Stirring Top Off water

Jyetman · 05/03/2017, 07:55 PM

Is it necessary to stir 20 gallons of top off water? I've added Reef Builder (baking soda) to raise my alkalinity. Noticing the powder settled at bottom I put a power head connected to a timer in the top off bucket to run every other hour. Will this cause any issues? My dosing bucket with KALK isn't doing it anymore. After adding the reef builder in top off DKH raised from 6 to 10 and after several days PH dropped from 8.50 stabilized at 8.35 by mid day.

bnumair · 05/04/2017, 02:36 PM

i would run the pump for 2-4 hrs after putting chemicals in and thats about it. after its mixed dont need to have any movement in it.

jda · 05/04/2017, 03:59 PM

It is smart to oxygenate it and blow off the excess CO2 (which is what happened when your pH dropped a bit). I always keep it moving.

bnumair · 05/04/2017, 05:36 PM

If you keep water moving with a pump eventually heat from pump will cause the alk to precipitate leaving residue and dropping alk and pH levels anyways.
I wouldn't use any source that puts out heat like a pump, if u really want to keep pH up use a airstone.

jason2459 · 05/05/2017, 10:14 AM

I would not worry about the pH of top off water. Unless you're toping off with muriatic acid.

AlSimmons · 05/05/2017, 10:51 AM

FWIW I used to use Reef Builder in my top off water for years and never mixed it for more than a couple hours or so. No problem.

tmz · 05/06/2017, 11:22 AM

I would mix it in thoroughly and leave it still or preferably dose it separate from top off , since top off involves moving water and variability in dosing rates tied to variable evaporation rates.. Continuous agitation will cause more gas exchange with the air which could easily introduce CO2

themummra · 05/06/2017, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bnumair

If you keep water moving with a pump eventually heat from pump will cause the alk to precipitate leaving residue and dropping alk and pH levels anyways.
I wouldn't use any source that puts out heat like a pump, if u really want to keep pH up use a airstone.

Alkalinity is not a chemical, what do you mean it precipitates?

jason2459 · 05/07/2017, 12:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themummra

Alkalinity is not a chemical, what do you mean it precipitates?

I think its safe to assume he meant CaCO3. But clarification is a good thing.

I also agree with TMZ with not dosing via top off water.

tmz · 05/07/2017, 11:29 AM

Calcium carbonate/CaCo3 would precipitate and heat will reduce the amount of calcium and carbonate that can remain in solution. However, the OP isn't dosing any calcium/Ca to the top off reservoir.
There are solubility limits for carbonate / bicarbonate aside from precipitation. I suspect the powder at the bottom is undissolved carbonate /bicarbonate.

Alkalinity is not a single thing it is a measure of things that neutralize acid including: CO3 ,CHO3( carbonate/ bicarbonate), PO4/HPO4, borate ,oxide ,silicone,magenesium hydroxide. In seawater and aquarium salt water roughly 96.5% of the alkainity is carbonate/bicarbonate a measure of which is typically used as a measure of alkalinity.

bnumair · 05/07/2017, 01:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jason2459

I think its safe to assume he meant CaCO3. But clarification is a good thing.

I also agree with TMZ with not dosing via top off water.

Thank you Jason, and tmz for detailed elaboration.

tmz · 05/07/2017, 06:03 PM

you are welcome

05/03/2017, 07:55 PM	#1
Jyetman Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2012 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 1,712	Stirring Top Off water Is it necessary to stir 20 gallons of top off water? I've added Reef Builder (baking soda) to raise my alkalinity. Noticing the powder settled at bottom I put a power head connected to a timer in the top off bucket to run every other hour. Will this cause any issues? My dosing bucket with KALK isn't doing it anymore. After adding the reef builder in top off DKH raised from 6 to 10 and after several days PH dropped from 8.50 stabilized at 8.35 by mid day.

05/04/2017, 02:36 PM	#2
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	i would run the pump for 2-4 hrs after putting chemicals in and thats about it. after its mixed dont need to have any movement in it. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

05/04/2017, 05:36 PM	#4
bnumair Dr. Reef at ur service Join Date: May 2009 Location: Tulsa, Ok, USA Posts: 7,751 Blog Entries: 15	If you keep water moving with a pump eventually heat from pump will cause the alk to precipitate leaving residue and dropping alk and pH levels anyways. I wouldn't use any source that puts out heat like a pump, if u really want to keep pH up use a airstone. __________________ Water Quality: NO3 0,Phos 0,Cal 440,Alk 7.5,Mag 1300 "Reef Fast, You Crash, Reef Slow, You Pass" Mike's Reef 3:16 Current Tank Info: 350g DT,95g sump, 50g Frag tank, 4800gph return 4x Sea swirls. 6x AI Vega Color. 200# Pukani rock, dual recirculating skimmer, Biopellet, GFO Carbon rx's, Cal rx. Closed loop. 1.5hp chiller, genesis renew. Apex & RKE

05/05/2017, 10:14 AM	#5
jason2459 Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Iowa Posts: 9,671	I would not worry about the pH of top off water. Unless you're toping off with muriatic acid. __________________ rebuild and recovery log: No more red house, you'll have to click on my name and visit my homepage! You can check out my parameters at reeftronics dot net website and look for my username. Current Tank Info: 180g mixed reef w/ a beananimal overflow to a dolomite RRUGF. \| 20g long G. Smithii Mantis Tank

05/06/2017, 11:22 AM	#7
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	I would mix it in thoroughly and leave it still or preferably dose it separate from top off , since top off involves moving water and variability in dosing rates tied to variable evaporation rates.. Continuous agitation will cause more gas exchange with the air which could easily introduce CO2 __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.

05/04/2017, 03:59 PM	#3
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	It is smart to oxygenate it and blow off the excess CO2 (which is what happened when your pH dropped a bit). I always keep it moving.

05/05/2017, 10:51 AM	#6
AlSimmons Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: California Posts: 2,482	FWIW I used to use Reef Builder in my top off water for years and never mixed it for more than a couple hours or so. No problem.

05/07/2017, 11:29 AM	#10
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	Calcium carbonate/CaCo3 would precipitate and heat will reduce the amount of calcium and carbonate that can remain in solution. However, the OP isn't dosing any calcium/Ca to the top off reservoir. There are solubility limits for carbonate / bicarbonate aside from precipitation. I suspect the powder at the bottom is undissolved carbonate /bicarbonate. Alkalinity is not a single thing it is a measure of things that neutralize acid including: CO3 ,CHO3( carbonate/ bicarbonate), PO4/HPO4, borate ,oxide ,silicone,magenesium hydroxide. In seawater and aquarium salt water roughly 96.5% of the alkainity is carbonate/bicarbonate a measure of which is typically used as a measure of alkalinity. __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals. Last edited by tmz; 05/07/2017 at 11:45 AM.

05/07/2017, 06:03 PM	#12
tmz ReefKeeping Mag staff Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: West Seneca NY Posts: 27,691	you are welcome __________________ Tom Current Tank Info: Tank of the Month , November 2011 : 600gal integrated system: 3 display tanks (120 g, 90g, 89g),several frag/grow out tanks, macroalgae refugia, cryptic zones. 40+ fish, seahorses, sps,lps,leathers, zoanthidae and non photosynthetic corals.