10 years of reefing and GHA is kicking my as#^{* - Page 3

wildman926 · 01/13/2017, 10:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jestronix

but where the hell is all the nutrients coming from? I'm still thinking it's from my live rock.

I would say yes, your live rock. IME, it acts as a sponge, and when full, releases it back into the water column. But the HA grows on the rocks, intercepting it before reaching the water column, and that is why almost all read 0 nitrates/phosphates.

epon · 01/13/2017, 11:11 AM

I'd be on the hunt for where rust is entering the tank, looks like high iron to me.

Nashlake · 01/13/2017, 03:32 PM

It is my understanding that the biological breakdown and removal of phosphates in a tank requires nitrate. This isn't a problem in lots of tanks and many strive to reduce nitrates. My tank has consistently tested zero for nitrates for several years.

In some tanks, the lack of nitrate can become a limiting factor in the breakdown and removal of phosphate by the skimmer leading to increased phosphate levels an outbreak of algae.

I had tried carbon dosing with bio pellets with no improvement and no change in skimmer out put and at one point running 3 BRS reactors with GFO and just keeping up with the algae. I tried Zovit with little change and lots of money for reactors and supplements.

I tried increasing feeding to improve color and growth, the GHA grew really well. The same when I tried dosing iron to improve colors, more algae, little change in the health of the corals.

My tank has tested zero for nitrates for so long that I stopped testing for them. I found a post on RC about nitrate limited tanks and as nothing else had worked it seemed to be describing what I was seeing in my tank Lots of very pale corals, little growth and lots of GHA.

With little to loose, the tank was already a mess, I started dosing NO3, using a liquid nitrate supplement and Red Sea's NO3PO4X as a carbon source.

I now dose the NO3PO4X with a BRS dosing pump and am dosing the nitrate manually. I started sometime in December and this has essentially eliminated GHA from my tank for the first time in years.

I am not saying that this is the solution for all algae problems but it does seem to explain why biological control of phosphate levels hasn't worked in my tank.

My skimmer is still going crazy producing lots of nasty skimmate to the point where the foam is lifting the top of the skimmer collection cup and overflowing the cup. Not liquid skimmate, just the brown foam.

I would definitely test your water before dosing Nitrate to any tank. Actually not dosing anything you cant test for is generally a good idea.

All I can say is that it is working in my tank and the corals are coloring up for the first time in a very long time.

Nashlake · 01/13/2017, 03:39 PM

Even though you are testing zero for phosphate and nitrate, if you are growing algae, you have phosphates.

It is being used by the GHA before showing up on your test.

I use the Hana ULR tester and with lots, and I do mean lots, of algae growing I always tested relatively low for phosphates

jestronix · 01/15/2017, 05:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildman926

I would say yes, your live rock. IME, it acts as a sponge, and when full, releases it back into the water column. But the HA grows on the rocks, intercepting it before reaching the water column, and that is why almost all read 0 nitrates/phosphates.

I've clean I've scrubbed , Iv sucked every bit of detritus out and yet this rock just keeps giving. GHA on my ATS is going gangbusters, within two days of harvesting its already growing wild. I'm just gunna keep this ATS cranking for the next few months. Time for a Hannah test too, and now to look into nitrates.

jestronix · 01/15/2017, 06:00 AM

Nitrates killed the GHA maybe because it causes a shift in the bacteria processing waste, like carbon dosing does ?

wildman926 · 01/15/2017, 09:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jestronix

I've clean I've scrubbed , Iv sucked every bit of detritus out and yet this rock just keeps giving. GHA on my ATS is going gangbusters, within two days of harvesting its already growing wild. I'm just gunna keep this ATS cranking for the next few months. Time for a Hannah test too, and now to look into nitrates.

Live rock is very porous. It is like a sponge. It will take a while for it to release all of its excess nutrients. Just run your ATS lights 24x7, and cut back on the display lighting. Maybe add a second ats via the bucket method. The only other option would be to replace your LR.

homer1475 · 01/15/2017, 02:25 PM

Just an update for anyone interested....

Used algaefix for a couple weeks, it helped some, but not as much as I had thought. In my 80G tank I ended up dosing 72ML over the course of 9 doses. It certainly helped, and the rest I think can be fought back with normal processes.

Unfortunately I lost all my acans, every single one(about 6 frags), and I'm not 100% sure why? The only thing that changed with the tank is the addition of the algaefix. So I can only contribute their losses to that?

Nothing else in the tank was bothered. Every snail, crab, fish and coral is fine. If anything my other LPS's even look better because their not being bothered by the algae anymore. The thing I find odd, they were fine one day, the next day when I got home from work, they were all dead, just bare skeletons.

ali1 · 01/15/2017, 02:56 PM

If all else fails, try this method:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2607958

jestronix · 01/15/2017, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ali1

If all else fails, try this method:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2607958

Ah yes forgot about this one , have done this in the past and it worked, but I want my ATS to suck it all out, otherwise it's just gunna come back

Nashlake · 01/15/2017, 04:41 PM

I don't think that the nitrate killed the algae.

What I do believe has occurred is that dosing nitrate has restored a chemical balance needed for the bacteria present in the tank to reduce the phosphates.

My skimmer is removing much more organic material than it ever has. I'm not sure how much is due to the algae dyeing but the foam becomes much darker and thicker when I dose the NO3

I think the lack of available nitrate was a limiting factor in the normal biological activity in the tank.

I believe it is the biological reduction in phosphates, and much more effective skimming, that caused the green hair algae to die off.

I am still adjusting the dosing as I don't want to completely eliminate nitrates or phosphate, just get them to levels that don't feel excessive algae growth.

The tank is definitely going through a cycle even though is has been set up for more then 10 years.

I need to vacuum the bottom of the tank again tonight due to all of the residue/detritus from the decomposing algae. It is a lot more satisfying then pulling algae off the rocks and corals.

Again, I don't know if the explanation I am using truly matches what is happening in my tank, but it fits with what I am seeing and the tank is looking much better.

Have you tested for Nitrate?

jestronix · 01/16/2017, 05:30 AM

Havet tested for nitrate for years, in my early days I would test for it. It was always so low.

Any one seen an ATS grow this quick.

This is 80w hydro light 24/7. Now what u are looking at is two days growth after harvest.

I really believe this is what they call a tank crash,

I believe now this is what has happened. My live rock is dying in my tank, no amount of water changes or harvesting will help until this live rock is dead and exhausted it's bacteria and rotted out.

So possibly the toxic chemicals released by my rusted out light caused the rock to soak up a toxic mix and then in turn kill of the bacteria,kicking off a chain reaction, GHA has then said yes please, Now its a tank of dying rock, thriving GHA, water changes are simply extending this cruel slow death.

Just maybe nitrates are the answer and could kick start my bacteria colony again, or is there simply to much toxic build up ?

I'm weeks away from a complete restart. , live rock out ! Start again.

I'm pretty sure my live rock has months and months of GHA goodness to give.

It's like I've poured in a bag of fertiliser every day.

jestronix · 01/20/2017, 05:32 PM

Setting up a new tank, even though GHA in the main display has stopped growing and is actually starting to die off. I wanted what I used to have and a rescape and rescale. It's not my ultimate dream build , but as I rent I'm restricted in size

. A 3x18x18 with sunlight, the tank sits outside and gets a dulled but strong enough dose of sunlight all day.

My old sunlight tank was just insane and I want that natural light again, corals and everything including GHA love it so I'll have a nice big ATS in sunlight that is also run at night so it can out compete the tank. A god glean up crew, and skimming during the day, feeding at night.

Most of my old rock will go as I want a sparse layout for SPS

My old tank, sunlight driven.

jestronix · 01/24/2017, 04:37 AM

New tank is set up ah the wonders of natural light

I went ballsy on this migration 90% water change, complete scrub of all live rock and I kept a good half growth on the ATS , already seeing insane growth on the ATS in natural light

aim is to keep GHA over in the ATS.

Tank gets a nice all day filtered sunlight, so only running a Ai Nano over the sps end of the tank. Bring my lighting down from 1.2kw a day to .2kw

cooling and heating will be more of course.

I've ditched the skimmer and running only ATS this time, best coral growth and color I've had is with an ATS only.

jestronix · 03/08/2017, 12:39 AM

Quick update.

ATS and 100% waterchange fixed this issue, scrubbed all rock as well. Same live rock, lighting is sunlight and led. I ditched the skimmer.

I have some very small amounts of dead GHA left.

Possible fix was lots of detritus in sump and under rockwork was removed. Open rock design on new tank means no detritus hiding spots. Also a complete clean of GHA on the rocks which was also holding detritus. Solid rinsing of food, sunlight on the ATS grows insanely quick compared to normal cfl.

Weirdly my ATS doesn't grow GHA it grows a more clear see through yellow type bacteria, along with some cyano and a tiny bit of algae. Either way nutrients seem way down.

01/15/2017, 02:25 PM	#58
homer1475 Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2015 Location: Upstate NY Posts: 5,313	Just an update for anyone interested.... Used algaefix for a couple weeks, it helped some, but not as much as I had thought. In my 80G tank I ended up dosing 72ML over the course of 9 doses. It certainly helped, and the rest I think can be fought back with normal processes. Unfortunately I lost all my acans, every single one(about 6 frags), and I'm not 100% sure why? The only thing that changed with the tank is the addition of the algaefix. So I can only contribute their losses to that? Nothing else in the tank was bothered. Every snail, crab, fish and coral is fine. If anything my other LPS's even look better because their not being bothered by the algae anymore. The thing I find odd, they were fine one day, the next day when I got home from work, they were all dead, just bare skeletons. __________________ 80G SCA Build: http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2560256 Originally posted by der_wille_zur_macht: "He's just taking his lunch to work"

01/15/2017, 02:56 PM	#59
ali1 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2010 Posts: 997	If all else fails, try this method: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh....php?t=2607958 __________________ Originally Posted by Gogandantess "I'm totally frustrated by this disease. My display has been fallow for 2 months now. If ich happened to mysteriously appear again, I'm giving up and going back to African Cichilds."

01/20/2017, 05:32 PM	#63
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Setting up a new tank, even though GHA in the main display has stopped growing and is actually starting to die off. I wanted what I used to have and a rescape and rescale. It's not my ultimate dream build , but as I rent I'm restricted in size . A 3x18x18 with sunlight, the tank sits outside and gets a dulled but strong enough dose of sunlight all day. My old sunlight tank was just insane and I want that natural light again, corals and everything including GHA love it so I'll have a nice big ATS in sunlight that is also run at night so it can out compete the tank. A god glean up crew, and skimming during the day, feeding at night. Most of my old rock will go as I want a sparse layout for SPS My old tank, sunlight driven. Last edited by jestronix; 01/20/2017 at 05:37 PM. Reason: Pic

01/13/2017, 11:11 AM	#52
epon Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: High Desert, Az. Posts: 2,146	I'd be on the hunt for where rust is entering the tank, looks like high iron to me.

01/13/2017, 03:32 PM	#53
Nashlake Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 44	It is my understanding that the biological breakdown and removal of phosphates in a tank requires nitrate. This isn't a problem in lots of tanks and many strive to reduce nitrates. My tank has consistently tested zero for nitrates for several years. In some tanks, the lack of nitrate can become a limiting factor in the breakdown and removal of phosphate by the skimmer leading to increased phosphate levels an outbreak of algae. I had tried carbon dosing with bio pellets with no improvement and no change in skimmer out put and at one point running 3 BRS reactors with GFO and just keeping up with the algae. I tried Zovit with little change and lots of money for reactors and supplements. I tried increasing feeding to improve color and growth, the GHA grew really well. The same when I tried dosing iron to improve colors, more algae, little change in the health of the corals. My tank has tested zero for nitrates for so long that I stopped testing for them. I found a post on RC about nitrate limited tanks and as nothing else had worked it seemed to be describing what I was seeing in my tank Lots of very pale corals, little growth and lots of GHA. With little to loose, the tank was already a mess, I started dosing NO3, using a liquid nitrate supplement and Red Sea's NO3PO4X as a carbon source. I now dose the NO3PO4X with a BRS dosing pump and am dosing the nitrate manually. I started sometime in December and this has essentially eliminated GHA from my tank for the first time in years. I am not saying that this is the solution for all algae problems but it does seem to explain why biological control of phosphate levels hasn't worked in my tank. My skimmer is still going crazy producing lots of nasty skimmate to the point where the foam is lifting the top of the skimmer collection cup and overflowing the cup. Not liquid skimmate, just the brown foam. I would definitely test your water before dosing Nitrate to any tank. Actually not dosing anything you cant test for is generally a good idea. All I can say is that it is working in my tank and the corals are coloring up for the first time in a very long time.

01/13/2017, 03:39 PM	#54
Nashlake Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 44	Even though you are testing zero for phosphate and nitrate, if you are growing algae, you have phosphates. It is being used by the GHA before showing up on your test. I use the Hana ULR tester and with lots, and I do mean lots, of algae growing I always tested relatively low for phosphates

01/15/2017, 06:00 AM	#56
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Nitrates killed the GHA maybe because it causes a shift in the bacteria processing waste, like carbon dosing does ?

01/15/2017, 04:41 PM	#61
Nashlake Premium Member Join Date: May 2003 Location: New Hampshire Posts: 44	I don't think that the nitrate killed the algae. What I do believe has occurred is that dosing nitrate has restored a chemical balance needed for the bacteria present in the tank to reduce the phosphates. My skimmer is removing much more organic material than it ever has. I'm not sure how much is due to the algae dyeing but the foam becomes much darker and thicker when I dose the NO3 I think the lack of available nitrate was a limiting factor in the normal biological activity in the tank. I believe it is the biological reduction in phosphates, and much more effective skimming, that caused the green hair algae to die off. I am still adjusting the dosing as I don't want to completely eliminate nitrates or phosphate, just get them to levels that don't feel excessive algae growth. The tank is definitely going through a cycle even though is has been set up for more then 10 years. I need to vacuum the bottom of the tank again tonight due to all of the residue/detritus from the decomposing algae. It is a lot more satisfying then pulling algae off the rocks and corals. Again, I don't know if the explanation I am using truly matches what is happening in my tank, but it fits with what I am seeing and the tank is looking much better. Have you tested for Nitrate?

01/16/2017, 05:30 AM	#62
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Havet tested for nitrate for years, in my early days I would test for it. It was always so low. Any one seen an ATS grow this quick. This is 80w hydro light 24/7. Now what u are looking at is two days growth after harvest. I really believe this is what they call a tank crash, I believe now this is what has happened. My live rock is dying in my tank, no amount of water changes or harvesting will help until this live rock is dead and exhausted it's bacteria and rotted out. So possibly the toxic chemicals released by my rusted out light caused the rock to soak up a toxic mix and then in turn kill of the bacteria,kicking off a chain reaction, GHA has then said yes please, Now its a tank of dying rock, thriving GHA, water changes are simply extending this cruel slow death. Just maybe nitrates are the answer and could kick start my bacteria colony again, or is there simply to much toxic build up ? I'm weeks away from a complete restart. , live rock out ! Start again. I'm pretty sure my live rock has months and months of GHA goodness to give. It's like I've poured in a bag of fertiliser every day.

01/24/2017, 04:37 AM	#64
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	New tank is set up ah the wonders of natural light I went ballsy on this migration 90% water change, complete scrub of all live rock and I kept a good half growth on the ATS , already seeing insane growth on the ATS in natural light aim is to keep GHA over in the ATS. Tank gets a nice all day filtered sunlight, so only running a Ai Nano over the sps end of the tank. Bring my lighting down from 1.2kw a day to .2kw cooling and heating will be more of course. I've ditched the skimmer and running only ATS this time, best coral growth and color I've had is with an ATS only.

03/08/2017, 12:39 AM	#65
jestronix Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Posts: 451	Quick update. ATS and 100% waterchange fixed this issue, scrubbed all rock as well. Same live rock, lighting is sunlight and led. I ditched the skimmer. I have some very small amounts of dead GHA left. Possible fix was lots of detritus in sump and under rockwork was removed. Open rock design on new tank means no detritus hiding spots. Also a complete clean of GHA on the rocks which was also holding detritus. Solid rinsing of food, sunlight on the ATS grows insanely quick compared to normal cfl. Weirdly my ATS doesn't grow GHA it grows a more clear see through yellow type bacteria, along with some cyano and a tiny bit of algae. Either way nutrients seem way down.