Plumbing Through floor

aarozsps · 08/20/2017, 01:22 PM

Hey fellow reef junkies,

I'm going to be attaching my 600L (150 gal) display to a big sump i've had going with a frag setup installed downstairs in the garage now for some time.

Ill be using a 40mm (1.5") overflow (durso) overflow with a 25mm (1") unrestricted emergency overflow.

My question is where should i put the restriction valve on the 40mm durso?.... Under the display upstairs (most convenient for balance adjustment) or downstairs some 4m (12') below near the sump?

Thanks for any help

lagatbezan · 08/20/2017, 01:40 PM

I would put the valve upstairs so that it would make tuning it convenient.
I'm not an expert but my suggestion would be to ditch the durso and go with herbie drain design or a bene animal.

sleepydoc · 08/20/2017, 01:44 PM

+1 on using a bean animal if you can.

having the valve upstairs will be more convenient but may lead to more noise & splashing downstairs due to the increased likelihood of air in the line below the valve.

aarozsps · 08/20/2017, 11:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lagatbezan

I would put the valve upstairs so that it would make tuning it convenient.
I'm not an expert but my suggestion would be to ditch the durso and go with herbie drain design or a bene animal.

Hey Lagatbezan, i figured a durso would be easier to mod into a herbie and the tank is fitted with a durso right now... No space without major modifications for a beananimal thansk for the suggestion

aarozsps · 08/21/2017, 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sleepydoc

+1 on using a bean animal if you can.

having the valve upstairs will be more convenient but may lead to more noise & splashing downstairs due to the increased likelihood of air in the line below the valve.

Hey Sleepydoc, No space for a beananimal without mods to the overflow box (not enough space to drill another hole) and the back of the tank will be too close to the wall.

I thought that may be the case with noise downstairs (which is also important to minimise).

Would you go for a durso or herbie given that.... A bit of trickling noise is ok, the most important is 'set and forget' (ive got a durso downstairs i havenot touched in 12+months

)?

Ive just not no experience with 12feet of gravity between display and sump

lagatbezan · 08/21/2017, 08:45 AM

I'm personally using a herbie myself on my 300g and it works great and dead silent.

ca1ore · 08/21/2017, 11:41 AM

I prefer the gate valve closer to the sump. A bit less convenient perhaps, but I found it to work better that way.

der_wille_zur_macht · 08/21/2017, 12:03 PM

A durso is technically mixed channel (air and water) and shouldn't be restricted or tuned. The fact that it is sucking air basically makes it self tuning by design.

If you allow it to run as a full siphon with no air, then yes you need a valve to tune it. In most cases, it will perform better with the valve as close to the sump end as possible - it ends up being a question of pressure in the line and air becoming trapped, either at startup or over time from bubbles. Air distribution less likely to get trapped in the line if the valve is near the bottom.

I agree though that it will be challenging to tune if the valve is in the basement and you can't see the overflow when you are tuning it. I don't think the performance difference of valve location is a big enough deal to make me put it in the basement in a case like yours. I would just put it up top.

That said, two other thoughts. First, your emergency needs to be at least as big in capacity as your main drain. If you use a 1.5" primary and a 1" emergency, the emergency may not be able to keep up. Secondly, I don't think it pays to have a primary that is way oversized. A large pipe with a valve that is mostly shut will be harder to tune and less stable than a smaller pipe with a valve mostly open. Size the main drain so it is slightly larger than your flow requirements, if you can.

ca1ore · 08/21/2017, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by der_wille_zur_macht

That said, two other thoughts. First, your emergency needs to be at least as big in capacity as your main drain. If you use a 1.5" primary and a 1" emergency, the emergency may not be able to keep up. Secondly, I don't think it pays to have a primary that is way oversized. A large pipe with a valve that is mostly shut will be harder to tune and less stable than a smaller pipe with a valve mostly open. Size the main drain so it is slightly larger than your flow requirements, if you can.

Fully agree! Hard to see where more than a 1" siphon is necessary - particularly with a long drop.

mikluha · 08/22/2017, 07:08 PM

Quote:

My question is where should i put the restriction valve on the 40mm durso?.... Under the display upstairs (most convenient for balance adjustment) or downstairs some 4m (12') below near the sump?

Install two valves. One upstairs and one downstairs, so you can adjust it anywhere you want. I have the display in a room and sump/pump in garage. Having valves in both locations made my life much easier

der_wille_zur_macht · 08/22/2017, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

Fully agree! Hard to see where more than a 1" siphon is necessary - particularly with a long drop.

I agree, for typical tank sizes. I had a 1.5" primary siphon on my 360g. It was running maybe 3200 gph and the valve needed to be shut much further than I'd expected. Might have even been OK with 1.25".

08/20/2017, 01:22 PM	#1
aarozsps Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2016 Location: Norway Posts: 5	Plumbing Through floor Hey fellow reef junkies, I'm going to be attaching my 600L (150 gal) display to a big sump i've had going with a frag setup installed downstairs in the garage now for some time. Ill be using a 40mm (1.5") overflow (durso) overflow with a 25mm (1") unrestricted emergency overflow. My question is where should i put the restriction valve on the 40mm durso?.... Under the display upstairs (most convenient for balance adjustment) or downstairs some 4m (12') below near the sump? Thanks for any help

08/20/2017, 01:40 PM	#2
lagatbezan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,109	I would put the valve upstairs so that it would make tuning it convenient. I'm not an expert but my suggestion would be to ditch the durso and go with herbie drain design or a bene animal. __________________ Ryan. 300g with velocity t4 for return and a Reflo dart on a closed loop, T5 lights & SRO3000 skimmer. Current Tank Info: 300g

08/20/2017, 01:44 PM	#3
sleepydoc Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: Minneapolis, MN Posts: 3,907	+1 on using a bean animal if you can. having the valve upstairs will be more convenient but may lead to more noise & splashing downstairs due to the increased likelihood of air in the line below the valve. __________________ ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 120 gallon, coast to coast overflow w/beananimal overflow. Waveline DC 10000 II return pump, 40 gal sump, Octopus XS200 skimmer, T5 lighting

08/21/2017, 08:45 AM	#6
lagatbezan Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Long Island, NY Posts: 1,109	I'm personally using a herbie myself on my 300g and it works great and dead silent. __________________ Ryan. 300g with velocity t4 for return and a Reflo dart on a closed loop, T5 lights & SRO3000 skimmer. Current Tank Info: 300g

08/21/2017, 11:41 AM	#7
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I prefer the gate valve closer to the sump. A bit less convenient perhaps, but I found it to work better that way. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

08/21/2017, 12:03 PM	#8
der_wille_zur_macht Team RC Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NY Posts: 17,749	A durso is technically mixed channel (air and water) and shouldn't be restricted or tuned. The fact that it is sucking air basically makes it self tuning by design. If you allow it to run as a full siphon with no air, then yes you need a valve to tune it. In most cases, it will perform better with the valve as close to the sump end as possible - it ends up being a question of pressure in the line and air becoming trapped, either at startup or over time from bubbles. Air distribution less likely to get trapped in the line if the valve is near the bottom. I agree though that it will be challenging to tune if the valve is in the basement and you can't see the overflow when you are tuning it. I don't think the performance difference of valve location is a big enough deal to make me put it in the basement in a case like yours. I would just put it up top. That said, two other thoughts. First, your emergency needs to be at least as big in capacity as your main drain. If you use a 1.5" primary and a 1" emergency, the emergency may not be able to keep up. Secondly, I don't think it pays to have a primary that is way oversized. A large pipe with a valve that is mostly shut will be harder to tune and less stable than a smaller pipe with a valve mostly open. Size the main drain so it is slightly larger than your flow requirements, if you can. __________________ Inconveniencing marine life since 1992 "It is my personal belief that reef aquaria should be thriving communities of biodiversity, representative of their wild counterparts, and not merely collections of pretty specimens growing on tidy clean rock shelves covered in purple coralline algae." (Eric Borneman)