Closed Loop System - Page 3

Malign Reefer · 02/01/2017, 02:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

Let's say you had an external pump sitting in the bottom of your stand and you drilled two holes in the bottom of the tank. Plumb one hole to the inlet of the pump, and plumb the other hole to the outlet. When the pump is running, you will create circulation in your tank.....closed loop, and the water is never exposed to air.
And I would never even consider it unless the tank was huge, ..... and even having said that I probably still wouldn't do it.

I hear ya, I just hate looking at power-heads and wires... I'm IT and I hate wires!!!

heathlindner25 · 02/01/2017, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malign Reefer

I hear ya, I just hate looking at power-heads and wires... I'm IT and I hate wires!!!

I have a hard time sleeping with holes drilled in the bottom of my tank.

But if you do decide to do it, I would look into schedule 80 bulkheads and plumbing.

Malign Reefer · 02/01/2017, 02:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

I have a hard time sleeping with holes drilled in the bottom of my tank.

But if you do decide to do it, I would look into schedule 80 bulkheads and plumbing.

And I travel frequently as well, so I hear you on that one for sure.

ca1ore · 02/01/2017, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roli112

I think you are completely confused

A closed loop does nothing for filtration strictly for water movement, water come out a hole through the pump and back to tank, no sump or anything like that.

.... think you are confused as well

A closed loop is simply any pump/plumbing where the suction side is located in the same physical body of water as the return. What one chooses to put in the closed circuit, be it a flow diverter, sealed canister modules (i.e Nu-Clear), etc., is immaterial. It's still a closed loop. The reality is, most folks don't put filtration into the loop (at least, not anymore).

ca1ore · 02/01/2017, 03:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malign Reefer

Well shoot, I'm at a crossroad now.... CL or OL

As folks have tried to explain, it isn't one or the other. Here is a photo of my tank before it got totally overgrown.

Closed Loop

Along the rear back you see three bulkheads. They are plugged in the photo, but the middle one is the suction the right and left are returns. PVC pipe runs from the center suction to my Vectra pump, which in turn feeds an ocean-motions diverter that alternates flow between the two returns. Each return has a penductor inside the tank to broaden flow. I have no filtration in the closed loop because it is solely for circulation/flow. An alternative or supplement to a CL would be in tank power heads like vortceh or tunze.

Open Loop/Sump System

Tank has two corner overflows that feed drains to the sump. Drains are not airtight. External pump returns water from the sump to the tank, pumping against height/head pressure. While the return from the sump certainly can add to in-tank circulation, it is not a particularly efficient way to achieve flow. Sump serves many purposes, including filtration, place for skimmer, heaters, etc. You certainly can run a tank without a sump, though I cannot imagine why one would choose to.

So, it is NOT either/or for CL and OL.

ReefKeeper64 · 02/01/2017, 04:03 PM

The OP is kicking around the idea of whether to incorporate a CL into his design or not.

heathlindner25 · 02/01/2017, 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

As folks have tried to explain, it isn't one or the other. Here is a photo of my tank before it got totally overgrown.

Closed Loop

Along the rear back you see three bulkheads. They are plugged in the photo, but the middle one is the suction the right and left are returns. PVC pipe runs from the center suction to my Vectra pump, which in turn feeds an ocean-motions diverter that alternates flow between the two returns. Each return has a penductor inside the tank to broaden flow. I have no filtration in the closed loop because it is solely for circulation/flow. An alternative or supplement to a CL would be in tank power heads like vortceh or tunze.

Open Loop/Sump System

Tank has two corner overflows that feed drains to the sump. Drains are not airtight. External pump returns water from the sump to the tank, pumping against height/head pressure. While the return from the sump certainly can add to in-tank circulation, it is not a particularly efficient way to achieve flow. Sump serves many purposes, including filtration, place for skimmer, heaters, etc. You certainly can run a tank without a sump, though I cannot imagine why one would choose to.

So, it is NOT either/or for CL and OL.

Those holes seem safe enough to avoid a full tank drain.

ca1ore · 02/01/2017, 07:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

Those holes seem safe enough to avoid a full tank drain.

Exactly! Was not the case in my prior tank though.

Malign Reefer · 02/01/2017, 08:08 PM

I have make up my mind, going with regular return and 4 Ecotec MP60's and not drilling the bottom of the tank.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

heathlindner25 · 02/01/2017, 08:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malign Reefer

I have make up my mind, going with regular return and 4 Ecotec MP60's and not drilling the bottom of the tank.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

How big a tank you doing?

heathlindner25 · 02/01/2017, 08:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Exactly! Was not the case in my prior tank though.

Holes in the bottom of a tank scare the crap out of me.

Malign Reefer · 02/01/2017, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

How big a tank you doing?

600 gallon, 2 center overflows

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Malign Reefer · 02/02/2017, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Malign Reefer

600 gallon, 2 center overflows

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk

And 75 gallon sump

heathlindner25 · 02/02/2017, 11:32 AM

Sounds great! We love pictures.

Malign Reefer · 02/02/2017, 01:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

Sounds great! We love pictures.

I can't wait until they start building it. The largest I have had was a 220 gallon, this thing is going to be a monster.

ca1ore · 02/02/2017, 05:22 PM

May want to consider a bigger sump. My 265 started out with a 75 as sump, until it got too small. Now I use a 150.

roli112 · 02/02/2017, 08:52 PM

Thats what I was thinking, are you doing an external skimmer?

Malign Reefer · 02/03/2017, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roli112

Thats what I was thinking, are you doing an external skimmer?

Yes, I'm having Jeff at ReefLife build me a VS3-60, 60" tall and a sump. Plus I have a 100 gallon stock tank with live rock plumbed into the system, I forgot to say that in the above post.

Malign Reefer · 02/03/2017, 07:36 AM

I might even go with the VS3-72, 72" tall for $150.00 more just in case I add another tank for some reason.

roli112 · 02/03/2017, 09:56 AM

Ok that makes some more sense. we need to start seeing pictures!!!! Where your going to put it, some equipment... anything!!! lol

Malign Reefer · 02/03/2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roli112

Ok that makes some more sense. we need to start seeing pictures!!!! Where your going to put it, some equipment... anything!!! lol

Started demo on the basement for the fish room last Monday, worked on a design with the tank builder yesterday and waiting on an email from Jeff at LR to start the sump, skimmer and reactors.

I think I might start a thread next week or so in the Large Tank section.

roli112 · 02/03/2017, 12:29 PM

Let us know so we can take a peak. I don't frequent that side of the forum too often.

Malign Reefer · 02/03/2017, 12:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roli112

Let us know so we can take a peak. I don't frequent that side of the forum too often.

Will do

02/01/2017, 04:03 PM	#56
ReefKeeper64 Wanna be a reefkeeper Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Tampa Posts: 1,158	The OP is kicking around the idea of whether to incorporate a CL into his design or not. __________________ Reef Savvy 110g Tank \| GHL Profilux 4 Controller & Doser \| Royal Exclusiv Skimmer & Dreambox/Sump \| ATI 8x54 Sunpower T5 \| Ozotech Ozone Generator

02/01/2017, 08:08 PM	#59
Malign Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 324	I have make up my mind, going with regular return and 4 Ecotec MP60's and not drilling the bottom of the tank. Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-G891A using Tapatalk __________________ Barroom Hero

02/02/2017, 05:22 PM	#66
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	May want to consider a bigger sump. My 265 started out with a 75 as sump, until it got too small. Now I use a 150. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

02/02/2017, 08:52 PM	#67
roli112 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 298	Thats what I was thinking, are you doing an external skimmer? __________________ 180 gallon mixed reef Current Tank Info: 180g. mix reef

02/03/2017, 07:36 AM	#69
Malign Reefer Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: U.S.A. Posts: 324	I might even go with the VS3-72, 72" tall for $150.00 more just in case I add another tank for some reason. __________________ Barroom Hero

02/02/2017, 11:32 AM	#64
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Sounds great! We love pictures.

02/03/2017, 09:56 AM	#70
roli112 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 298	Ok that makes some more sense. we need to start seeing pictures!!!! Where your going to put it, some equipment... anything!!! lol __________________ 180 gallon mixed reef Current Tank Info: 180g. mix reef

02/03/2017, 12:29 PM	#72
roli112 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2011 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 298	Let us know so we can take a peak. I don't frequent that side of the forum too often. __________________ 180 gallon mixed reef Current Tank Info: 180g. mix reef