Rock flower budding?!

Aresangel · 09/27/2017, 06:15 PM

So I read rock flower anemones only reproduce sexually. I have had one in my tank for a month or so now and noticed the day I put a second one in there was what looked like a new head budding out.

Now I know it was not the new one that reproduced with it because I saw it hours after I put it in.

I read they do not split. Is this true or will that baby bud fall off and attach itself?

Thanks for any input you may have!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

heathlindner25 · 09/27/2017, 07:44 PM

No buds I know of, male and female release sperm and egg in the water.

Ron Reefman · 09/29/2017, 05:24 AM

Aresangel, to say your photos are hard to look at is an understatement. And I don't see anything there that looks like a rock flower 'budding'? Maybe you could get a better pic and then circle the 'bud'. And explain what you mean by budding?

Rock flowers do reproduce sexually. They do NOT split like RBTA's. I have a pair that recently reproduced. I did not see it happen and only noticed the 5 'babies' in the area of the 'parents' after they had attached to other rocks. They are all extremely small (1/16th to 1/8th inch) when new. Several of mine are still very small after a couple of months, maybe doubled in size. But 2 have increased 4 or 5 times in size since I first found them. They have settled out on nearby rocks and sand. They are all less than 3" away from the parents.

To heathlindner25's statement. I read (a not very scientific post) that said the males release the sperm and the females collect it, and gestation takes a couple of months and the 'babies' are released by the female. I don't know how accurate or true that is? I've also been told (by an LFS in Miami who collects them by the hundreds) they reproduce by pedal laceration? This was described to me as a tentacle forming a new anemone (very small) and then they are released. I would love to find a more authoritative and scientific article, but so far I've not found much.

MrsReefK · 09/29/2017, 05:50 AM

I had 1 rock flower anemone, and it reproduced by leaving a piece of its "stem". About 5 days later, fully new baby anemone forming from the white "stem stump". A few weeks later, same situation happened again. In my experience, there's no male and female at all with rock flower anemone reproduction.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

heathlindner25 · 09/29/2017, 09:48 AM

Good info Ron. I wasent sure about females because I'm pretty sure mine are boys. They sperm frequently.

Ron Reefman · 09/29/2017, 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrsReefK

I had 1 rock flower anemone, and it reproduced by leaving a piece of its "stem". About 5 days later, fully new baby anemone forming from the white "stem stump". A few weeks later, same situation happened again. In my experience, there's no male and female at all with rock flower anemone reproduction.

By "piece of the stem" do you mean, it moved and where it had been originally some 'material' was left behind and a new anemone started?

Does anybody have a link to info about rock flower propagation? I'd prefer serious and scientific, but most anything is as good as the info I've found so far.

MrsReefK · 09/29/2017, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

By "piece of the stem" do you mean, it moved and where it had been originally some 'material' was left behind and a new anemone started?

Does anybody have a link to info about rock flower propagation? I'd prefer serious and scientific, but most anything is as good as the info I've found so far.

Yes, the "mother" splits her stem, leaving maybe an inch or so or white "stem" separated from her. In about a week the piece left behind is a spitting image of the mother. Now I have 2 babies that are the same as the original, they moved about the tank and found happy places.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

hogfanreefer · 09/29/2017, 06:54 PM

They may well reproduce asexually but they are definitely male and female. One of mine is a male and I have watched him spawn a couple of times. A guy in our club has documented his reproducing and describes exactly what Ron was saying.

Don't know if the link is ok but here's a link to his thread. There is actually a picture of a female with eggs visible in her mouth.

http://www.razorbackreef.com/index.p...83/#post-41816

Ron Reefman · 09/30/2017, 09:43 AM

MrsReefK, I'd love to see a pic or two of your rock flower babies.

These first 2 pics are the parents of my babies:

And these are all the babies. I never saw them until about 6 or 8 weeks ago.

MrsReefK · 09/30/2017, 07:52 PM

Sure thing! I'll get some pics tomorrow. The 2 "babies" are identical to the original, spitting image.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Aresangel · 10/12/2017, 06:25 PM

Ron Reefman, the top picture left side is the under side of my nem. There is new tentacles firing from the foot. Knowing they have a long gestation period may make sense considering I had it for a couple months. I mostly brows the forums on my phone so I don't have a good camera. I will see if I can snap a clearer one like the second one by irritating it to close first.

Thank you all for the information. As of right now I still believe it is budding from what I can see.

Lastly Ron. Nice colors on those rock anemones! What lighting do you have them under? Mine is under LED with higher white lights.

MrsReefK did the mother move to leave the babies behind or did the babies just "crawl" off the stem?

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Ron Reefman · 10/13/2017, 12:32 AM

Aresangel, those were taken during my midday led lighting that is 90% blue and 40% white and violet with 19% red and green. They were taken with my Olympus TG1 point and shoot tough camera while in the tank. My wife and I use them (we have 2) when we go snorkeling (mostly in the Florida Keys). Those nems came from VIP Reefs in Miami, but I recently got several more from Cultivated Reef http://cultivatedreef.com/

Looking at your pics again, I do see what look like some tentacles at the base of the nem. It almost tempts me to take one and cut the foot to see if it will start anything new to grow... but I'll wait until I have a cheap, non colorful one.

kenneth wolfe · 10/13/2017, 01:24 AM

So nice.. So nice..

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

anbosu · 10/13/2017, 08:30 AM

Ron those are awesome, I hope to have my rock flowers reproduce someday. Especially if I can get some with those colors.

Aresangel · 10/14/2017, 06:02 PM

Here are some hopefully clearer pics. Again iPhone 6s camera.

It is almost near the skirt of the mother.

I have black box LED. I think the two I have don't have enough Blue to make the colors pop. That and I got them used 3 years old for 40 bucks so I have to crank the whites for a decent PAR.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

kenneth wolfe · 10/14/2017, 06:30 PM

I recently bought New replacement pcb from from sb lighting there a big improvement over original , 70 dollars if I remember, they really only last few years any way..

Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

MrsReefK · 10/18/2017, 06:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ron Reefman

MrsReefK, I'd love to see a pic or two of your rock flower babies.

These first 2 pics are the parents of my babies:

And these are all the babies. I never saw them until about 6 or 8 weeks ago.

Completely forgot I promised pics. These aren't the best because I took them for coral growth, wasn't concentrating on the nems. My rock flower is no where near as pretty as yours and others I've seen!

First pic is Jan 1, 2017. The baby was "created" on Christmas Day 2016, so roughly a week later. When the baby was produced, it was a white blob, no coloring. You can see the "mom" side angle on the top right. Baby to the left of that, opposite side of the rock.

Second pic is last week Thursday. You see the baby is much larger and more colorful now! Mom is still there, she just tucked around the rock a little more.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kevin Guthrie · 10/18/2017, 08:05 AM

Quote:

So I read rock flower anemones only reproduce sexually.

I'm surprised - AFAIK all anemones are fundamentally capable of asexual reproduction, even from small fragments. Can you provide a reference to where you read that?

Asexual reproduction is specifically mentioned here for Phymanthus crucifer for example, although many species and genera are called "rock flower":https://sta.uwi.edu/fst/lifesciences...s_crucifer.pdf

In my tank the "babies" show up all over, not budding from the base of a parent - same as @Ron Reefman. I have no way of knowing if they from frags or planulae though.

09/27/2017, 06:15 PM	#1
Aresangel Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Leominster MA Posts: 62	Rock flower budding?! So I read rock flower anemones only reproduce sexually. I have had one in my tank for a month or so now and noticed the day I put a second one in there was what looked like a new head budding out. Now I know it was not the new one that reproduced with it because I saw it hours after I put it in. I read they do not split. Is this true or will that baby bud fall off and attach itself? Thanks for any input you may have! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09/29/2017, 05:24 AM	#3
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	Aresangel, to say your photos are hard to look at is an understatement. And I don't see anything there that looks like a rock flower 'budding'? Maybe you could get a better pic and then circle the 'bud'. And explain what you mean by budding? Rock flowers do reproduce sexually. They do NOT split like RBTA's. I have a pair that recently reproduced. I did not see it happen and only noticed the 5 'babies' in the area of the 'parents' after they had attached to other rocks. They are all extremely small (1/16th to 1/8th inch) when new. Several of mine are still very small after a couple of months, maybe doubled in size. But 2 have increased 4 or 5 times in size since I first found them. They have settled out on nearby rocks and sand. They are all less than 3" away from the parents. To heathlindner25's statement. I read (a not very scientific post) that said the males release the sperm and the females collect it, and gestation takes a couple of months and the 'babies' are released by the female. I don't know how accurate or true that is? I've also been told (by an LFS in Miami who collects them by the hundreds) they reproduce by pedal laceration? This was described to me as a tentacle forming a new anemone (very small) and then they are released. I would love to find a more authoritative and scientific article, but so far I've not found much. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017 Last edited by Ron Reefman; 09/29/2017 at 05:39 AM.

09/29/2017, 05:50 AM	#4
MrsReefK Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 981	Rock flower budding?! I had 1 rock flower anemone, and it reproduced by leaving a piece of its "stem". About 5 days later, fully new baby anemone forming from the white "stem stump". A few weeks later, same situation happened again. In my experience, there's no male and female at all with rock flower anemone reproduction. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

09/29/2017, 06:54 PM	#8
hogfanreefer Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: Conway, AR Posts: 2,117	They may well reproduce asexually but they are definitely male and female. One of mine is a male and I have watched him spawn a couple of times. A guy in our club has documented his reproducing and describes exactly what Ron was saying. Don't know if the link is ok but here's a link to his thread. There is actually a picture of a female with eggs visible in her mouth. http://www.razorbackreef.com/index.p...83/#post-41816 __________________ DSA 155,Custom Trigger 42" sump/refugium, MP40 X2, MP 10 X 2, AI Hydra 52 X3, Apex controller, Tunze ATO Current Tank Info: DSA 155 gallon, mixed reef, SPS and wrasse dominant

09/30/2017, 09:43 AM	#9
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	MrsReefK, I'd love to see a pic or two of your rock flower babies. These first 2 pics are the parents of my babies: And these are all the babies. I never saw them until about 6 or 8 weeks ago. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

09/27/2017, 07:44 PM	#2
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	No buds I know of, male and female release sperm and egg in the water.

09/29/2017, 09:48 AM	#5
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Good info Ron. I wasent sure about females because I'm pretty sure mine are boys. They sperm frequently.

09/30/2017, 07:52 PM	#10
MrsReefK Registered Member Join Date: Oct 2015 Posts: 981	Sure thing! I'll get some pics tomorrow. The 2 "babies" are identical to the original, spitting image. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10/12/2017, 06:25 PM	#11
Aresangel Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Leominster MA Posts: 62	Ron Reefman, the top picture left side is the under side of my nem. There is new tentacles firing from the foot. Knowing they have a long gestation period may make sense considering I had it for a couple months. I mostly brows the forums on my phone so I don't have a good camera. I will see if I can snap a clearer one like the second one by irritating it to close first. Thank you all for the information. As of right now I still believe it is budding from what I can see. Lastly Ron. Nice colors on those rock anemones! What lighting do you have them under? Mine is under LED with higher white lights. MrsReefK did the mother move to leave the babies behind or did the babies just "crawl" off the stem? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10/13/2017, 12:32 AM	#12
Ron Reefman Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Cape Coral, FL Posts: 10,431	Aresangel, those were taken during my midday led lighting that is 90% blue and 40% white and violet with 19% red and green. They were taken with my Olympus TG1 point and shoot tough camera while in the tank. My wife and I use them (we have 2) when we go snorkeling (mostly in the Florida Keys). Those nems came from VIP Reefs in Miami, but I recently got several more from Cultivated Reef http://cultivatedreef.com/ Looking at your pics again, I do see what look like some tentacles at the base of the nem. It almost tempts me to take one and cut the foot to see if it will start anything new to grow... but I'll wait until I have a cheap, non colorful one. __________________ The good thing about science is that it's true whether or not you believe in it. (Neil deGrasse Tyson) Visit my build thread http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2593017

10/13/2017, 01:24 AM	#13
kenneth wolfe Moved On Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Galveston Co. Posts: 853	So nice.. So nice.. Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk

10/13/2017, 08:30 AM	#14
anbosu Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Mount Juliet, TN Posts: 4,528	Ron those are awesome, I hope to have my rock flowers reproduce someday. Especially if I can get some with those colors.

10/14/2017, 06:02 PM	#15
Aresangel Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2015 Location: Leominster MA Posts: 62	Here are some hopefully clearer pics. Again iPhone 6s camera. It is almost near the skirt of the mother. I have black box LED. I think the two I have don't have enough Blue to make the colors pop. That and I got them used 3 years old for 40 bucks so I have to crank the whites for a decent PAR. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

10/14/2017, 06:30 PM	#16
kenneth wolfe Moved On Join Date: Aug 2014 Location: Galveston Co. Posts: 853	I recently bought New replacement pcb from from sb lighting there a big improvement over original , 70 dollars if I remember, they really only last few years any way.. Sent from my SM-G892A using Tapatalk