No luck with flame angels...need help to save him pls.

allendehl · 11/19/2017, 12:47 PM

Hi guys

Bought a Flame Angel along with a Coral Beauty and a Yelloe Sripped 4 days ago in mt LFS. When capturing the flame it jumped out of the net and fell hard on the floor. It was the only one left so I told the guy that I would keep an eye on him and call him if something happened. Sure enough it didn't make it through the first night of TTM.
Went back to the LFS and he gave a replacement from a new batch yesterday. Today it is laying his side very weak. It still can swim if I pull it up but a few mins later is back down.

I changed the water for fresh one as before putting them in the new TTM tank when I brought it yesterday. I acclimated him, and gravity is at 1.025 in the TTM tank.All other angels are fine and no sign of scuffle.

Need help in trying to save him and finding out what could be going wrong.

Thanks!

SAT · 11/19/2017, 04:50 PM

Bummer! This won't be a very satisfying answer, but once a fish gets into that state there is probably nothing further you can do for him.

IMO, the LFS should not have let you take a fish that fell on the floor.

The best fish stores will hold fish for some time before offering for sale, making sure they are eating and have survived the travel stress. The mortality for fish from "a new batch" is often very high -- with not much you can do about it.

allendehl · 11/19/2017, 08:37 PM

Thank you Sat. Fish is still in the same condition. I am surprised he made it this long. For lack of anything else I just put him in for about 10 secs in fresh rodi water, not sure if that is the correct way to do a "fresh water dip" or if it helps at all but...I guess it wont hurt.
We'll see.

SAT · 11/19/2017, 09:31 PM

A FW dip is probably as good as anything. For next time you do that, it's best if you match the temperature, add a bit of baking soda as buffer, and make sure it's well aerated. Use a clear container so you can tell if anything falls off the fish.

I hope he recovers.

ca1ore · 11/19/2017, 10:36 PM

I've never been a big fan of throwing a new fish into tank transfer, or any aggressive treatment, right away. Flames are quite delicate and can die for no apparent reason. I much prefer to give them some time in QT to get acclimated and eating. Many of the diseases that can pop up aren't immediately fatal, so you really do have some time.

anthonys51 · 11/19/2017, 11:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ca1ore

I've never been a big fan of throwing a new fish into tank transfer, or any aggressive treatment, right away. Flames are quite delicate and can die for no apparent reason. I much prefer to give them some time in QT to get acclimated and eating. Many of the diseases that can pop up aren't immediately fatal, so you really do have some time.

I second this.
Those poor fish where caught in a boat held in a storage tank. Then placed in another tank in some far far away country. Then shipped 12-18 hours to an airport where they wait to be picked up. Then some wholesaler has them fir a day to a week. Then your lfs has them for a day. Then you walk in throw accumulate it to a higher saltily and throw it in a tank with no rock , no hiding places (maybe a pvc pipe) probably only feeding it once maybe 2 times a day. Oh wait instead of doing this by itself you add 2 tank mates as potential bully’s.

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Daddi0 · 11/19/2017, 11:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

I second this.
Those poor fish where caught in a boat held in a storage tank. Then placed in another tank in some far far away country. Then shipped 12-18 hours to an airport where they wait to be picked up. Then some wholesaler has them fir a day to a week. Then your lfs has them for a day. Then you walk in throw accumulate it to a higher saltily and throw it in a tank with no rock , no hiding places (maybe a pvc pipe) probably only feeding it once maybe 2 times a day. Oh wait instead of doing this by itself you add 2 tank mates as potential bully’s.

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Dont forget the fact that they starve the fish for a week to clear its bowels each time it is shipped so they dont crap in transit and pollute the water they are shipped in.

anthonys51 · 11/19/2017, 11:18 PM

Lol yes being half starved to death in this whole process too

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anthonys51 · 11/19/2017, 11:21 PM

Also I never buy fish that come in to my lfs until they been there a couple weeks . I normally stop there once a week for something anyway. My powder blue tang was at the store for a month before I bought it.

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nanosteve309 · 11/20/2017, 07:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anthonys51

I second this.
Those poor fish where caught in a boat held in a storage tank. Then placed in another tank in some far far away country. Then shipped 12-18 hours to an airport where they wait to be picked up. Then some wholesaler has them fir a day to a week. Then your lfs has them for a day. Then you walk in throw accumulate it to a higher saltily and throw it in a tank with no rock , no hiding places (maybe a pvc pipe) probably only feeding it once maybe 2 times a day. Oh wait instead of doing this by itself you add 2 tank mates as potential bully’s.

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Man, the sad truth

JTL · 11/20/2017, 09:20 AM

I am doing a ttm right now with 3 fish I purchased from LA and they are doing fine. I put some sand in a bowl for my wrasse and he was sleeping so sound this AM that i though he was dead.

anthonys51 · 11/20/2017, 09:24 AM

Just because you get away with it a few times doesn’t make it the correct or sound thing to do. Fish that are more sensitive will not survive. It’s your fish you can do what you want with them. Heck you can filet them and eat them. But I would put them in a separate tank already running with live rock and observe for a month. Feed the heck out of them and do weekly wAter changes.

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JTL · 11/20/2017, 10:04 AM

ttm is an accepted protocol for prophylactic treatment of fish whether you like it or not. I make sure the containers are sufficiently large 15-20 gallons of water, that the SG and temp are perfectly matched and feed the fish 2x per day. At any hint of increased ammonia I do a partial wc. I also make sure there are plenty of hiding places and no bright lights.

anthonys51 · 11/20/2017, 10:11 AM

I am sorry but show me where you read that doing ttm with 3 Fish at once was protocol. Also show me where you read ttm or qt 2 draft angels st once was a good idea. Think we might have some fake news here

. Putting 2 dwarf angels in a 15 or 20 gallon of water is just plain silly, I could use another work that starts with s but trying to be productive. I don’t think 2 dwarfs in a 55 gallon tank is the best idea. I have been keeping saltwater fish since 1994, I am no expert but I learned a little in my years. What you did wasn’t smart period

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JTL · 11/20/2017, 10:38 AM

I think you should read before jump on me. I don't have any angels. I have 3 very small compatible fish and 15 gallons of water in a 30 gallon tub is just fine for a few days for ttm. They appear to be relaxed and have great appetites. Larger fish I agree need more room. "yes size counts" You do it your way and I will do it my way and I can do without your not so polite comments. Obtw I started sw tanks in 1985 and have made my share of mistakes and have learned a lot, I am still learning so I rarely get on people for doing things different than I would.

anthonys51 · 11/23/2017, 02:12 PM

The op is doing ttm with 2 angels in 15 gallon tank. You stAted you have done 3 Fish at one time. I simple stated 2 angels in 15 gallon ttm tank is stupid in my opinion. You actually stated you don’t have angels. So why are you joining this conversation. I might sound like the rude one here and if so so be it. But your giving advice on ttm Fish thAt you didn’t keep. Op needed help on flame angels and why they keep dying in ttm. My advice is simple don’t ttm newly purchased flame angels while ttm a coral beauty. It’s was too stressful for the flame who is not as durable of a fish as the coral beauty. Flame are really bad shippers.

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11/19/2017, 12:47 PM	#1
allendehl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 692	No luck with flame angels...need help to save him pls. Hi guys Bought a Flame Angel along with a Coral Beauty and a Yelloe Sripped 4 days ago in mt LFS. When capturing the flame it jumped out of the net and fell hard on the floor. It was the only one left so I told the guy that I would keep an eye on him and call him if something happened. Sure enough it didn't make it through the first night of TTM. Went back to the LFS and he gave a replacement from a new batch yesterday. Today it is laying his side very weak. It still can swim if I pull it up but a few mins later is back down. I changed the water for fresh one as before putting them in the new TTM tank when I brought it yesterday. I acclimated him, and gravity is at 1.025 in the TTM tank.All other angels are fine and no sign of scuffle. Need help in trying to save him and finding out what could be going wrong. Thanks! __________________ [Newbie here so please take my opinions carefully] Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350 (72G) \| Jebao DCT 4000 (1056 GPH Max) \| Reef Octopus 152-S \| 2 X Jebao PP8 (2100 GPH Max)

11/19/2017, 04:50 PM	#2
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	Bummer! This won't be a very satisfying answer, but once a fish gets into that state there is probably nothing further you can do for him. IMO, the LFS should not have let you take a fish that fell on the floor. The best fish stores will hold fish for some time before offering for sale, making sure they are eating and have survived the travel stress. The mortality for fish from "a new batch" is often very high -- with not much you can do about it. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

11/19/2017, 08:37 PM	#3
allendehl Registered Member Join Date: Aug 2017 Location: Miami, FL Posts: 692	Thank you Sat. Fish is still in the same condition. I am surprised he made it this long. For lack of anything else I just put him in for about 10 secs in fresh rodi water, not sure if that is the correct way to do a "fresh water dip" or if it helps at all but...I guess it wont hurt. We'll see. __________________ [Newbie here so please take my opinions carefully] Current Tank Info: Red Sea Reefer 350 (72G) \| Jebao DCT 4000 (1056 GPH Max) \| Reef Octopus 152-S \| 2 X Jebao PP8 (2100 GPH Max)

11/19/2017, 09:31 PM	#4
SAT Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Berwyn, PA Posts: 4,073 Blog Entries: 1	A FW dip is probably as good as anything. For next time you do that, it's best if you match the temperature, add a bit of baking soda as buffer, and make sure it's well aerated. Use a clear container so you can tell if anything falls off the fish. I hope he recovers. __________________ Stuart Current Tank Info: 300G Caribbean biotype reef set up in 2003.

11/19/2017, 10:36 PM	#5
ca1ore Grizzled & Cynical Join Date: Apr 2006 Location: Stamford, CT Posts: 17,319	I've never been a big fan of throwing a new fish into tank transfer, or any aggressive treatment, right away. Flames are quite delicate and can die for no apparent reason. I much prefer to give them some time in QT to get acclimated and eating. Many of the diseases that can pop up aren't immediately fatal, so you really do have some time. __________________ Simon Got back into the hobby ..... planned to keep it simple ..... yeah, right ..... clearly I need a new plan! Pet peeve: anemones host clowns; clowns do not host anemones! Current Tank Info: 450 Reef; 120 refugium; 60 Frag Tank, 30 Introduction tank; multiple QTs

11/19/2017, 11:18 PM	#8
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Lol yes being half starved to death in this whole process too Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

11/19/2017, 11:21 PM	#9
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Also I never buy fish that come in to my lfs until they been there a couple weeks . I normally stop there once a week for something anyway. My powder blue tang was at the store for a month before I bought it. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

11/20/2017, 09:20 AM	#11
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	I am doing a ttm right now with 3 fish I purchased from LA and they are doing fine. I put some sand in a bowl for my wrasse and he was sleeping so sound this AM that i though he was dead. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

11/20/2017, 09:24 AM	#12
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	Just because you get away with it a few times doesn’t make it the correct or sound thing to do. Fish that are more sensitive will not survive. It’s your fish you can do what you want with them. Heck you can filet them and eat them. But I would put them in a separate tank already running with live rock and observe for a month. Feed the heck out of them and do weekly wAter changes. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

11/20/2017, 10:04 AM	#13
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	ttm is an accepted protocol for prophylactic treatment of fish whether you like it or not. I make sure the containers are sufficiently large 15-20 gallons of water, that the SG and temp are perfectly matched and feed the fish 2x per day. At any hint of increased ammonia I do a partial wc. I also make sure there are plenty of hiding places and no bright lights. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+.

11/20/2017, 10:11 AM	#14
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	I am sorry but show me where you read that doing ttm with 3 Fish at once was protocol. Also show me where you read ttm or qt 2 draft angels st once was a good idea. Think we might have some fake news here . Putting 2 dwarf angels in a 15 or 20 gallon of water is just plain silly, I could use another work that starts with s but trying to be productive. I don’t think 2 dwarfs in a 55 gallon tank is the best idea. I have been keeping saltwater fish since 1994, I am no expert but I learned a little in my years. What you did wasn’t smart period Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro

11/20/2017, 10:38 AM	#15
JTL Registered Member Join Date: Jun 2003 Location: Venice Island, FL Posts: 2,532	I think you should read before jump on me. I don't have any angels. I have 3 very small compatible fish and 15 gallons of water in a 30 gallon tub is just fine for a few days for ttm. They appear to be relaxed and have great appetites. Larger fish I agree need more room. "yes size counts" You do it your way and I will do it my way and I can do without your not so polite comments. Obtw I started sw tanks in 1985 and have made my share of mistakes and have learned a lot, I am still learning so I rarely get on people for doing things different than I would. __________________ John 100 gallon DT and 50 gallon sump with refugium. Reefbreeders Photon V2+. Last edited by JTL; 11/20/2017 at 11:08 AM.

11/23/2017, 02:12 PM	#16
anthonys51 Registered Member. Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Kings Park, NY Posts: 2,789	The op is doing ttm with 2 angels in 15 gallon tank. You stAted you have done 3 Fish at one time. I simple stated 2 angels in 15 gallon ttm tank is stupid in my opinion. You actually stated you don’t have angels. So why are you joining this conversation. I might sound like the rude one here and if so so be it. But your giving advice on ttm Fish thAt you didn’t keep. Op needed help on flame angels and why they keep dying in ttm. My advice is simple don’t ttm newly purchased flame angels while ttm a coral beauty. It’s was too stressful for the flame who is not as durable of a fish as the coral beauty. Flame are really bad shippers. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Pro