STOP Selling These Species! (rant)

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by Code4

The way I see it is we are all responsible. If there is not a market for it they will not sale it. Education is the only way. It is up to the consumer, us, to know what we are buying. Do not impulse buy! Period! I went to my LFS, almost 4 hours one way, to get a male green mandarin. The store employee tried to explain to me that the one I wanted was a female. Told me it did not have the long top fin of a male. I pointed out to the newbie employee that the females are much smaller, and that the "topfin" was simple lying down on his back. I hope he learned something. And my new mandarin is now fat. Thanks to Paul's feeder, copepods and the fact that this little guy loves tiny bits of clam! Just lucky on that.

It would be great if all LFS were in it first for the love of the hobby. Not the dollar. Well it is late, hopefully I have not offended anyone in my tired state,

Shelley

You must understand that the LFS (Like any Business) is a Business.

They must make money or they will be out of business.

Look at how many LFS (At least in my area) fail.

Why because they are run by Hobbyists with no business sense and they get run into the ground.

Yes, it is great to be a hobbyist but at the end of the day the old saying goes Love Doesn't Pay the Bills.

So please keep that in mind.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by mets17127

Solution: it's the smart phone age, so there is no excuse for not searching info on an impulse buy while standing at the LFS. There should be a sign in every LFS that says "research all information given to you today online while you wait". That promotes reputable stores, knowledgable staff, and informed consumers while eliminating impulse buys and shady business practices.

That is not going to happen.

If they put up a sign like that people would also be researching the price and then not buy anything since (Unless they are extremely impatient) the LFS charges more than places online do.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by CODE3EMT

Wow.............. when did having a fish tank, just mean..... having a fish tank. Your either enjoy it as a hobby or you don't. You either like aquariums or you like golf, You either have tons of cash to throw down on an ELOS system or your poor and you have a 55 gallon you got from Petco, you either have FOWLR or live corals, You either have LED's or metal halides, sump or no sump, sand or bare bottom, R/O or tap water, damsels to cycle a tank or fish less cycle, mandarin dragonet that eats pellets or mandarin dragonet that is starving, keeping tangs or getting yelled at for having them, additives that work or additives that are just snake oil, fish that should be sold or fish that should be banned. Jesus..... it almost makes the hobby unenjoyable really.

I thought this forum was about learning how to keep a successful marine aquarium and enjoying it?

Spend more time enjoying the hobby and less time trying to re-invent it......

Good Point.

I am glad that you posted this.

[that Fish Guy]

Originally Posted by grizzlymint

If a store tried to tell me I cant buy something because they dont think im worthy, id start calling a lawyer for discrimination. The store worker doesnt know me or anything about me, it would be bad business as well as disrespectful for them to do anything other than "recommend" certain items.

I dont think the LFS landlord cares if they told 10 people not to buy that damsel last month if theyre short on rent.

Does best buy tell you not to buy that surround system because your living room is too small or the waitress tell you that you cannot order 5 hamburgers because youll only eat 3 of them?

Well the Difference (And a big one at that is) they are selling living animals not inanimate objects.

It is not right to kill living things just because you want them and have no regard for life.

[grizzlymint]

What is "right" and wrong is very subjective. That cheeseburger maybe inanimate now..... point is they would have an impossible task of staying in business if it was their responsibility if you can take care of an animal.

Guess you should never be allowed to buy coral either.
Guarenteed that fish guy has a coral graveyard from alk swings or new lights or some other random factor like a power outtage.

We kill things in our hobby. Lets stop pretending we dont just because we are on a forum.

[LauraGreenImp]

Originally Posted by grizzlymint

What is "right" and wrong is very subjective. That cheeseburger maybe inanimate now..... point is they would have an impossible task of staying in business if it was their responsibility if you can take care of an animal.

Guess you should never be allowed to buy coral either.
Guarenteed that fish guy has a coral graveyard from alk swings or new lights or some other random factor like a power outtage.

We kill things in our hobby. Lets stop pretending we dont just because we are on a forum.

Cheeseburger. *perfect example*! I was raised on a working farm, we went to the (2hr drive away) ‘grocery’ for spices, sugar, salt, flour *only*. Everything else we ate we harvested, killed, hunted, etc. Now I’m vegan, bc I can afford to be.

I was VERY STUPID when I made the leap from 40+ yrs of FW tanks to SW.

I listened to very bad advice, and didn’t do my due diligence. Although I am an elderly geek & well versed in the net, I didn’t even *think* abt going to a reef forum.

I ended up w 150g *tall* (super hard to clean/maintain physically), *no sump*, cheap/poor lighting, an itty bitty *hippo tang*, yellow T, foxface. For 4 yrs, I watched many, many other creatures die w the exception of the OG ‘Terrible Trio’. 3yrs ago - a miracle. New neighbor *just happened* to be superX SW hobbyist who was starting tiny reef shop w his buddy (on the side, they have ‘real’ jobs).

Now I have Kessils, sump, been lurking here for a while. My neighbor & his fam have keys to our house, reef life is better here. All this costs $$$$, though, and I’m not made of money, so it’s improved slowly.

Everyone on here is human, IME humans are kinda stupid. I understand why those w vast experience get frustrated w those of us who make poor decisions, then come on here begging for help.

And what about my Hippo Tang??? He’s 6” now - apparently, he grows an inch a year. Pretty soon my ‘Terrible Trio’ will outgrow this tank...

I wish humans were more responsible across the board, but most of us are just murderers in one way or another.

Regardless, I thought this was an interesting thread w many valid opinions - so, thanks OP!

[Bent]

Originally Posted by grizzlymint

What is "right" and wrong is very subjective. That cheeseburger maybe inanimate now..... point is they would have an impossible task of staying in business if it was their responsibility if you can take care of an animal.

Guess you should never be allowed to buy coral either.
Guarenteed that fish guy has a coral graveyard from alk swings or new lights or some other random factor like a power outtage.

We kill things in our hobby. Lets stop pretending we dont just because we are on a forum.

Indeed.

I’d hate to see my body count, all for the sake of....because caging animals in a glass box is fun.

[MurphyLong]

I'm glad this thread was brought back from the dead, because I recently posted a comment on another thread about a place about 90 minutes from my house that I drive to for fish/coral, simply because of their ethics, over any of the other 6 or 7 Fish Shops closer to me.

My first time in, I was engaged in conversation by an employee. He wasn't interrogating me in an aggressive manner, just simply asking about my tank. How big? How long have I been in the hobby? What kind of fish/coral/inverts do I have? What do I use for lighting? I initially thought he was trying to set me up to sell me stuff, but as I was just walking around and loving how amazing every single creature he had looked, he said "Sorry about all the questions, we just want to make sure people don't make misinformed purchases, and we won't sell someone that won't thrive in their environment."

Now, I was initially kinda miffed, thinking "Who the heck does this guy think he is, telling me that he's gonna decide what I can't buy??" Then I let it sink in, and he was doing what I just WISH someone had done when I started this hobby 15 years ago. They look out for their livestock, and that's EXACTLY why I'm going back there this weekend. I had visited another shop near them the first time I went, and they had a 20 gallon tank with at least 50 baby clowns in it, selling them for $8 a piece. I was so mad about it, I just left and went back to the other place that very clearly cares.

[Zalick]

Originally Posted by MurphyLong

.

Now, I was initially kinda miffed, thinking "Who the heck does this guy think he is, telling me that he's gonna decide what I can't buy??" Then I let it sink in, and he was doing what I just WISH someone had done when I started this hobby 15 years ago. They look out for their livestock, and that's EXACTLY why I'm going back there this weekend. I had visited another shop near them the first time I went, and they had a 20 gallon tank with at least 50 baby clowns in it, selling them for $8 a piece. I was so mad about it, I just left and went back to the other place that very clearly cares.

If anyone has ever tried to purchase a pure bred dog, or rescue for that matter, they usually have an application process and sometimes ask for referrals. We don't bat an eye at that because its a mammal/dog and we love them. Fish on the other hand....

We have a new LFS in Portland that practices sustainable practices to the best of its ability. I know a few importers and their survival rates from catch to living in the LFS is about 80%-90% based upon the harvesters they use.

As an avid scuba diver, I spend a few weeks every year diving tropical reefs all over the world. In general, the aquarium trade is extremely destructive on the reefs and it breaks my heart. I am personally torn between my love for the natural reef and my love for the hobby. If we all are willing to pay more for tank bred fish, the tank bred program will continue advancing and some day we may be able to get 99% of our fish/coral/inverts as wholly tank bred.

As a side note: In Oregon if you purchase a puppy and fail to feed it the proper food so it starves to death, or if you have 40 cats in your house that are malnourished and living in squalid conditions, you can get charged with animal neglect II. Food for thought...

[OrionN]

We are living in the information age. The information are out there for those who looks. Most LFS are out there to sell fish.
If you are willing to spend 4 hrs of your 8 hrs work day to do hard work so that you check can be cut by 50% then you have the tight to criticize LFS owner about selling fish that people want to buy.

There are people who keep on buying things that they cannot keep, but most will do it a time or two, then either learn or get out of the hobby.

[FoxFace Fish]

Honestly I wish when I first started I knew about you guys. And I really wish I had a helpful LFS employee not someone who is just trying to sell me something.

I will admit I worked at my LFS my first job actually because I love fish but as I worked there and saw how they were treated got me so upset. The worst part is when I tried to bring it up to the owner they threatened me with termination. Not gunna lie I quit as soon as they did that.

But you guys are right I wish people would pay a little extra for captive breed I know I do when I can and I ask my store I drive an extra 40 minutes to go to if there fish are and it’s really cool because they try there best to get only captive breed fish in and coral just food for thought I figured I got a turn to rant