Do filter socks catch ich? - Page 2

SkyPapa · 03/23/2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by discocarp

Theronts are what you would need to catch and they are 25um by 60um on average. And of course, that assumes they all actually go into the overflow.

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

Well, this guy calls those things you are talking about as "tomites".
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Repr...umr/crypto.htm

LOL, this is always fun .

goldmaniac · 03/23/2010, 11:37 AM

Short version: hypo is not a guarantee. in my display, I have a salinity-tolerant strain of Ich.

Long version:

I took all fish out of my display for 3 months. during that time, i brought my QT tank down to 1.009 salinity, and kept it there for 7+ weeks. Confirmed salinity with calibrated refractometer and two brands of hydrometer. I didn't use copper due to having tangs, which i've found to be very sensitive to Cu, i.e. one of the fish was a hippo tang.

Switched the QT'ed fish into a 2nd QT tank that started as fresh RO/DI water for 2 weeks before I added salt to the 2nd QT system. the QT'ed fish then showed signs of ich, i'm guessing an outbreak from the stress of switching tanks.

No other fish added during this time.

discocarp · 03/23/2010, 11:39 AM

My understanding is that tomites and theronts are the same thing (different authors use each word), but both are different from trophonts, which are the form that is on the fish once infected.

discocarp · 03/23/2010, 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goldmaniac

Short version: hypo is not a guarantee. in my display, I have a salinity-tolerant strain of Ich.

Long version:

I took all fish out of my display for 3 months. during that time, i brought my QT tank down to 1.009 salinity, and kept it there for 7+ weeks. Confirmed salinity with calibrated refractometer and two brands of hydrometer. I didn't use copper due to having tangs, which i've found to be very sensitive to Cu, i.e. one of the fish was a hippo tang.

Switched the QT'ed fish into a 2nd QT tank that started as fresh RO/DI water for 2 weeks before I added salt to the 2nd QT system. the QT'ed fish then showed signs of ich, i'm guessing an outbreak from the stress of switching tanks.

No other fish added during this time.

I've heard this from others too, and that was an argument for using copper or transfer method over hyposalinity. Personally I never had a problem with hypo.

Puffer Chick · 03/23/2010, 11:51 AM

currently experienceing ick myself on two fish that were added last week, i have a filter sock in my DT, i have it over the output of my HOB skimmer to stop the microbubbles, i dont think this thing catches ick but it gets NASTY it collects so much gunk in the water column im always having to wash and change it out every two days.

Just from my experience the ick in my tank has only hopped onto my fish that are stressed, out of 6 i only have two fish that have it and it's because their new one is already clearing up and the other still has it. I dont have any ick treatment or QT i just use garlic with my daily feedings. And i just let the ick ride its course

Scungili · 03/23/2010, 06:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Masoch

But, seriously, this is one of the nastiest myths in the hobby.

Ich is freakin' easy to treat in a QT with Cupramine. Ich /requires/ a fish host otherwise its life cycle gets interrupted and it dies off.

A tank left fishless for 6 weeks, simply, will not have ich.

Fish treated properly with Cupramine in a QT for 2 weeks will not have ich.

If you leave a tank fishless for 6 weeks then is it safe to assume all the Ich has died? Therefore it can no longer come back unless you introduce some from a new fish.

or

Does it just go dormant for a while, in which case, you would never permanetly get rid of it, whether you get new fish or not.

So which is correct. Thanks.

jenglish · 03/23/2010, 07:16 PM

It is an obligate parasite, it needs fish to complete it's cycle and has a limited amount of time it can lay encysted in substrate. There is one documented case of a complete ich cycle lasting 72 days but that was at colder temps than standard aquaria.

Tomont and theront are different stages, this quick guide is taken from Chuck's Addiction http://www.chucksaddiction.com/index.html
1 : TOMONT STAGE: This is where the parasite forms a membrane while attached to the substrate and goes into its reproductive mode, this can take from 3 to 28 days depending on the temperature of the water.
2 : THERONT STAGE: This is where the newly hatched parasite is free swimming in the water and is looking for a fish to attach to. It only has between 24 to 48 hours to do so or else it will die.
3 : TROPHONT STAGE: This is the adult parasite which is attached to a fish and actively feeding and the one that we can visibly see on a fish. This stage lives from 3 to 7 days.
4 : TROPHONT FREE SWIMMING: This is where the parasite has dropped off of the fish and is free swimming within the water looking for a suitable place to attach to so that it can form itself into the Tomont or reproductive stage, which can take up to 18 hours.

Masoch · 03/24/2010, 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scungili

If you leave a tank fishless for 6 weeks then is it safe to assume all the Ich has died? Therefore it can no longer come back unless you introduce some from a new fish.

or

Does it just go dormant for a while, in which case, you would never permanetly get rid of it, whether you get new fish or not.

So which is correct. Thanks.

Ich doesn't /ever/ go dormant.

If you leave a tank fishless for 6 weeks, ich will die out.

Period.

Not go dormant. Die. Dead. Finito. No longer with us. Deceased. Departed. Passed on. In short, snuffed it.

UFB · 03/24/2010, 06:28 AM

I just added a 100micron sock to my sump .. it sure doesn't take long for them to get filled with stuff that you don't even see :-)

tonypittman · 12/29/2012, 01:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nexenn

Yeah, I bought a UV, just not sure if I should put it in my sump past the filter sock or have it pumped straight from the display.

I'm aware the QT is the only effective way to eliminate ich. That wasn't what I asked in the thread. The thread is titled "DO FILTER SOCKS CATCH ICH?" All other debates should be left to another thread please.

I have a 90 gallon tank with 30g Sump that is fully stocked tank in terms of fish and plenty of coral. Trying to get the fish out and in a Quarantine Tank for 8 weeks is ridiculous IMO. It would take an additional 90 gallon full of hiding spots to not stress the crap out of them and I dont have space, time resources etc.

Nexenn,this was just too good to let stay buried. Nice post...many of us can certainly relate. I have a 95 gallon tank, and have been on and off of this same ride for the tanks 6+ years. It seems that ich always finds a way. I have been using QT + copper. But still, stressed fish = ich outbreak. I've conceded the fact that this parasite is almost impossible to keep away for good. I just try to control its level of mayhem by focusing on good water quality, great diets for the fish, and good water flow.

Trailermann · 06/18/2015, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ajolie30

buy yourself a diatom filter they catch the free swimmimg stage of ich buy yourself a good supply of diatom powder and u will be all set change the filter every 4 to 5 days recharge it with fresh diatom powder they work wonders aquarium guys have them the cheapest

Hello Ajoili,
You mentioned several years ago how fine filters can catch ich. that is intriguing. What do you base this statement on?

I would like to siphon and filter some of the water from the first Transfer tank into the fresh Transfer tank when using the TTM approach.

reefgeezer · 06/18/2015, 12:21 PM

To disregard all the other concerns and answer the OP's question simply... Yes, a filter sock will catch anything that enters it that won't pass through its mesh. So, a 25 um sock or a diatom filter will probably catch "Ich". A 100 um or larger filter sock most likely won't.

Please don't read this as saying that Ick can be treated with filter socks or a diatom filter. I'm just answering the OP's question.

jazzmanb · 06/18/2015, 12:53 PM

I Actually AGREE that all tanks have ich. YUP yours too, it doesnt matter if you querentine. Ive had numerous friends that quernetine and have big reefs and thought they were ich free. All it will take is for your fish to comfortable, stress free and you change and rearrange your rocks. I dont mean a subtle rework of aquascape but a complete redo, Ehere the fish lose there terroritories...More then likely,your once ich free by sight tank will show mild signs of ich on a few of your sensitive fish, from here on out it will either escalate or neutralize. All fish you bring home from another tank or store will be stressed and put your system at risk instantly. Thats why querentine is great. it cures the stressed animals before going into our main displays...Please dont test my method by changing your whole tank around because while you think your tank is ich free, it isnt...Its just not severe and your fish arnt stressed enough!!

jazzmanb · 06/18/2015, 12:57 PM

You could also completly reverse a crazy ich outbreak by feeding garlic and seaweed and vitamin c and by not sticking your hand in the tank, moving rocks, coral etc and stressing out your fish...Without a stressed fish, the ich will not thrive.

jazzmanb · 06/18/2015, 01:00 PM

I honestly think people often get hung up on reading about everything from the internet. Youd be surprised what you learn from experience and talking to other close friends experience in the hobby..I often find it contradicts what common answers are currently out there. Ich especially

Sk8r · 06/18/2015, 01:02 PM

Without a FISH the ich will not thrive. A fish with a good slime coat may resist, in which all the above may help a bit, but if it is a strong strain of ich, the chance it will infest and go on is real high.

'I don't need to quarantine' is the saltwater equivalent of 'here, hold mah beer...'

jazzmanb · 06/18/2015, 01:05 PM

well of course....lol...If you truly dont want ich,ever.. go fishless..

Sk8r · 06/18/2015, 01:08 PM

I believe the OP's question is somewhat inspired by the sticky thread on TTM, or possibly rumors from TTM, and the answer is probably, but laundering your filter sock every 72 hours is not a cure.

nuxx · 06/18/2015, 03:10 PM

Just read here today that ich can fly... so apparently nothing can stop it!

ridetheducati · 06/18/2015, 05:21 PM

I wish there was a way to flag or label threads that contain misinformation. It could save someone a lot of time.

bluefronted · 05/30/2018, 03:36 AM

Corals and Invertebrates not QT properly can introduce Itch to the system also. They might not host the ITCH but some spots might just cling onto them for a short period between transfers i.m.o

steallife904 · 05/30/2018, 07:57 AM

I also wonder if you dropped a bag of charcoal in the filter sock would it catch some or be beneficial at all???

I have battled ICH more than once. Most of the time I just provided garlic or vitamin C in the fish food for a week to help them fight it off... I did however have a case a few years ago that killed all but 1 fish. So its a 50/50. I have since purchased a UV (not a cheap one) that I drop in and run for a week anytime I add something new. Cant say it helps or not but it makes me feel better

03/23/2010, 11:51 AM	#30
Puffer Chick Registered Member Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Orange County, CA Posts: 38	currently experienceing ick myself on two fish that were added last week, i have a filter sock in my DT, i have it over the output of my HOB skimmer to stop the microbubbles, i dont think this thing catches ick but it gets NASTY it collects so much gunk in the water column im always having to wash and change it out every two days. Just from my experience the ick in my tank has only hopped onto my fish that are stressed, out of 6 i only have two fish that have it and it's because their new one is already clearing up and the other still has it. I dont have any ick treatment or QT i just use garlic with my daily feedings. And i just let the ick ride its course __________________ 46 gallon bowfront: SPECS: octo bh 800s skimmer; vortech mp20; T5HO Tek; 40lbs lr; 60lbs ls LIVESTOCK: 2 b&w clowns; chromis; McCoskers flasher wrasse; 2 female pink margin fairy wrasses INVERTS: typical CUC blue tux urchin; emerald crab; cleaner shrimp Coral: zoas, bubble coral, brain, birdsnest, candy cane 20G Nano Fowlr: Green Spotted Puffer l; 20lbs FBR; Koralia Nano Current Tank Info: I have two tanks, one is a 46 bowfront reef and I have a 20 Gallon Nano FOWLR

03/23/2010, 07:16 PM	#32
jenglish Marquis de Carabas Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Evansville, IN Posts: 2,523	It is an obligate parasite, it needs fish to complete it's cycle and has a limited amount of time it can lay encysted in substrate. There is one documented case of a complete ich cycle lasting 72 days but that was at colder temps than standard aquaria. Tomont and theront are different stages, this quick guide is taken from Chuck's Addiction http://www.chucksaddiction.com/index.html 1 : TOMONT STAGE: This is where the parasite forms a membrane while attached to the substrate and goes into its reproductive mode, this can take from 3 to 28 days depending on the temperature of the water. 2 : THERONT STAGE: This is where the newly hatched parasite is free swimming in the water and is looking for a fish to attach to. It only has between 24 to 48 hours to do so or else it will die. 3 : TROPHONT STAGE: This is the adult parasite which is attached to a fish and actively feeding and the one that we can visibly see on a fish. This stage lives from 3 to 7 days. 4 : TROPHONT FREE SWIMMING: This is where the parasite has dropped off of the fish and is free swimming within the water looking for a suitable place to attach to so that it can form itself into the Tomont or reproductive stage, which can take up to 18 hours. __________________ Jeremy Brown liquor never hurt anybody “Je n'ai pas besoin de cette hypothèse" Pierre-Simon Laplace I should want to cook him a simple meal, but I shouldn't want to cut into him, to tear the flesh, to wear the flesh, to be born unto new worlds where his flesh becomes my key. Current Tank Info: broken and dry

06/18/2015, 12:21 PM	#37
reefgeezer Registered Member Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Wichita KS Posts: 2,621	To disregard all the other concerns and answer the OP's question simply... Yes, a filter sock will catch anything that enters it that won't pass through its mesh. So, a 25 um sock or a diatom filter will probably catch "Ich". A 100 um or larger filter sock most likely won't. Please don't read this as saying that Ick can be treated with filter socks or a diatom filter. I'm just answering the OP's question. __________________ John, Current Tank Info: In-process, 90 Gallon SPS Reef

06/18/2015, 01:02 PM	#41
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	Without a FISH the ich will not thrive. A fish with a good slime coat may resist, in which all the above may help a bit, but if it is a strong strain of ich, the chance it will infest and go on is real high. 'I don't need to quarantine' is the saltwater equivalent of 'here, hold mah beer...' __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

06/18/2015, 01:08 PM	#43
Sk8r RC Mod Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Spokane WA Posts: 34,628 Blog Entries: 55	I believe the OP's question is somewhat inspired by the sticky thread on TTM, or possibly rumors from TTM, and the answer is probably, but laundering your filter sock every 72 hours is not a cure. __________________ Sk8r Salinity 1.024-6; alkalinity 8.3-9.3 on KH scale; calcium 420; magnesium 1300, temp 78-80, nitrate .2. Ammonia 0. No filters: lps tank. Alk and cal won't rise if mg is low. Current Tank Info: 105g AquaVim wedge, yellow tang, sailfin blenny,royal gramma, ocellaris clown pair, yellow watchman, 100 microceriths, 25 tiny hermits, a 4" conch, 1" nassarius, recovering from 2 year hiatus with daily water change of 10%.

03/23/2010, 11:37 AM	#27
goldmaniac Registered Member Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Yardley, PA Posts: 1,567	Short version: hypo is not a guarantee. in my display, I have a salinity-tolerant strain of Ich. Long version: I took all fish out of my display for 3 months. during that time, i brought my QT tank down to 1.009 salinity, and kept it there for 7+ weeks. Confirmed salinity with calibrated refractometer and two brands of hydrometer. I didn't use copper due to having tangs, which i've found to be very sensitive to Cu, i.e. one of the fish was a hippo tang. Switched the QT'ed fish into a 2nd QT tank that started as fresh RO/DI water for 2 weeks before I added salt to the 2nd QT system. the QT'ed fish then showed signs of ich, i'm guessing an outbreak from the stress of switching tanks. No other fish added during this time.

03/23/2010, 11:39 AM	#28
discocarp Registered Member Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Winter Park, FL Posts: 2,707	My understanding is that tomites and theronts are the same thing (different authors use each word), but both are different from trophonts, which are the form that is on the fish once infected.

03/24/2010, 06:28 AM	#34
UFB Moved On Join Date: Mar 2010 Posts: 4	I just added a 100micron sock to my sump .. it sure doesn't take long for them to get filled with stuff that you don't even see :-)

06/18/2015, 12:53 PM	#38
jazzmanb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: san francisco,ca Posts: 508	I Actually AGREE that all tanks have ich. YUP yours too, it doesnt matter if you querentine. Ive had numerous friends that quernetine and have big reefs and thought they were ich free. All it will take is for your fish to comfortable, stress free and you change and rearrange your rocks. I dont mean a subtle rework of aquascape but a complete redo, Ehere the fish lose there terroritories...More then likely,your once ich free by sight tank will show mild signs of ich on a few of your sensitive fish, from here on out it will either escalate or neutralize. All fish you bring home from another tank or store will be stressed and put your system at risk instantly. Thats why querentine is great. it cures the stressed animals before going into our main displays...Please dont test my method by changing your whole tank around because while you think your tank is ich free, it isnt...Its just not severe and your fish arnt stressed enough!!

06/18/2015, 12:57 PM	#39
jazzmanb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: san francisco,ca Posts: 508	You could also completly reverse a crazy ich outbreak by feeding garlic and seaweed and vitamin c and by not sticking your hand in the tank, moving rocks, coral etc and stressing out your fish...Without a stressed fish, the ich will not thrive.

06/18/2015, 01:00 PM	#40
jazzmanb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: san francisco,ca Posts: 508	I honestly think people often get hung up on reading about everything from the internet. Youd be surprised what you learn from experience and talking to other close friends experience in the hobby..I often find it contradicts what common answers are currently out there. Ich especially

06/18/2015, 01:05 PM	#42
jazzmanb Registered Member Join Date: Sep 2006 Location: san francisco,ca Posts: 508	well of course....lol...If you truly dont want ich,ever.. go fishless..

06/18/2015, 03:10 PM	#44
nuxx RC Sponsor Join Date: Jan 2014 Location: Austin, Tx Posts: 3,990	Just read here today that ich can fly... so apparently nothing can stop it! __________________ Peter TankStop - Fish and Coral 470G Display - Build Thread Current Tank Info: Retired - 470 Gallon Mixed Reef (120x29x31")

06/18/2015, 05:21 PM	#45
ridetheducati 20 and Over Club Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Bowie, MD Posts: 2,968	I wish there was a way to flag or label threads that contain misinformation. It could save someone a lot of time. __________________ "Send more paramedics" Current Tank Info: 300g DD, SPS dominated, Apex, Tunze 6125s, ATB 1050, 400w MH, and Geo 618 Ca Reactor

05/30/2018, 03:36 AM	#46
bluefronted Registered Member Join Date: Mar 2018 Posts: 8	Corals and Invertebrates not QT properly can introduce Itch to the system also. They might not host the ITCH but some spots might just cling onto them for a short period between transfers i.m.o

05/30/2018, 07:57 AM	#47
steallife904 Registered Member Join Date: Apr 2015 Location: Jacksonville, FL Posts: 944	I also wonder if you dropped a bag of charcoal in the filter sock would it catch some or be beneficial at all??? I have battled ICH more than once. Most of the time I just provided garlic or vitamin C in the fish food for a week to help them fight it off... I did however have a case a few years ago that killed all but 1 fish. So its a 50/50. I have since purchased a UV (not a cheap one) that I drop in and run for a week anytime I add something new. Cant say it helps or not but it makes me feel better