Paly toxin question

[nathanemmerich]

I have some nuclear green palys I want gone. Can I pluck some off the rock and kill the rest with kalk paste? Is it dangerous to damage them under water?

[reefling]

Get a flat head screw driver and pry them from the rocks. Sometimes they peel up like carpet. I wear nitrile gloves as well.

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[nathanemmerich]

Will the paly toxin released during this process be dangerous? Where will it go?

[reefling]

Not all zoas have palytoxin. When I frag zoas, I do it in my tank so it stays in a very low concentration.

Originally Posted by nathanemmerich

Will the paly toxin released during this process be dangerous? Where will it go?

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[nathanemmerich]

Yes. Nuclear green protopalythoa have the highest amount. That is why I’m asking.

[billdogg]

And IMO, it is smart of you to be asking. If you try to get rid of them in your tank then yes, palytoxin will probably be released into your system. Plenty of carbon and a good skimmer will go a long way in mitigating the problems you might encounter.

A better option is to either trade the rocks in to your LFS for whatever credit they will give you or to another local reefer.

To just rid yourself of them you should remove the rock from your tank wearing gloves and then just leave it out in the sun for a couple weeks to bake. Hose it off well afterwards and it will be ready to be put back into your tank.

FWIW - my in-tank exposure to them got me a trip to the Urgent Care, a visit to my PCP, and a week off work due to the open weeping blisters on my arms.

[swhobbie1]

If you remove it and put it outside I would put it where pets, animals or kids wont get into it

[nathanemmerich]

I have other corals on the rock so those options don't work. Can it be done safely in tank?

[homer1475]

As long as it's under water, your fine.



Listen before I even knew what palytoxin was I was ripping these things off the rocks with tweezers and throwing them in the trash can weekly. Never once was I affected, nor anyone in my household.



Palytoxin is often blown way out of proportion. Everybody's level of exposure is different, and how it effects everyone is different. If they were truly that dangerous(yes they can be that dangerous), you would certainly be reading more about people being poisoned then we do.



Typically if they are kept in water, and your not drinking that water, you'll be fine.

[Uncle99]

Originally Posted by homer1475

As long as it's under water, your fine.



Listen before I even knew what palytoxin was I was ripping these things off the rocks with tweezers and throwing them in the trash can weekly. Never once was I affected, nor anyone in my household.



Palytoxin is often blown way out of proportion. Everybody's level of exposure is different, and how it effects everyone is different. If they were truly that dangerous(yes they can be that dangerous), you would certainly be reading more about people being poisoned then we do.



Typically if they are kept in water, and your not drinking that water, you'll be fine.

I have to agree, I have also been doing the same for 25 years, never a problem.
My understanding is as long as you don't intake the toxin either orally or through a puncture in the skin, nothing to be overly concerned with.

So where a glove if your going to touch/hold it, dispose of it by sealing it in something, run carbon (I run carbon 24-7 anyway) and also, do not boil, or eat it....wash your hands throughly and do not rub your eyes, mouth or ears.

[nathanemmerich]

Thanks guys. Much appreciated, I won't freak out now. Under water it is.

[nathanemmerich]

Well I killed about 25 protopalythoa and I didn’t get sick yet.

[Timfish]

Originally Posted by homer1475

As long as it's under water, your fine.



Listen before I even knew what palytoxin was I was ripping these things off the rocks with tweezers and throwing them in the trash can weekly. Never once was I affected, nor anyone in my household.

Palytoxin is often blown way out of proportion. Everybody's level of exposure is different, and how it effects everyone is different. If they were truly that dangerous(yes they can be that dangerous), you would certainly be reading more about people being poisoned then we do.

Typically if they are kept in water, and your not drinking that water, you'll be fine.

+1 We do need to be careful and people experiences like Billdog's should certainly be given consideration but this paper found higher levels of palytoxin in soft corals than palys and we never hear about them causing problems

[shaginwagon13]

Originally Posted by billdogg

FWIW - my in-tank exposure to them got me a trip to the Urgent Care, a visit to my PCP, and a week off work due to the open weeping blisters on my arms.

You got a reaction from just having your hands/arms in the tank?!

I thought there was only a risk of reaction for having it contact your eyes/nose/mouth or breathe it in if you try and bake the LR with polyps on them.

This made the news up here 2 months ago:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...mily-1.4633810

[hkgar]

Three days in hospital for me. But I scrubbed them under running water in the sink

[shaginwagon13]

Originally Posted by hkgar

Three days in hospital for me. But I scrubbed them under running water in the sink

From just coming in contact? or did you inhale or ingest any of it?

[billdogg]

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

You got a reaction from just having your hands/arms in the tank?!

I thought there was only a risk of reaction for having it contact your eyes/nose/mouth or breathe it in if you try and bake the LR with polyps on them.

This made the news up here 2 months ago:
https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ottaw...mily-1.4633810

No, it was a bit more than that

I was tearing down a 60 cube whose single large rock was siliconed to the bottom and could not be removed. It was also completely covered in Beautiful dark green palys. In getting to the live stock on the bottom of the tank my forearm was mashing against them repeatedly. I think I mighta ****ed them off!

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by shaginwagon13

From just coming in contact? or did you inhale or ingest any of it?

Inhaled most likely as it started with a cough and advanced to shakes, tremors rapid pulse and breathing. Paramedics recorded BP of 200/110, At the hospital ALL vital signs were in red colors.

Just me, but it could be you. We may all react differently but you do not know. Oh, when I told the paramedics I thought Palytoxin and he googled it and said "Oh, ****. 2nd most deadly marine toxin."

Could it be you?

Me, I will never have them in my tank.

Palytoxin is one of the most potent toxins known to mankind and poses a high risk to humans through ingestion, inhalation and dermal routes

That is the first sentence here

[nathanemmerich]

Anyone know of a list of what has palytoxin and what doesn't?

[hkgar]

Originally Posted by nathanemmerich

Anyone know of a list of what has palytoxin and what doesn't?

The zoanthid species that are thought to contain the most palytoxin are the palythoa zoanthids, specifically the most toxic zoanthid species is thought to be Palythoa toxica–but as you may already be aware, it can be challenging even for experienced scientists to know the exact species of a zoanthid.

Read this very informative article

http://www.saltwateraquariumblog.com/palytoxin/