Three letters that can save your life, your house---GFI

Sk8r · 04/12/2017, 03:13 PM

aka GFIC.
ALL electrical connections involving water or potential shock should be on a GFI (ground fault interrupt) outlet. This is very cheap: it's a socket with a button that pops out and breaks the connection faster than you can react to let go. Modern code insists on them in the bathroom, and in the kitchen. Add to those---any involving your tank equipment.

I've had some experiences with electricity enough to numb my arm for an hour---and I did not question the GFI requirement. Witness I have one on my outdoor connections, too, to the koi pond. And when I reached down, kneeling on wet soil, to adjust the malfunctioning (again!) UV in the skimmer box---I got an unpleasant shock, but ONLY unpleasant---before the GFI button popped and I was safe. [I am no longer using uv, nasty piece of uselessness anyway.] But the GFI is a keeper.

There will be times in your career you have to reach for something in your tank---and if there has been a leak and you are standing on wet floor---you need GFI. It's easy to install. It can stop a short that could burn your house down, or ruin your tank, or YOU.

Very simple precaution. Very cheap. In use, priceless. Literally.

hann1bal · 04/12/2017, 03:44 PM

knowledge

Flipperfin · 04/12/2017, 11:50 PM

Sounds like something to have, will go searching for one, thanks for the heads up!

mcgyvr · 04/13/2017, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flipperfin

Sounds like something to have, will go searching for one, thanks for the heads up!

Outside of the US they are typically called RCD (residual current device) or RCCB (residual current circuit breaker)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Residual-current_device

bobt2 · 04/13/2017, 06:00 AM

also called earth current relays

Foundry · 04/13/2017, 08:17 AM

Very true. GFI saves lives.

I use one of these on the tank outlet which feeds a power bar and thus the tank.

https://www.tenaquip.com/shop/itemDe...FUm5wAodSwgHMQ

Dale_M · 04/13/2017, 09:00 AM

Perhaps an electrician can chime in here...
I believe you can replace the existing electrical outlet (after turning off the breaker of course) with a GFI outlet which can be purchased at most hardware stores.
This has an added benefit of causing any outlets that are on the same circuit to also be GFI protected.

mcgyvr · 04/13/2017, 10:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dale_M

Perhaps an electrician can chime in here...
I believe you can replace the existing electrical outlet (after turning off the breaker of course) with a GFI outlet which can be purchased at most hardware stores.
This has an added benefit of causing any outlets that are on the same circuit to also be GFI protected.

Yes you can certainly replace the outlet with a GFCI one and utilize the "load" connections on the GFCI to also protect anything downstream..
Depending on where that outlet is in the circuit there may not be anything downstream though..

nereefpat · 04/13/2017, 10:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

Yes you can certainly replace the outlet with a GFCI one and utilize the "load" connections on the GFCI to also protect anything downstream..
Depending on where that outlet is in the circuit there may not be anything downstream though..

Yes, this.

It takes a little knowledge and a voltmeter, or at least a voltage tester. Also don't load side anything you don't want tripping, like lights. I could always tell that an electrician didn't do the bathroom remodel when the GFCI tripped and the lights went off.

Sk8r · 04/13/2017, 11:27 AM

You may want certain items on 2 different GFIs---and you may even, in a large system, want certain things on separate breakers. And if you are having a GFI pop often---you need to take a close look at how much it's loaded and at the integrity and safety of the item you have on that GFI.

mcgyvr · 04/13/2017, 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sk8r

You may want certain items on 2 different GFIs---and you may even, in a large system, want certain things on separate breakers. And if you are having a GFI pop often---you need to take a close look at how much it's loaded and at the integrity and safety of the item you have on that GFI.

Yes I would recommend this for larger tanks for sure and even smaller ones..
Splitting the loads (equipment) across two so that in the event of one of the GFCI's tripping your whole tank does not loose all equipment and may still have a powerhead,etc... for circulation..

FWIW... A GFCI does NOT offer any sort of overcurrent protection.. Thats the branch circuit breakers job.. If the GFCI is tripping it is NOT overloaded but rather a piece of equipment is either faulty or leaking too much current to ground..

Also.. I recommend GFCI's for submerged line (AC) powered equipment only. And that is where 120V (or whatever is your line voltage in your country) goes directly into the tank..
Devices that run off DC power and feature an AC/DC adapter that is kept well away from the water do not need to be on GFCI circuits..
The same applies to MH fixtures,etc... in which the lighting side is isolated from mains via a transformer,etc... A GFCI will not trip at all should a metal halide fall into your tank (unless the actual ballast itself falls in).. The primary side of a transformer (the side plugged into the wall) cannot see whats happening on the secondary side and thus the GFCI will not operate should the light fall into the water..
Can you put those devices on a GFCI... You most certainly can though.. Its not going to harm them to be on a GFCI but there is little to no benefit in having them on that GFCI device..

Dale_M · 04/13/2017, 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nereefpat

Yes, this.

It takes a little knowledge and a voltmeter, or at least a voltage tester. Also don't load side anything you don't want tripping, like lights. I could always tell that an electrician didn't do the bathroom remodel when the GFCI tripped and the lights went off.

Having some of my lights go out because of a tripped GFCI would seem to be a bonus warning if you ask me.

LX20000 · 04/13/2017, 12:34 PM

You can also put a GFCI breaker in your box and then all the circuits on that breaker are protected.

callsign4223 · 05/03/2017, 01:08 PM

GFCI saved my kids this week. One of them, probably the 3 year old, pulled my sump light off and threw it in the sump. I got home and the tank was dark. I asked my wife and she said it was like that all day. I opened the door under the cabinet and saw the light sitting in the sump. Without the GFCI outlet I would probably have a dead or injured child right now. The truly scary part is that I only replaced that outlet 3 weeks ago when I swapped tanks. I thought my kids knew better to stay out of there. I will NEVER have a tank without a GFCI outlet anymore. It's too cheap and easy to do and there is no comparison to losing a loved one.

Stolireef · 05/03/2017, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mcgyvr

FWIW... A GFCI does NOT offer any sort of overcurrent protection.. Thats the branch circuit breakers job.. If the GFCI is tripping it is NOT overloaded but rather a piece of equipment is either faulty or leaking too much current to ground..

Also.. I recommend GFCI's for submerged line (AC) powered equipment only. And that is where 120V (or whatever is your line voltage in your country) goes directly into the tank..
Devices that run off DC power and feature an AC/DC adapter that is kept well away from the water do not need to be on GFCI circuits..
The same applies to MH fixtures,etc... in which the lighting side is isolated from mains via a transformer,etc... A GFCI will not trip at all should a metal halide fall into your tank (unless the actual ballast itself falls in).. The primary side of a transformer (the side plugged into the wall) cannot see whats happening on the secondary side and thus the GFCI will not operate should the light fall into the water..
Can you put those devices on a GFCI... You most certainly can though.. Its not going to harm them to be on a GFCI but there is little to no benefit in having them on that GFCI device..

Since I'm already known as the resident idiot plumber, I may as well expose my electrical stupidity as well. Does this mean that if all of my equipment is DC (eg pumps, lights, etc.) that a GFCI isn't doing me much good. The only AC equipment in my tank is the heaters.

callsign4223 · 05/03/2017, 01:20 PM

I'm only looking at your sig, but the skimmer should be AC and so should the Sicce pump.

Stolireef · 05/03/2017, 01:34 PM

D'oh. Correct on skimmer but I replaced the Sicce with a DC pump. Just haven't updated sig line.

meeandcharlie · 05/04/2017, 07:45 AM

Oh yes, this is such an important part of a tank setup! Safety first! First part of my 90 set up was having an electrician come in and install GFI with new wiring so the tank is on it's own 20 amp breaker. I sleep better at night. (I lost everything in a house fire a few years ago)

Fat_cat · 05/08/2017, 05:57 PM

Quick question.. when I heard the importance of getting a GFCI I got one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UOU6OVU
Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea/less safe than an actual GFCI outlet

Blabomb · 05/08/2017, 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat_cat

Quick question.. when I heard the importance of getting a GFCI I got one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UOU6OVU
Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea/less safe than an actual GFCI outlet

I'd like clarification on this as well. I don't trust myself to replace an outlet so this is a good alternative for me.

scuzy · 05/08/2017, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fat_cat

Quick question.. when I heard the importance of getting a GFCI I got one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UOU6OVU

Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea/less safe than an actual GFCI outlet

Some of these don't auto restart from power out. There are ones that will restart from power outages so make sure you get ones that does. Also get a gfci tripper to test the gfci.
That one you listed say auto restart so looks good.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

crabbydan · 05/08/2017, 10:22 PM

replaced an outlet over the weekend with a new gfci outlet for my home office 20 gallon build.

Pelagic_e36 · 05/08/2017, 10:37 PM

Just yesterday I thoroughly cleaned my HOB skimmer, I checked it often throughout the day, but suddenly after an hour of not checking it, the skimmer was overfilling, spewing saltwater on my "protected" power strip, I could see the sparks and smell the burning. Super lucky I was home and there to stop the imminent disaster.

mcgyvr · 05/09/2017, 05:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stolireef

Since I'm already known as the resident idiot plumber, I may as well expose my electrical stupidity as well. Does this mean that if all of my equipment is DC (eg pumps, lights, etc.) that a GFCI isn't doing me much good. The only AC equipment in my tank is the heaters.

Correct... There is little to no harm (no shock hazard) with submerged DC powered equipment as its low voltage. But that AC heater can light you up

If you had a tank of 100% DC powered pumps/heaters and metal halide lighting with a remote ballast there is zero benefit in a GFCI (except if you dropped the AC/DC adapter (brick) into the tank then GFCI would help).. But the second you install submerged equipment that is line powered (AC) you should/must install GFCI..

04/12/2017, 03:13 PM	#1
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Three letters that can save your life, your house---GFI aka GFIC. ALL electrical connections involving water or potential shock should be on a GFI (ground fault interrupt) outlet. This is very cheap: it's a socket with a button that pops out and breaks the connection faster than you can react to let go. Modern code insists on them in the bathroom, and in the kitchen. Add to those---any involving your tank equipment. I've had some experiences with electricity enough to numb my arm for an hour---and I did not question the GFI requirement. Witness I have one on my outdoor connections, too, to the koi pond. And when I reached down, kneeling on wet soil, to adjust the malfunctioning (again!) UV in the skimmer box---I got an unpleasant shock, but ONLY unpleasant---before the GFI button popped and I was safe. [I am no longer using uv, nasty piece of uselessness anyway.] But the GFI is a keeper. There will be times in your career you have to reach for something in your tank---and if there has been a leak and you are standing on wet floor---you need GFI. It's easy to install. It can stop a short that could burn your house down, or ruin your tank, or YOU. Very simple precaution. Very cheap. In use, priceless. Literally. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

04/13/2017, 09:00 AM	#7
Dale_M Official Noob Join Date: Mar 2017 Location: Valrico, FL Posts: 76	Perhaps an electrician can chime in here... I believe you can replace the existing electrical outlet (after turning off the breaker of course) with a GFI outlet which can be purchased at most hardware stores. This has an added benefit of causing any outlets that are on the same circuit to also be GFI protected. __________________ 20gal since 4/27/19 HOB filter, 1.023sg, 78.6deg, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, <10ppm nitrate, 8.9 dKH, (2)Clownfish (2)Bangaii Cardinals (1)Orchid Dottyback (1)Peppermint shrimp (5)Nassarius snails Current Tank Info: 20gal running since 4/27/2019. HOB filter, 1.023sg, 78.6deg, 0 ammonia, 0 nitrite, <10ppm nitrate, 8.9 dKH, (2) Clownfish (1) Peppermint shrimp (5) Nassarius snails (1) Dottyback

04/13/2017, 11:27 AM	#10
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	You may want certain items on 2 different GFIs---and you may even, in a large system, want certain things on separate breakers. And if you are having a GFI pop often---you need to take a close look at how much it's loaded and at the integrity and safety of the item you have on that GFI. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

05/03/2017, 01:34 PM	#17
Stolireef Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: Scottsdale AZ Posts: 3,180 Blog Entries: 5	D'oh. Correct on skimmer but I replaced the Sicce with a DC pump. Just haven't updated sig line. __________________ I want to burn twice as bright and half as long. Oh, and a full tank crash is just an excuse for a new build. Current Tank Info: 125 Rimless Leemar, Apex, Trigger 30 Elite Sump, Vertex 180i Skimmer, 2 X Gen4 Radion XR30W, BM Doser, 2xMP40WES, 2xTunze 6095, Sicce Syncra 4.0.

04/12/2017, 03:44 PM	#2
hann1bal Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2016 Posts: 223	knowledge

04/12/2017, 11:50 PM	#3
Flipperfin Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Denmark Posts: 48	Sounds like something to have, will go searching for one, thanks for the heads up!

04/13/2017, 06:00 AM	#5
bobt2 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: long island NY Posts: 1,835	also called earth current relays

04/13/2017, 08:17 AM	#6
Foundry Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Posts: 57	Very true. GFI saves lives. I use one of these on the tank outlet which feeds a power bar and thus the tank. https://www.tenaquip.com/shop/itemDe...FUm5wAodSwgHMQ

04/13/2017, 12:34 PM	#13
LX20000 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2017 Location: Allentown, Pa. Posts: 210	You can also put a GFCI breaker in your box and then all the circuits on that breaker are protected.

05/03/2017, 01:08 PM	#14
callsign4223 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 348	GFCI saved my kids this week. One of them, probably the 3 year old, pulled my sump light off and threw it in the sump. I got home and the tank was dark. I asked my wife and she said it was like that all day. I opened the door under the cabinet and saw the light sitting in the sump. Without the GFCI outlet I would probably have a dead or injured child right now. The truly scary part is that I only replaced that outlet 3 weeks ago when I swapped tanks. I thought my kids knew better to stay out of there. I will NEVER have a tank without a GFCI outlet anymore. It's too cheap and easy to do and there is no comparison to losing a loved one.

05/03/2017, 01:20 PM	#16
callsign4223 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Oklahoma Posts: 348	I'm only looking at your sig, but the skimmer should be AC and so should the Sicce pump.

05/04/2017, 07:45 AM	#18
meeandcharlie Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: Tybee Island, GA Posts: 67	Oh yes, this is such an important part of a tank setup! Safety first! First part of my 90 set up was having an electrician come in and install GFI with new wiring so the tank is on it's own 20 amp breaker. I sleep better at night. (I lost everything in a house fire a few years ago)

05/08/2017, 05:57 PM	#19
Fat_cat Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2017 Posts: 9	Quick question.. when I heard the importance of getting a GFCI I got one of these: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00UOU6OVU Is there any reason why this would be a bad idea/less safe than an actual GFCI outlet

05/08/2017, 10:22 PM	#22
crabbydan Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2014 Location: Phoenix, AZ Posts: 267	replaced an outlet over the weekend with a new gfci outlet for my home office 20 gallon build.

05/08/2017, 10:37 PM	#23
Pelagic_e36 Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2016 Location: Orange County, Ca Posts: 115	Just yesterday I thoroughly cleaned my HOB skimmer, I checked it often throughout the day, but suddenly after an hour of not checking it, the skimmer was overfilling, spewing saltwater on my "protected" power strip, I could see the sparks and smell the burning. Super lucky I was home and there to stop the imminent disaster.