DIY battery backup?? - Page 2

uncleof6 · 05/03/2014, 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TimmyD16

Actually, especially when talking about inductive loads, of which the motors we use in our aquariums are literally a text-book example, there is a lot more that goes into power draw than P=IV... But since it involves some imaginary numbers I don't really want to get into the math....

Well complex (imaginary) numbers are represented with the letter i (or j since this is electrical where i is current) which is the square root of -1. Although the power factor is a unitless number between -1 and 1, I have yet to use anything more than just simple pythagorean theorem, and some light trigonometry--for load calculations...if I come up with the result 3-2j, (pulled out of thin air) I am going to go back because I made an error somewhere. Added in is the power factor which is simply the cosine of the impedance phase angle. (ratio between true power and apparent power.) These calculations are some of the least intimidating I can think of...

Losses in the inverter are due to power factor,

Greysoul · 05/03/2014, 03:28 PM

how about water batteries, radio decay batteries, suspended mass, super capacitors, compressed air, or flywheels?

:P

Reefvet · 05/03/2014, 04:42 PM

But I have discharged them many times. I live on the coast in Southern California where the power goes out many times a year. I've discharged them to near exhaustion, 12% according to the battery specialist I have check twice annually. I took them when they were discharged for that very reason. So that I knew the facts.

Despite your opinion and/or experience my Optima yellow top is living up to the promises of the manufacturer and has for more than 5 years. In fact the current one is on 8 years and it just checked out. Maybe because it's on a constant trickle charge from the Tripp Lite.

The only error I made was describing it as a marine battery, that's the blue top I have in my boat. I use the yellow top for the UPS. It's a CAR battery.

I'm speaking from experience. I have no need to be right. Just telling you my experience.

Reefvet · 05/03/2014, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greysoul

how about water batteries, radio decay batteries, suspended mass, super capacitors, compressed air, or flywheels?

:P

How about those things ?

What in hell do they have to do with this discussion ?

Or you just forgot to put down the bong before posting ?

mighties_keeper · 05/03/2014, 08:24 PM

Harbor freight sells a 1200 watt generator for a couple hundred bucks. Should run your tank with out a problem.

uncleof6 · 05/03/2014, 09:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mighties_keeper

Harbor freight sells a 1200 watt generator for a couple hundred bucks. Should run your tank with out a problem.

Have to say that is the best option out of all of them. Especially when a person does not really know what they are doing.

Greysoul · 05/03/2014, 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefvet

How about those things ?

What in hell do they have to do with this discussion ?

Or you just forgot to put down the bong before posting ?

No bong involved.

Point is, there's virtually unlimited ways to store and convert energy - a DIY car battery back up isn't a good long term solution, but yeah, in a pinch... if it's everything in the tank starts to die, or I ruin a $100 pump with dirty power... I know what I'm gonna do.

Also, of those options I mentioned, a radio decay battery would be awesome - higher energy density than any conventional battery, can run for decades with no service or refueling, they're compact...and used in marine environments already.

I mean at this point the thread seems to be a semantic argument about who knows more about batteries, right?

TimmyD16 · 05/04/2014, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greysoul

I mean at this point the thread seems to be a semantic argument about who knows more about batteries, right?

What a STUPID thought! You are completely derailing this thread off the topic of how I know the most about batteries...

Reefvet · 05/04/2014, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greysoul

... a DIY car battery back up isn't a good long term solution, but yeah, in a pinch... if it's everything in the tank starts to die, or I ruin a $100 pump with dirty power... I know what I'm gonna do.

My DIY car battery isn't using a conventional car battery, I explained that. A deep discharge battery designed for repeated use, discharge to nearly depleted level and then recharge is. I've used this method with the correct battery for over a decade. Haven't lost a pump, or anything else yet.

As I stated, the Tripp Lite UPS produces a very clean, near perfect sine wave and it's not dirty power. It's without line noise or minimal voltage or current variations which is better than the A.C that's running your tank right now.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greysoul

I mean at this point the thread seems to be a semantic argument about who knows more about batteries, right?

What's it's about for you I can't say. I've offered a tested and effective scenario that I have first hand, long term, successful experience with. I really haven't said much about batteries other than that there are some 'car' batteries, at least the same form factor as a car battery, that will work. I've also explained why, referenced sources that substantiate my point by linking to the actual equipment used and above all I was trying to help.

The other methods of energy storage you refer to have no practical, readily available, or costs effective application for the hobbyist, valid methods or not.

Reefvet · 05/04/2014, 09:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by uncleof6

Have to say that is the best option out of all of them. Especially when a person does not really know what they are doing.

I have a 2KW Honda generator in the garage. It's designed to produce a clean enough wave form to run electronics. During the Northridge earthquake years ago I put gas in it every 4 hours and kept my reef tanks alive. I aslo kept my fridge running, which was a nice convenience as well.

cjm5283 · 05/05/2014, 10:47 AM

Why couldn't a 12V sealed lead acid battery work? They are used in wheelchairs that are indoors and sustain long small uses over and over. Couldn't you use a DPDT relay to turn on a DC to AC inverter during a loss of power? Have the battery hooked onto a smart charger?

uncleof6 · 05/05/2014, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm5283

Why couldn't a 12V sealed lead acid battery work? They are used in wheelchairs that are indoors and sustain long small uses over and over. Couldn't you use a DPDT relay to turn on a DC to AC inverter during a loss of power? Have the battery hooked onto a smart charger?

There are many options, many of which are bad ideas...LA batteries are the absolute worst choice for any of this.

Reefvet · 05/05/2014, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cjm5283

Why couldn't a 12V sealed lead acid battery work?

Computer UPS systems use SLA batteries. They work well but don't typically have a long run time. If you only need to get through brownouts and short term power loss they work just fine.

They are undoubtedly the most common solution for aquarium power backups because they're readily available.

Ecotech offers a battery backup for their popular MP10/40/60 series. They use SLA batteries and work great because they're not going through the DC/AC conversion process.

MrShark · 01/17/2017, 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Reefvet

I have a 2KW Honda generator in the garage. It's designed to produce a clean enough wave form to run electronics. During the Northridge earthquake years ago I put gas in it every 4 hours and kept my reef tanks alive. I aslo kept my fridge running, which was a nice convenience as well.

High five buddy)

got the same Honda EU2000I. How much gasoline does urs eats? Few monthes ago, per hole day I floded 0,5 gal.
I don'r wanna to lie but here full guide list for Honda - https://www.bestadvisor.com/portable-generators

05/03/2014, 03:28 PM	#27
Greysoul Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Albuquerque, NM Posts: 158	how about water batteries, radio decay batteries, suspended mass, super capacitors, compressed air, or flywheels? :P

05/03/2014, 04:42 PM	#28
Reefvet Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Southern California Posts: 1,941	But I have discharged them many times. I live on the coast in Southern California where the power goes out many times a year. I've discharged them to near exhaustion, 12% according to the battery specialist I have check twice annually. I took them when they were discharged for that very reason. So that I knew the facts. Despite your opinion and/or experience my Optima yellow top is living up to the promises of the manufacturer and has for more than 5 years. In fact the current one is on 8 years and it just checked out. Maybe because it's on a constant trickle charge from the Tripp Lite. The only error I made was describing it as a marine battery, that's the blue top I have in my boat. I use the yellow top for the UPS. It's a CAR battery. I'm speaking from experience. I have no need to be right. Just telling you my experience.

05/03/2014, 08:24 PM	#30
mighties_keeper Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: Flint, Mi Posts: 71	Harbor freight sells a 1200 watt generator for a couple hundred bucks. Should run your tank with out a problem.

05/05/2014, 10:47 AM	#36
cjm5283 Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2013 Location: Tulsa, OK Posts: 70	Why couldn't a 12V sealed lead acid battery work? They are used in wheelchairs that are indoors and sustain long small uses over and over. Couldn't you use a DPDT relay to turn on a DC to AC inverter during a loss of power? Have the battery hooked onto a smart charger?