3x AI Prime's over a 4ft tank?

serbusfish · 10/30/2017, 09:41 AM

I am looking to upgrade my lighting, currently running a Maxspect Razor 320w unit but I dont really like the colour as it lacks any red/green/uv led's so ends up looking a little bland (to me at least). I am wondering if 3x AI Primes would be good enough to light a 4ft tank with a depth of 20 inches? Apparently they cover a 24x24 inch radius so I figured they would work well but i'd love some opinions on this? The AI Hydras are out of my price range which is why i'm looking at the Prime instead.

[]V[]addog · 10/30/2017, 09:47 AM

concerned that the middle prime would be right over the support bar of a 4 foot tank. you'd loose a lot of light right where the par would be strongest.

Cheapreef · 10/30/2017, 10:28 AM

What kind of corals are you keeping? Primes are pretty weak, had one was approximately 30% of what one of my Hydra 26.

jda · 10/30/2017, 10:48 AM

Inhabitant will matter. I would not keep much on the edges of that 24x24 area... 12x12 seems more like it for higher light stuff.

hanas · 10/30/2017, 11:03 AM

Primes on that setup would be pretty useless if you're planning on keeping corals, especially SPS . If you're not planning on SPS, then you could probably do 3 x AI Hydra 26 but SPS would require at least 3 - AI Hydra 52s.

My tank is 48" long by 28" deep (24" high) and I'm running 4 - AI Hydra 52's. 90% SPS corals and I started with two units and got terrible results. Three units produced a dramatic change and I added the 4th to take care of shading down the road. Put them up about 12-14" off the water line.

hanas · 10/30/2017, 11:26 AM

I will also add that had I known it would take 4 units to have good coverage and results with SPS in my tank, I probably would have stayed with T5s or used a MH/T5 unit like I have on my old setups.

The upfront cost was significant for these lights but so are the corals and fish that go in the tank as well. It's all what you prefer and what your budget allows.

serbusfish · 10/30/2017, 02:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by []V[]addog

concerned that the middle prime would be right over the support bar of a 4 foot tank. you'd loose a lot of light right where the par would be strongest.

My brace bars are setup like this:

So 3 primes would go over each space around the bars.

Quote:

Originally Posted by jda

Inhabitant will matter. I would not keep much on the edges of that 24x24 area... 12x12 seems more like it for higher light stuff.

The space between each of the brace bars is around 14". I have a few softies (Toadstool, Zoas, Finger Leather, Xenia), LPS (Lobo, Trachy, Gonis, Duncans), SPS (Birdsnest, Monti Caps, Monti Digis, Monti Setosa) and 2x Mini Maxi Anemones. I run the Razor on 48% white, 85% blues.

Quote:

Originally Posted by hanas

Primes on that setup would be pretty useless if you're planning on keeping corals, especially SPS . If you're not planning on SPS, then you could probably do 3 x AI Hydra 26 but SPS would require at least 3 - AI Hydra 52s.

My tank is 48" long by 28" deep (24" high) and I'm running 4 - AI Hydra 52's. 90% SPS corals and I started with two units and got terrible results. Three units produced a dramatic change and I added the 4th to take care of shading down the road. Put them up about 12-14" off the water line.

That goes against the product description of the Prime, this part in particular:

"With a spread of 24" x 24", the AI Prime HD has a peak PAR of 100µMol at a depth of 24 inches, more than enough for your hungriest of livestock"

jda · 10/30/2017, 02:46 PM

AI/EcoTech and Kessil to a lesser degree are almost criminal on the descriptions of their products. They underrate them significantly... they know that if they can get you hooked on one or two, then you will usually end up getting more like hanas did... but if you know up front what it takes, then people might make other decisions.

Tuffyyyyy · 10/30/2017, 02:52 PM

BRS has had a few good videos to help guide you:

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...-investigates/

https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...d-light-brstv/

GSMclowns · 10/30/2017, 03:10 PM

Don't listen to those LED manufacturers. They do not cover 24" x 24" at all.
I have Hydra 52 and it covers about 18" x 18" max.. and Hydra 52 is about 3 time more powerful than that Prime???

hanas · 10/30/2017, 05:13 PM

Serbusfish - jda is correct and from my personal experience the Primes won’t cover that area. Now that I have the proper amount and they are dialed in (running at 62%) I absolutely love them and wouldn’t go back to my old lighting methods as of now but it’s making that investment to get the proper amount or else you’ll end up hating them and stating LEDs don’t work.

serbusfish · 11/04/2017, 08:35 PM

I went to my local fish store and the owner let me play around with their Hydra 52 HD, and honestly I wasn't blown away by it. The greens and reds made almost no difference to the look of the tank whether they were at 0% or 100%, and the overall look was not too dissimilar to my Razor if i'm honest. The light was quite high above the tank so I dont know if that had anything to do with it, but it just didnt have the pop I thought it would have.

HOWEVER.. he also showed me the Radion G4 running on their display tank, and it looked incredible! The colour was perfect, no matter what setting he used it looked so good. I had a long hard think, paced back and fourth some, thought some more, and decided there's no point buying a light at this price point that i'm not going to be happy with, so I came home with a Radion.

I bought 1x XR15 Pro and my plan is to add two more so I can place 1 between each of my brace bars. Does this sound like a good setup? I haven't tested the light over the tank yet due to my Razor still being in place but I did power it on and wow is it bright! Surely three of these is more than enough for a 4ft tank?

zooman72 · 11/05/2017, 10:14 AM

Yes, three of the Radion XR15 Pros would probably be enough for your aquarium.

Light preference is subjective, so if you like the color renditioning, go for it. I personally prefer Maxspect Razors and EcoTech Radions (currently using both on different aquariums). Something to keep in mind - the Razors do have discrete violet diodes, and have sufficient red and green wavelengths in the cool and warm whites, but they are not discrete individual diodes as they are in the Radions (and therefore cannot be adjusted individually). I have both lights near each other and I have them pretty close in color to each other for what it is worth.

jda · 11/05/2017, 02:00 PM

3 XR15s might be enough, depending on what you are keeping. These are probably equivalent to 3x70W MH or a 4 bulb T5 setup. If you need more light, you can always get more.

maddmaxx · 11/05/2017, 08:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jda

AI/EcoTech and Kessil to a lesser degree are almost criminal on the descriptions of their products. They underrate them significantly... they know that if they can get you hooked on one or two, then you will usually end up getting more like hanas did... but if you know up front what it takes, then people might make other decisions.

by underrating them do you mean they should easily be able to cover a 24x24 area??

serbusfish · 11/11/2017, 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jda

3 XR15s might be enough, depending on what you are keeping. These are probably equivalent to 3x70W MH or a 4 bulb T5 setup. If you need more light, you can always get more.

You talk as if these lights are low in the power department, they would easily cook my corals if run too high! 4x T5's dont put out anywhere near the amount of light/par these do. Im running them on 50% at the moment and seriously doubt i'll be going much higher than this.

jda · 11/11/2017, 04:01 PM

The cooking is from the harmful spectrum is some of the diodes - this is not a "too much good light" thing. You can drop a pair of 1000W MH over that tank and not burn the corals with output - this is not smart, but it would not harm the corals. Don't confuse quality with quantity.

4 bulb T5 is about right for a match for those. There is about 50% of the spectrum that is not captured by a normal PAR meter whereas your panels were designed to make a PAR meter pop with a second benefit of growing corals.

10/30/2017, 09:41 AM	#1
serbusfish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 710	3x AI Prime's over a 4ft tank? I am looking to upgrade my lighting, currently running a Maxspect Razor 320w unit but I dont really like the colour as it lacks any red/green/uv led's so ends up looking a little bland (to me at least). I am wondering if 3x AI Primes would be good enough to light a 4ft tank with a depth of 20 inches? Apparently they cover a 24x24 inch radius so I figured they would work well but i'd love some opinions on this? The AI Hydras are out of my price range which is why i'm looking at the Prime instead. __________________ 75 Gallon mixed Reef / Ocellaris Clownfish, Firefish, Royal Gramma, Bangaii Cardinal, Yellow Tang, Coral Beauty, Allen's Damselfish. Progress thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p

10/30/2017, 02:52 PM	#9
Tuffyyyyy Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2017 Posts: 41	BRS has had a few good videos to help guide you: https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...-investigates/ https://www.bulkreefsupply.com/video...d-light-brstv/ __________________ YouTube Channel: http://bit.ly/2sbkb1R My Tanks: IM40 & IM10 Current Tank Info: Innovative Marine 40 and 10

10/30/2017, 03:10 PM	#10
GSMclowns A Reef Enthusiast Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Boston Posts: 364	Don't listen to those LED manufacturers. They do not cover 24" x 24" at all. I have Hydra 52 and it covers about 18" x 18" max.. and Hydra 52 is about 3 time more powerful than that Prime??? __________________ Bao ================================= ><((((º>`·.¸¸.·´¯`·.¸.·´¯`·...¸><((((º> ·´¯`·.¸. , . .·´¯`·.. >((((º>

11/04/2017, 08:35 PM	#12
serbusfish Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Posts: 710	I went to my local fish store and the owner let me play around with their Hydra 52 HD, and honestly I wasn't blown away by it. The greens and reds made almost no difference to the look of the tank whether they were at 0% or 100%, and the overall look was not too dissimilar to my Razor if i'm honest. The light was quite high above the tank so I dont know if that had anything to do with it, but it just didnt have the pop I thought it would have. HOWEVER.. he also showed me the Radion G4 running on their display tank, and it looked incredible! The colour was perfect, no matter what setting he used it looked so good. I had a long hard think, paced back and fourth some, thought some more, and decided there's no point buying a light at this price point that i'm not going to be happy with, so I came home with a Radion. I bought 1x XR15 Pro and my plan is to add two more so I can place 1 between each of my brace bars. Does this sound like a good setup? I haven't tested the light over the tank yet due to my Razor still being in place but I did power it on and wow is it bright! Surely three of these is more than enough for a 4ft tank? __________________ 75 Gallon mixed Reef / Ocellaris Clownfish, Firefish, Royal Gramma, Bangaii Cardinal, Yellow Tang, Coral Beauty, Allen's Damselfish. Progress thread: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p

11/05/2017, 10:14 AM	#13
zooman72 Registered Member Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: Lockport, NY Posts: 1,340	Yes, three of the Radion XR15 Pros would probably be enough for your aquarium. Light preference is subjective, so if you like the color renditioning, go for it. I personally prefer Maxspect Razors and EcoTech Radions (currently using both on different aquariums). Something to keep in mind - the Razors do have discrete violet diodes, and have sufficient red and green wavelengths in the cool and warm whites, but they are not discrete individual diodes as they are in the Radions (and therefore cannot be adjusted individually). I have both lights near each other and I have them pretty close in color to each other for what it is worth. __________________ 7 reef tanks, 5 freshwater tanks, 2 terrariums, 2 dogs, 3 boys, and 1 very understanding wife! Current Tank Info: Marine: Pair of 40B's, 45W, 50g cube, ADA 45F at home...IM Nuvo 20 and 10 at office!

10/30/2017, 09:47 AM	#2
[]V[]addog Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2010 Location: east coast canada Posts: 167	concerned that the middle prime would be right over the support bar of a 4 foot tank. you'd loose a lot of light right where the par would be strongest.

10/30/2017, 10:28 AM	#3
Cheapreef Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2002 Posts: 1,076	What kind of corals are you keeping? Primes are pretty weak, had one was approximately 30% of what one of my Hydra 26.

10/30/2017, 10:48 AM	#4
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	Inhabitant will matter. I would not keep much on the edges of that 24x24 area... 12x12 seems more like it for higher light stuff.

10/30/2017, 11:03 AM	#5
hanas Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fairfield, CT Posts: 795	Primes on that setup would be pretty useless if you're planning on keeping corals, especially SPS . If you're not planning on SPS, then you could probably do 3 x AI Hydra 26 but SPS would require at least 3 - AI Hydra 52s. My tank is 48" long by 28" deep (24" high) and I'm running 4 - AI Hydra 52's. 90% SPS corals and I started with two units and got terrible results. Three units produced a dramatic change and I added the 4th to take care of shading down the road. Put them up about 12-14" off the water line.

10/30/2017, 11:26 AM	#6
hanas Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fairfield, CT Posts: 795	I will also add that had I known it would take 4 units to have good coverage and results with SPS in my tank, I probably would have stayed with T5s or used a MH/T5 unit like I have on my old setups. The upfront cost was significant for these lights but so are the corals and fish that go in the tank as well. It's all what you prefer and what your budget allows.

10/30/2017, 02:46 PM	#8
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	AI/EcoTech and Kessil to a lesser degree are almost criminal on the descriptions of their products. They underrate them significantly... they know that if they can get you hooked on one or two, then you will usually end up getting more like hanas did... but if you know up front what it takes, then people might make other decisions.

10/30/2017, 05:13 PM	#11
hanas Premium Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Fairfield, CT Posts: 795	Serbusfish - jda is correct and from my personal experience the Primes won’t cover that area. Now that I have the proper amount and they are dialed in (running at 62%) I absolutely love them and wouldn’t go back to my old lighting methods as of now but it’s making that investment to get the proper amount or else you’ll end up hating them and stating LEDs don’t work.

11/05/2017, 02:00 PM	#14
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	3 XR15s might be enough, depending on what you are keeping. These are probably equivalent to 3x70W MH or a 4 bulb T5 setup. If you need more light, you can always get more.

11/11/2017, 04:01 PM	#17
jda Dogmatic Dinosaur Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Boulder, CO Posts: 6,256	The cooking is from the harmful spectrum is some of the diodes - this is not a "too much good light" thing. You can drop a pair of 1000W MH over that tank and not burn the corals with output - this is not smart, but it would not harm the corals. Don't confuse quality with quantity. 4 bulb T5 is about right for a match for those. There is about 50% of the spectrum that is not captured by a normal PAR meter whereas your panels were designed to make a PAR meter pop with a second benefit of growing corals.