Relatively new to the hobby

[Louis1959]

Hi all, been on a few times. I am no pro by any means. But I am starting to understand a little bit......lol.

I am looking to up size, probably a 125 gallon or better, 180/200 tops!

Id like to set up a sump/refugium for it directly underneath.
Is it recommended to keep two separate enclosures for sump & refugium?
or is okay to combine?
What is minimum size sump/refugium combo. or separate enclosures recommended for lets say a 180 display tank.

I expect to keep live rock, fish, & soft corals. I sincerely believe I am not ready for any SPS etc. I really have to learn how to control my lighting and water movement. Also what species of life will co-habitat best.

I presently have a 54 gallon corner bow tank which does okay, but my sump is tiny, undersized protein skimmer. But all in all I can't complain.

[DreadCapn]

"Probably a 125 gallon or better, 180/200 tops! Ok, maybe 275. You see, going 330 isn't really that much more expensive. I would have been throwing money away if I didn't bump up to 400."

Most of your answers just boil down to 'what's your space like, what do you want to do'. I have a separate sump and refugium, because I wanted what is essentially a display refugium. If you want a fuge for nutrient export, make sure it's what you want - there really are better options out there if that is all you are wanting it to do. If I was putting it all under a tank, it would definitely be in one enclosure/tank.

The minimum size of your sump is dictated by what equipment you are putting in it - that's how big it *has* to be - the main purpose of a sump is just to hide all of your equipment.

The secondary purpose is to add to your total water volume. It's not required to do so, but every gallon you add ultimately increases the stability of your system. In that way the size answer is always "the largest sump/fuge you can accommodate"

[lapin]

I totally agree with DreadCapn. Space usually limits the size. The one advantage of having the refugium separate is that if you want to clean or change it up, you don' disturb the sump. Changing out sand while the sump is working makes a good size cloud of junk headed to the display tank.

[TokiHacker]

people are getting crazier and crazier adding fish into tanks that are not suppose to be there.....

[ReeferNoob4ever]

I know Toki I do it all the time. Engineer goby in a 20 gallon. What are we thinking...excuse to upgrade.

[TokiHacker]

Originally Posted by ReeferNoob4ever

I know Toki I do it all the time. Engineer goby in a 20 gallon. What are we thinking...excuse to upgrade.

I think people are just trying to make reasons to upgrade to larger tanks every time we turn around haha. my 200 is enough work as it is let alone all the other miscellaneous ones that I have around.

[ReeferNoob4ever]

It really is an addiction, I don't care what anyone tries to call it!

[JUNBUG361]

Agree ^

[Louis1959]

You know what, no matter where you go, there are useless people in the world. This is no different than Stripers online.
Tokihacker, ReeferNoob4ever, & Junbug361 . Could you please tell me what benefit either of the 3 of you just offered.
If you have nothing useful to add, eeehhhhhh I won't bother.
Just useless.

[nereefpat]

I suppose Tokihacker was commenting on the regal tang in your 54gallon.

Anyway...

If I was looking for a sump for a 180, I would probably build my own from a standard 55-75 gallon. Definitely no smaller than a 40 breeder. I would do the fuge/sump in the same tank.

Like mentioned, a sump has to hold all your equipment. In your case this also includes a fuge. Also, the sump has to have enough capacity to not overflow when the return pump is shut off.

[TokiHacker]

Originally Posted by Louis1959

You know what, no matter where you go, there are useless people in the world. This is no different than Stripers online.
Tokihacker, ReeferNoob4ever, & Junbug361 . Could you please tell me what benefit either of the 3 of you just offered.
If you have nothing useful to add, eeehhhhhh I won't bother.
Just useless.

Refer to the comment below.

Originally Posted by nereefpat

I suppose Tokihacker was commenting on the regal tang in your 54gallon.

Anyway...

If I was looking for a sump for a 180, I would probably build my own from a standard 55-75 gallon. Definitely no smaller than a 40 breeder. I would do the fuge/sump in the same tank.

Like mentioned, a sump has to hold all your equipment. In your case this also includes a fuge. Also, the sump has to have enough capacity to not overflow when the return pump is shut off.

That is exactly what I was referring to since that is inhumane for the fish. People do it all the time. It was a nice way to try and bring it to attention without having a TANG POLICE moment. And your comment was productive? I would say no.... So chill out and have a good time since that is exactly what this forum is suppose to be. HELPING.

[TokiHacker]

Originally Posted by Louis1959

Hi all, been on a few times. I am no pro by any means. But I am starting to understand a little bit......lol.

I am looking to up size, probably a 125 gallon or better, 180/200 tops!

Id like to set up a sump/refugium for it directly underneath.
Is it recommended to keep two separate enclosures for sump & refugium? Not Particularly
or is okay to combine? Yes it is, that's how mine is and always has been
What is minimum size sump/refugium combo. or separate enclosures recommended for lets say a 180 display tank.
I personally use a 100g under my 200 that has a center fuge

I expect to keep live rock, fish, & soft corals. I sincerely believe I am not ready for any SPS etc. I really have to learn how to control my lighting and water movement. Also what species of life will co-habitat best.

most softies don't really create any issues with each other. be aware of softies and polyps that are overly invasive since they can take over your tank

I presently have a 54 gallon corner bow tank which does okay, but my sump is tiny, undersized protein skimmer. But all in all I can't complain.

[sde1500]

Originally Posted by TokiHacker

That is exactly what I was referring to since that is inhumane for the fish. People do it all the time. It was a nice way to try and bring it to attention without having a TANG POLICE moment. And your comment was productive? I would say no.... So chill out and have a good time since that is exactly what this forum is suppose to be. HELPING.

But it accomplishes nothing except not answer his questions literally about getting a bigger tank. He has one, and is getting a bigger tank suitable for it. This isn't some "check out my tank" post. So it really was nothing but a tang police moment, because it was nothing more than a snide comment that in no way offered help either with his questions or current fish list.


OT:
You can definitely keep the sump/fuge separate. Though it is probably easiest to combine in one and control the flow that enters each section. The general recommendation I believe is 10% of display size, but it really depends on what you want to use the fuge for. The minimum size for an overall sump is harder to answer. Get one big enough that can handle the water that back siphons during a power outage is all that I can recommend. Get one big enough to hold all the equipment you want to put in it too.

[TokiHacker]

man... a lot of you people sure are sensitive.... and you know what? ok it was a tang police moment.... it is an issue with currently in the situation since he/she is "looking" to upgrade. It would be more of a requirement vs. thinking and not for that particular fish. Maybe I should have been a little more thorough with the information I was trying to provide. I was simply trying to be nice about it vs. some of the comments that I have seen that aren't not only not nice but down right mean. It SHOULD be said that the Blue Tang that is currently in that system needs a larger system. That is information that could and WILL be important for the choosing of the system. I should have explained it better but instead of making snide comments to ME, how about we be adults and simply ask. Ill be more than happy to elaborate. On another note, I did answer all of the questions for the OP in reference to a tank around 200 gallons, hopefully that will suffice for what the OP is looking for. No need for everyone to be so sensitive.



Also on another note, the min for a blue tang is 180g which is highly important since the TOPS is 180-200. The dang fish gets a foot or more and I have seen them that size in captivity.

[TokiHacker]

Originally Posted by Louis1959

You know what, no matter where you go, there are useless people in the world. This is no different than Stripers online.
Tokihacker, ReeferNoob4ever, & Junbug361 . Could you please tell me what benefit either of the 3 of you just offered.
If you have nothing useful to add, eeehhhhhh I won't bother.
Just useless.

Also on another note, I am not useless.

BTW there was nothing negative in regards to the comments! It was saying that we buy fish to have reasons to upgrade.

[Louis1959]

ok, thank you all, much better on the clarity.

I understand that most of you have earned your experience in this hobby through trial and error , along with research, and asking questions.
And it may be frustrating to you all when you see "STUPID"(Tang in a 54 gallon) **** being done.
But remember, most of us newbies are relying on our local pet shops to give us valid info.
Bottom line, they are there to sell product. I don't give a **** how knowledgeable they are, their bottom line is paying the bills.
So as a consumer, we can be at their whim.
And if we search out a website such as this, the last thing we need is some smartass who thinks they are a know it all because they have been doing it for awhile.

If you have knowledge, pass it along, clearly, concisely, and with compassion for the animals you quote/unquote love.
Don't turn off the perspective hobbyist by trashing a mistake they made. Teach not ridicule.

[TokiHacker]

Originally Posted by Louis1959

ok, thank you all, much better on the clarity.

I understand that most of you have earned your experience in this hobby through trial and error , along with research, and asking questions.
And it may be frustrating to you all when you see "STUPID"(Tang in a 54 gallon) **** being done.
But remember, most of us newbies are relying on our local pet shops to give us valid info.
Bottom line, they are there to sell product. I don't give a **** how knowledgeable they are, their bottom line is paying the bills.
So as a consumer, we can be at their whim.
And if we search out a website such as this, the last thing we need is some smartass who thinks they are a know it all because they have been doing it for awhile.

If you have knowledge, pass it along, clearly, concisely, and with compassion for the animals you quote/unquote love.
Don't turn off the perspective hobbyist by trashing a mistake they made. Teach not ridicule.

Understandable..... Been doing this for 25+ years, have owned my own shop. If I came off harsh I am sincerely sorry that is not how I read it. Please utilize liveaquaria as that is very close to proper recommendations to prevent the fish that we all as you say quote/unquote love from dying from disease, particularly from stress.

Thank you for being more of an adult with a good response instead of child throwing a fit and understanding that a mistake was made. We definitely were not being a smart a$$ about it, it was a joke that is saying that people that are naïve in the beginning catch themselves HAVING to upgrade to keep the fish that they were improperly sold. Just a nice simple joke. Happens to the best of us.

[Louis1959]

All good TokiHacker ! I have had all sorts of aquariums, fresh and salt for over 40 years. Between life, wives(yea , now that area you can call me stupid.....lol) , kids that I am crazy involved with between sports, academics, music, etc. I just dont have the time always to devote the proper research.

I generally do fine with trial and error research. Proper tanking with salt, i am not too knowledgable as of yet, but that tang seems to be pretty healthy, at least as best as i can tell. Coloration always seems to be brilliant. never notice any stressed breathing. And the SOB is always 1st in line to eat . . . . . lol.

Where i am finding my biggest issues is introducing any SPS ,(forgive me if I get acronyms wrong). After several failed attempts with nems, some soft corals, hardier SPS, i finally found a fella in a LFS that asked me about my lighting. BINGO ! ! ! !

My chems are always damn near perfect , even with the POS protein skimmer I have now. I have had the one huge finger soft coral forever, almost since the beginning of this tank. Almost 2 years now. I know, my tank is still a juvenile. But I am not going through what i went through during my 1st year with her.
Green hair algae battles , 3x ! ! ! ! ! ! God what a hassle.

But to the crux, I want to go bigger to be able to house better filtration capabilities. Protein Skimmer specifically. More Live coral types, but need to learn so much more.
So if you are ever interested in giving any one on one lessons, feel free to chime up, and Ill try to keep my sense of humor up when you are busting my shoes for my dumb *** mistakes......lol My name is Lou lfalsett59@gmail.com

[TokiHacker]

Originally Posted by Louis1959

All good TokiHacker ! I have had all sorts of aquariums, fresh and salt for over 40 years. Between life, wives(yea , now that area you can call me stupid.....lol) , kids that I am crazy involved with between sports, academics, music, etc. I just dont have the time always to devote the proper research.

I generally do fine with trial and error research. Proper tanking with salt, i am not too knowledgable as of yet, but that tang seems to be pretty healthy, at least as best as i can tell. Coloration always seems to be brilliant. never notice any stressed breathing. And the SOB is always 1st in line to eat . . . . . lol.

Where i am finding my biggest issues is introducing any SPS ,(forgive me if I get acronyms wrong). After several failed attempts with nems, some soft corals, hardier SPS, i finally found a fella in a LFS that asked me about my lighting. BINGO ! ! ! !

My chems are always damn near perfect , even with the POS protein skimmer I have now. I have had the one huge finger soft coral forever, almost since the beginning of this tank. Almost 2 years now. I know, my tank is still a juvenile. But I am not going through what i went through during my 1st year with her.
Green hair algae battles , 3x ! ! ! ! ! ! God what a hassle.

But to the crux, I want to go bigger to be able to house better filtration capabilities. Protein Skimmer specifically. More Live coral types, but need to learn so much more.
So if you are ever interested in giving any one on one lessons, feel free to chime up, and Ill try to keep my sense of humor up when you are busting my shoes for my dumb *** mistakes......lol My name is Lou lfalsett59@gmail.com

Anytime you have questions please don’t hesitate to ask here. I can PROMISE you the guys and gals here are way more experienced than your LFS and much more than me. Haha! These guys can break down the scientific crap of it all. I just know how to keep them alive and happy. I am never one to keep the rare hard to keep SPS, but there are some beautiful Tank keepers here that can without a problem!


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[TokiHacker]

Also, it wasn’t a direct stab more as a joke. That’s all especially since it’s not shoved in a 10g it’s in a decent size tank for its size. Is was a more aware of what is going to eventually come of it. Ya know?


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[Louis1959]

TokiHacker, I have a question for u , and anyone else who would like to chime in.
As most of you I am sure are aware, a 54 corner bow sucks for storage/sump space underneath the stand. I have a protein skimmer down there now that really is wasting space.
Ive given it a few vinegar baths, but the pump and air just never seems to hold tight. Basically I have given up on it.

The chamber that holds the protein skimmer has dimensions of
5-1/2" wide x 9-1/2" deep x 12" overall height, but the divider/partition to the next chamber is only about 9" high. So my water level height never is higher than 9" in the sump.

And I have forced hot air for heat, so high water evaporation rate!

So as previously stated , I am probably upgrading to a bigger Display tank and will therefore be housing a much bigger sump area, so I imagine present issues will be resolved. But in the meantime, I need a functioning Protein skimmer.

I have researched a few, but the immersed units are expensive. I know I could keep it and place it in the new system, but my thoughts are, if I were to purchase something that will fit this present sump will be insufficient for bigger setup.

I saw the Tunze 9004 for $150, and thought that might work. Not too expensive, its rated for up to a 65. I know they over rate, but do you think it could hold me over until I get new system, within 3 - 6 months at most!

Or do you suggest i get my existing protein skimmer functioning properly? Which at this point I am clueless.

Okay guys , have at it! I can take it ,I think, if you need to break my chops......lol

PS SOCK is being changed out today.

[sde1500]

A skimmer is nice to have but definitely not a necessity. You could just try going without for the 3-6 months.

[TokiHacker]

Definitely looks cramped. Slimmer wise there is a eshopps skimmer I use on s 55 high that would fit in there or HOB if you prefer that


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