Steady .25 ammonia in established Quarantine hypo tank

Swensos · 02/27/2017, 05:32 PM

My fish have been in a 20 gallon qt hypo for about three weeks. The QT has been set up since September and completed its cycle in November (powerhead pointed at surface, live rock, and heater). I haven't had a showing of ammonia or nitrites since the cycle, except suddenly this weekend. Last week I did a prazipro treatment, half dose and then another half twelve hours later, to finish the prazi protocol. My lubbocks wrasse seemed to become sluggish and not want to eat, so I dropped some fresh carbon in a bag in the tank after the treatment had been 24 hours. He bounced back.

I think I was overfeeding (about 1/8 teaspoon fish frenzy twice a day), because I had a bacterial bloom for about a week despite my weekly water changes. Then, last Friday everything cleared up, but now it was showing .25 ammonia on my API kit (I test ammonia and salinity daily for hypo). I tested some RODI water and another tank that is cycling and they both show 0 ammonia, so I don't think it's the kit.

Since Friday I have done 30 percent daily water changes and only fed about three tiny flakes of food one time, but the ammonia is just sticking at .25. I do a small dose of prime once a night for now, but I am going to get some biospira. Lubbocks wrasse is not happy and has been hiding under a rock for four days. The fang blenny is happy as can be. Anything I can do to make sure the wrasse doesn't die in the meantime?

Amm: .25
Nitrites: 0
Nitrates: 0
Temp: 78 (never below 75, but I do have slight temp swings in a 24 hr period)
Salinity: 1.010
ph: 7.6

Potatohead · 02/27/2017, 05:41 PM

API kit with Prime as water conditioner will always show as .25, if you are using those.

Swensos · 02/27/2017, 05:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Potatohead

API kit with Prime as water conditioner will always show as .25, if you are using those.

I am, but there would still have to be ammonia for the prime to bind with to create ammonium and show up on the kit, which would mean the bacteria isn't doing its job, right?

heathlindner25 · 02/27/2017, 05:43 PM

Just my opinion. .... when it comes to wrasse and they're showing stress in quarantine, I would place them in the display tank. And I know a lot of people disagree but that is what I would do.
But just for the record I never quarantine any wrasse I get. I just buy from a good supplier and they're too delicate.

Swensos · 02/27/2017, 05:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by heathlindner25

Just my opinion. .... when it comes to wrasse and they're showing stress in quarantine, I would place them in the display tank. And I know a lot of people disagree but that is what I would do.
But just for the record I never quarantine any wrasse I get. I just buy from a good supplier and they're too delicate.

I wish that was an option, but my display tank is still in the build phase and the rock just started 0 ammonia and 0 nitrites last week, half full with water. It needs a major water change and I don't even have a return from the sump plumbed into it. If he/she dies, my lesson is to always have a fully functional stable dt before quarantining a wrasse.

But of course she had ich too, so I probably wouldn't put her in the dt until the hypo was complete. So, she'd be screwed either way.

Swensos · 02/27/2017, 05:55 PM

Random add on question: Could adding freshly-mixed saltwater- i.e. mixed it, tested salinity, and poured it in- negatively effect the bacterial filtration? I usually wait a while for the salt to buffer, but last week I didn't.

gone fishin · 02/27/2017, 06:05 PM

I believe the way the seachem prime works it can cause a false positive on most ammonia tests. Just by coincidence seachem suggests using their ammonia kit when using prime. Good luck

ericarenee · 02/27/2017, 07:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I believe the way the seachem prime works it can cause a false positive on most ammonia tests. Just by coincidence seachem suggests using their ammonia kit when using prime. Good luck

This is true . even there Test kit will show false positive.. When i have ammonia in QT Tank I use amquel.. then a few hours later i will do a large water change in the tank... Then test for ammonia and its usually reduced or gone...

TokiHacker · 02/27/2017, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericarenee

This is true . even there Test kit will show false positive.. When i have ammonia in QT Tank I use amquel.. then a few hours later i will do a large water change in the tank... Then test for ammonia and its usually reduced or gone...

+1 always a false positive

thegrun · 02/27/2017, 10:42 PM

Wrasses often do not take Prazipro well, I've had much better luck only treating them with a 75% of the recommended dosage treatment.

Swensos · 02/28/2017, 04:51 PM

Well, that's good to know. Especially since it's not going up. Tonight, the ammonia is the barely greenish yellow between 0 and .25ppm. And my lubbock's wrasse came out for a minute in the morning to say hi. He still looks like ****, but it's an improvement. Thank you everyone for the emotional support while I dealt with this crisis. Panicked aquarists usually do more harm than good.

Swensos · 02/28/2017, 04:58 PM

And I decided to feed a teeny tiny bit of food right now soaked in selcon. My wrasse shot out of the rocks like a bullet to get some! I guess his days of living under a rock are temporarily paused! Score!

scooter31707 · 03/01/2017, 10:33 AM

I have also learned that it takes awhile for Wrasses to get use to their new environment.

Swensos · 03/01/2017, 04:41 PM

0 ammonia and 0 nitrites today. I made it.

The lubbock's wrasse was actually swimming around in the water column and never hid until the ammonia spike. He actually encouraged the fang blenny to come out, because he was fearless and eating well for weeks.

CindyK · 03/01/2017, 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ericarenee

This is true . even there Test kit will show false positive.. When i have ammonia in QT Tank I use amquel.. then a few hours later i will do a large water change in the tank... Then test for ammonia and its usually reduced or gone...

Of course they do they wanna sell their stuff :0

I had an issue with Prime recently, had an exquisite wrasse in QT that I was using Prime nightly as "insurance" as the bottle directed, 1ml/10gal. (10 gal QT, I had used Biospira but I think I didn't use enough media for it to populate on. Stupid.). Wrasse started acting lethargic, breathing heavily, etc. Checked my ammonia it read 1.5 using Salifert test - yikes! Luckily I had another tank going for another QT fish. I moved the wrasse, next day she was fine.

I did some reading and found this article. Apparently, depending on which kind of reagent the ammonia test uses, it may be more or less accurate when using Prime or other binders:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/

I have to wonder if Prime is dose dependent, meaning that the higher the ammonia, the more you need. I was dosing by water volume per bottle instructions and my fish was still affected. I assume that without an effective biofilter my ammonia climbed beyond the dose I was giving every 24 hours.

Lmax8rn · 02/25/2018, 09:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gone fishin

I believe the way the seachem prime works it can cause a false positive on most ammonia tests. Just by coincidence seachem suggests using their ammonia kit when using prime. Good luck

I had no idea!!! Thanks, I have an established 240 and use prime, ammonia level is always 0.25. Now I know why!

02/27/2017, 05:32 PM	#1
Swensos Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 149	Steady .25 ammonia in established Quarantine hypo tank My fish have been in a 20 gallon qt hypo for about three weeks. The QT has been set up since September and completed its cycle in November (powerhead pointed at surface, live rock, and heater). I haven't had a showing of ammonia or nitrites since the cycle, except suddenly this weekend. Last week I did a prazipro treatment, half dose and then another half twelve hours later, to finish the prazi protocol. My lubbocks wrasse seemed to become sluggish and not want to eat, so I dropped some fresh carbon in a bag in the tank after the treatment had been 24 hours. He bounced back. I think I was overfeeding (about 1/8 teaspoon fish frenzy twice a day), because I had a bacterial bloom for about a week despite my weekly water changes. Then, last Friday everything cleared up, but now it was showing .25 ammonia on my API kit (I test ammonia and salinity daily for hypo). I tested some RODI water and another tank that is cycling and they both show 0 ammonia, so I don't think it's the kit. Since Friday I have done 30 percent daily water changes and only fed about three tiny flakes of food one time, but the ammonia is just sticking at .25. I do a small dose of prime once a night for now, but I am going to get some biospira. Lubbocks wrasse is not happy and has been hiding under a rock for four days. The fang blenny is happy as can be. Anything I can do to make sure the wrasse doesn't die in the meantime? Amm: .25 Nitrites: 0 Nitrates: 0 Temp: 78 (never below 75, but I do have slight temp swings in a 24 hr period) Salinity: 1.010 ph: 7.6

02/27/2017, 06:05 PM	#7
gone fishin Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Wyocena Wi Posts: 6,936	I believe the way the seachem prime works it can cause a false positive on most ammonia tests. Just by coincidence seachem suggests using their ammonia kit when using prime. Good luck __________________ Tony Current Tank Info: 180gal DT, BM NAC77 skimmer,3 Maxspect razors, Maxspect Gyre 150, 30g QT

02/27/2017, 05:41 PM	#2
Potatohead Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2016 Location: Vancouver Posts: 1,596	API kit with Prime as water conditioner will always show as .25, if you are using those.

02/27/2017, 05:43 PM	#4
heathlindner25 Moved On Join Date: May 2012 Location: flowery branch georgia Posts: 3,644	Just my opinion. .... when it comes to wrasse and they're showing stress in quarantine, I would place them in the display tank. And I know a lot of people disagree but that is what I would do. But just for the record I never quarantine any wrasse I get. I just buy from a good supplier and they're too delicate.

02/27/2017, 05:55 PM	#6
Swensos Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 149	Random add on question: Could adding freshly-mixed saltwater- i.e. mixed it, tested salinity, and poured it in- negatively effect the bacterial filtration? I usually wait a while for the salt to buffer, but last week I didn't.

02/27/2017, 10:42 PM	#10
thegrun Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: Garden Grove, Ca Posts: 17,023	Wrasses often do not take Prazipro well, I've had much better luck only treating them with a 75% of the recommended dosage treatment.

02/28/2017, 04:51 PM	#11
Swensos Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 149	Well, that's good to know. Especially since it's not going up. Tonight, the ammonia is the barely greenish yellow between 0 and .25ppm. And my lubbock's wrasse came out for a minute in the morning to say hi. He still looks like ****, but it's an improvement. Thank you everyone for the emotional support while I dealt with this crisis. Panicked aquarists usually do more harm than good.

02/28/2017, 04:58 PM	#12
Swensos Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 149	And I decided to feed a teeny tiny bit of food right now soaked in selcon. My wrasse shot out of the rocks like a bullet to get some! I guess his days of living under a rock are temporarily paused! Score!

03/01/2017, 10:33 AM	#13
scooter31707 Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2015 Location: Virginia Posts: 4,971	I have also learned that it takes awhile for Wrasses to get use to their new environment.

03/01/2017, 04:41 PM	#14
Swensos Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2015 Location: Brooklyn, NY Posts: 149	0 ammonia and 0 nitrites today. I made it. The lubbock's wrasse was actually swimming around in the water column and never hid until the ammonia spike. He actually encouraged the fang blenny to come out, because he was fearless and eating well for weeks.