dinner). are some inverts more affected by the meds or copper than others. would my trochus snails fair better than the crabs or peppermint shrimp?

12/04/2016, 09:38 PM	#10
Tooboot Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Eastern Ontario, Canada Posts: 198	Update Shrimp is fine, found him scurrying across the bottom. No loses yet. No big among a spike either (0.1). Everything else in check. Ordered a copper test, will only come in after the cuprisorb. But I'll be able to test tank conditions after this blunder and plan a friend for the first shrimp.